(03-31-2021, 08:02 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2021, 09:23 PM)Bchbunnie4 Wrote: [ -> ]They did the testing of the vaccine when we were under major lockdown situations. Do we really know how effective they are when exposed to Covid is more likely to happen?
They don't know a lot about this vaccine. Who's to say people don't develop symptoms that take a while to diagnose. It took over a year to link an uptick in narcolepsy to the H1N1 vaccine in Sweden. I can understand why the elderly or the immuno-compromised may want to take that risk. I just don't know why young, healthy people are getting this. The universal roll out of it still puzzles me. I mean, from a scientific perspective, not an economic one. There's money to be made, folks.
Young healthy people are at risk as well, it's a myth to think otherwise. In addition, young healthy people who continue to spread the virus endanger their less young, less healthy friends, familes and neighbors and make it harder for the population to achieve herd immunity.
Moreover, it's not entirely accurate to say there's "a lot" of unknows about the vaccines. For one, there are multiple vaccines and the manufacturers actually know quite a bit about them. There's a small risk associated with getting vaccinated sure but the alternate is to take an even greater risk.
Define risk. Because I think you and I have different definitions when it comes to viruses. The average life expectancy decrease for people under 50 is less than a day. Big whoop. Without all the media fan fare, in what world are you going to take a vaccine that was rushed through the process to save one day from your total life expectancy? You have a higher chance of dying from the flu if you're under 60. Over 60, your odds increase dramatically, which is also true for other groups like the morbidly obese and immunocompromised. Those people should be taking the vaccine, obviously. If the vaccine does what it is supposed to, it doesn't matter if young, healthy people spread it to the elderly because the vaccine will protect them, right?
They do not KNOW a "lot" about this vaccine. Period. They have study mRNA for years, but the longest human study on this vaccine is 10 months. It's the first vaccine to be rolled out using the new process and we're doing it universally. That doesn't sound like an overreaction to you? They definitely do not know the potential long term effects of it. It may be nothing, but why are young, healthy people taking it when they can and should wait. Common sense says we should observe it for a while.
To be fair, we're not sure of the long term risk of Covid, either. I think we'll find stuff down the line for it, also, but why roll the dice right now? The people who are eager to inject this into their system when they are otherwise young and healthy confound me.
The young people are getting it for the same reason people locked themselves away for months. MSM, social media and the medical community scared the [BLEEP] out of them. And now they're being told they can't fly without proof they got it, and hints of not being able to take a cab, use mass transit, shop, stay in a hotel, go to a restaurant, etc., are being circulated. Gov. DeSantis said FL will not have a vaccine passport requirement. How many Democrat led states will require one?
I'm with you. Those who are at risk should get the vaccine and the rest of us can go about our business knowing they're protected against the worst symptoms or illness. That's the point of any vaccine, right? Because I remember having chicken pox and measles as a kid even though I got those vaccines as a baby. My mom said it would have been much worse had I not been vaccinated.
Meh, I'll take my chances with something that's been developed by epidemiologists, doctors, and scientists, rather than something coming from a bat, or even worse a lab in Wuhan.
Also, there's a risk that a young person has a pre-existing condition and doesn't know it. One of my best friends dropped dead of a heart attack at age 33 out of no where. Was perfectly healthy and in good shape. Turned out he had a rare heart condition that had gone undetected, it happens.
Having said all of that, I don't care if everyone gets it or not, to each their own.
In my opinion the "lockdowns" and "mask mandates" are really not about "safety" and everything about control. Yes the China virus is serious and yes in some cases it could be deadly for some people. More and more I think people are getting the vaccine so that they can get on with their lives and "get back to normal".
As far as the vaccine and whether it's safe or effective, I don't know. I do know that after getting it I won't be getting it again. After the first shot there was no real problem. After the second shot I was sick and in bed for a day, and it took a few days before I felt "100%".
Regarding wearing a mask, I'll only do so if I "have to". If it is "encouraged" or "optional" I will not wear one.
I think control is a red herring of sorts. For the news, masks represent controversy, which makes money, but that divisiveness is useful to the powers that be because it's another issue that can put everyone in an "us" vs "them" scenario. In that regard, it's a form of control, but not in some sinister cabal like fashion. If you follow the money, all of these just seems like the biproduct of broken, crony capitalism. The lockdowns and vaccine have directly increased the wealth of many very large, very powerful companies. I am growing increasingly suspicious of policies that benefit the elite. The more I research things on my own, the more I feel like the majority of us are being played against each other for the benefit of the few. I am sympathetic towards the "socialists" in this country, even if I think it is going to cause significantly more problems than it will fix. That said, capitalism in this country is also broken, and I think we need to be uniting against the ultra wealthy.
The irony of those large and powerful companies benefiting is they are owned by white liberal elitists who are practically worshipped by the liberals and progressives for their inclusiveness and diversity.
