04-15-2020, 06:23 AM
(04-15-2020, 05:24 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ](04-14-2020, 11:41 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Boy the propaganda got to you.
How? I’m only going off what I’ve heard trump say live in his briefings. How is his view not a centralist view?
Take his party out of it, transpose those same words and put an Obama quote around it, you ok with it?
Total power? Ha no thanks
(04-15-2020, 01:05 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Wait until you see what actually happens, you are falling for the left's tricks. Why did it leak that left leaning governors are trying to form a plan? Trump, CDC, and FEMA are finalizing the plan to start 5/1 and rolling out starting 5/15. The plan is leaking out now, so the MSM had to have the Democrats get the jump so Cuomo, I mean Biden, could benefit from getting the plan out. The governors have been involved in the planning, so they knew this was coming.
Trump simply called the left's bluff. He should have just said fine, removed their emergency whatever destination and said get back to work or get left behind. It was all political from both sides, there was little actual policy or real actions being discussed.
the lefts trick was convincing you guys Trump is a republican. He’s spending more than ever, expanding federal power more than ever, and just told you he has total power.
First of all let me say this. I understand how you feel. This is a scary time. A lot of people are becoming ill, a lot of people are passing away. Nothing is going to diminish that. That being said, as responsible citizens we have to fight through how we may be feeling, and do our best to REASON TOGETHER to make sure that we advocate the best logical solutions, not just assuage our emotional anxieties.
First, Governors don't unilaterally make "FEDERAL Major Disaster Declarations." They have to make a request to the President of the United States and he has TOTAL UNQUESTIONABLE AUTHORITY as the head of the executive branch to approve, disapprove, or downgrade that designation. This grants the Governors authority over the execution of certain programs to preserve life, order, property and allows the state access to FEDERAL FUNDS. So when the President Says that he has TOTAL POWER he's talking about the ultimate authority to begin, end or downgrade a FEDERAL DISASTER/EMERGENCY declaration. He's not talking about the unilateral ability to Invade Illinois if they don't name a street after him or to dictate any policy under normal business. He is talking specifically about his powers to manage or end a state of Emergency. Why is that necessary? Because Any one state can't have unfettered access to the Federal piggy bank any time they want for whatever reason they want without consent from the only NATIONALLY ELECTED public official.
The GDP of NY is roughly 1.5 Trillion Dollars. That means that on an annual basis a lockdown like the one we are in now will cost between 350 to 750 billion dollars. that's between 7 to 15 billion dollars per week. NY doesn't have that money. And You can't allow any