I guess its okay to be wealthy white male liberal elitists as long as you promote inclusion and diversity.
(03-31-2021, 03:50 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Define risk. Because I think you and I have different definitions when it comes to viruses. The average life expectancy decrease for people under 50 is less than a day. Big whoop. Without all the media fan fare, in what world are you going to take a vaccine that was rushed through the process to save one day from your total life expectancy? You have a higher chance of dying from the flu if you're under 60. Over 60, your odds increase dramatically, which is also true for other groups like the morbidly obese and immunocompromised. Those people should be taking the vaccine, obviously. If the vaccine does what it is supposed to, it doesn't matter if young, healthy people spread it to the elderly because the vaccine will protect them, right?
They do not KNOW a "lot" about this vaccine. Period. They have study mRNA for years, but the longest human study on this vaccine is 10 months. It's the first vaccine to be rolled out using the new process and we're doing it universally. That doesn't sound like an overreaction to you? They definitely do not know the potential long term effects of it. It may be nothing, but why are young, healthy people taking it when they can and should wait. Common sense says we should observe it for a while.
To be fair, we're not sure of the long term risk of Covid, either. I think we'll find stuff down the line for it, also, but why roll the dice right now? The people who are eager to inject this into their system when they are otherwise young and healthy confound me.
The long term issues are definitely the reason people should wait. A lot of animals died from organ failure after getting mRNA tests. I'm not putting something that is experimental in me unless regularly available treatments aren't available. There are several treatments now that lower risks greatly.
If you are older and at risk, guess what? Introducing an untested vaccine to your body with whatever other medications or issues you have isn't a great idea. The vaccine may do more harm to your treatment for your other stuff and cause you to have issues or worse die. If you are older but don't have other health issues then why take it? You survived this long without it so why not take your vitamins and let all the test subjects figure it out.
I'm not an anti-vaccer(sp?) but I don't see a need to rush out and get something that hasn't been tested. There are plenty of studies that show masks did nothing, numbers drop in Texas, Florida, etc after they open back up. There is just no rush for.
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You gloom and doomers are always so negative. I look at the bright side of things.
This third arm I grew since getting vaccinated is handy (pun exquisitely intended) for opening doors when the other two are full. Embrace the possibilities.
(04-01-2021, 06:23 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]You gloom and doomers are always so negative. I look at the bright side of things.
This third arm I grew since getting vaccinated is handy (pun exquisitely intended) for opening doors when the other two are full. Embrace the possibilities.
There have been more deaths in roughly 100 days from the vaccine (those are ones they actually admit are from it) than any other vaccine in use since the 60s.
So a vaccine for a virus that isn't very lethal now is killing people and has no long term testing. I'll let the people that think they really need it go first and 18 months later we can see if they are still good and if covid is even still around.
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(04-01-2021, 10:24 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2021, 06:23 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]You gloom and doomers are always so negative. I look at the bright side of things.
This third arm I grew since getting vaccinated is handy (pun exquisitely intended) for opening doors when the other two are full. Embrace the possibilities.
There have been more deaths in roughly 100 days from the vaccine (those are ones they actually admit are from it) than any other vaccine in use since the 60s.
So a vaccine for a virus that isn't very lethal now is killing people and has no long term testing. I'll let the people that think they really need it go first and 18 months later we can see if they are still good and if covid is even still around.
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Well, yes...except completely no.
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-no-link...a-56458746
FTA:
For people who don't read past the headlines, a concerning narrative has appeared: "15 Deaths After Coronavirus Vaccination," "Deaths at Care Home After Coronavirus Vaccine," "Volunteer in Vaccine Trial Dies After COVID-19 Vaccine."
In each case, there has been more to the story than meets the eye. DW reviewed reports from Italy, Austria, South Korea, Germany, Spain, the United States, Norway, Belgium and Peru, finding that in most cases health authorities have not found causal links between the vaccination and deaths.
Of course you'll claim they are lying, but no proof will suffice when no proof will suffice.
(04-01-2021, 11:21 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2021, 10:24 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]There have been more deaths in roughly 100 days from the vaccine (those are ones they actually admit are from it) than any other vaccine in use since the 60s.
So a vaccine for a virus that isn't very lethal now is killing people and has no long term testing. I'll let the people that think they really need it go first and 18 months later we can see if they are still good and if covid is even still around.
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Well, yes...except completely no.
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-no-link...a-56458746
FTA:
For people who don't read past the headlines, a concerning narrative has appeared: "15 Deaths After Coronavirus Vaccination," "Deaths at Care Home After Coronavirus Vaccine," "Volunteer in Vaccine Trial Dies After COVID-19 Vaccine."
In each case, there has been more to the story than meets the eye. DW reviewed reports from Italy, Austria, South Korea, Germany, Spain, the United States, Norway, Belgium and Peru, finding that in most cases health authorities have not found causal links between the vaccination and deaths.
Of course you'll claim they are lying, but no proof will suffice when no proof will suffice.
Do your own research instead of listening to people who tell you what to think.
https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html
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Does anyone here plan to inject their children with this vaccine?
(04-01-2021, 11:32 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2021, 11:21 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Well, yes...except completely no.
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-no-link...a-56458746
FTA:
For people who don't read past the headlines, a concerning narrative has appeared: "15 Deaths After Coronavirus Vaccination," "Deaths at Care Home After Coronavirus Vaccine," "Volunteer in Vaccine Trial Dies After COVID-19 Vaccine."
In each case, there has been more to the story than meets the eye. DW reviewed reports from Italy, Austria, South Korea, Germany, Spain, the United States, Norway, Belgium and Peru, finding that in most cases health authorities have not found causal links between the vaccination and deaths.
Of course you'll claim they are lying, but no proof will suffice when no proof will suffice.
Do your own research instead of listening to people who tell you what to think.
https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html
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Lol, you mean like from your own link?
- To date, VAERS has not detected patterns in cause of death that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.
and
Over 145 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.
I absolutely agree with you and your source.
(04-01-2021, 02:35 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2021, 02:28 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone here plan to inject their children with this vaccine?
Or your pets?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56602311
I am just curious if there are any people reluctant to give children who are already at an extremely low risk of being impacted by COVID-19 a vaccine that has no long-term test results.
Could cause infertility in females. Might even be a controlled form of population control by our government.
(04-01-2021, 03:18 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2021, 02:35 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Or your pets?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56602311
I am just curious if there are any people reluctant to give children who are already at an extremely low risk of being impacted by COVID-19 a vaccine that has no long-term test results.
Could cause infertility in females. Might even be a controlled form of population control by our government.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/J20Z2SH5WmCnzSrbqA/giphy.gif)
(04-01-2021, 03:18 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2021, 02:35 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Or your pets?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56602311
I am just curious if there are any people reluctant to give children who are already at an extremely low risk of being impacted by COVID-19 a vaccine that has no long-term test results.
Could cause infertility in females. Might even be a controlled form of population control by our government.
You’re not serious are you? And do you believe Trump is still in office but the government just won’t tell us?!
(04-01-2021, 03:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2021, 11:32 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Do your own research instead of listening to people who tell you what to think.
https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html
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Lol, you mean like from your own link?
- To date, VAERS has not detected patterns in cause of death that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.
and
Over 145 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.
I absolutely agree with you and your source.
No deaths are ever attributed to vaccines. If they do, they have to pay out lots of money or stop the cash cow vaccine from being given.
They track these things for a reason, it doesn't mean they will ever admit the vaccine "caused" the death. If you are fine, i.e. not in the hospital and don't have a reason you should be admitted, and you take the vaccine and die in a week or 2 they will say you had some preexisting condition that caused your death.
All conditions that cause death are preexisting to death. You also don't die from the vaccine, just what it does to your body. Just like everyone died from there body reacting to a virus and not covid. The difference is they counted all those as covid and don't count any against the vaccine.
The point still stands that close to 2,000 reported have died after getting the vaccine. There haven't been that many deaths from people who have gotten any vaccine since the 60s.
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(04-01-2021, 03:51 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2021, 03:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Lol, you mean like from your own link?
- To date, VAERS has not detected patterns in cause of death that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.
and
Over 145 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.
I absolutely agree with you and your source.
No deaths are ever attributed to vaccines. If they do, they have to pay out lots of money or stop the cash cow vaccine from being given.
They track these things for a reason, it doesn't mean they will ever admit the vaccine "caused" the death. If you are fine, i.e. not in the hospital and don't have a reason you should be admitted, and you take the vaccine and die in a week or 2 they will say you had some preexisting condition that caused your death.
All conditions that cause death are preexisting to death. You also don't die from the vaccine, just what it does to your body. Just like everyone died from there body reacting to a virus and not covid. The difference is they counted all those as covid and don't count any against the vaccine.
The point still stands that close to 2,000 reported have died after getting the vaccine. There haven't been that many deaths from people who have gotten any vaccine since the 60s.
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As I said, no amount of proof is proof for conspiracy theorists, even their own damn sources of information. We've given MILLIONS of doses of the vaccine and a few thousand have died in a concurrent time period. A number well within the normal distribution of death in that time period by the way. What, you think a Covid vaccine prevents death from heart attack, cancer, and stroke? Nah, it's conspiracy and the shot is
causing heart attacks, cancer, and strokes! Meanwhile every country on Earth that's explored this concern has come to the same conclusion, that there's no link between the shot and the deaths. But they're ALL in on it!
I get that you're worried, but you should at least base your anxiety in reality not some mythical anti-vaxxer world of pseudo-science, conspiracy theory, and misinformation, especially if you're going to tell other people to think for themselves.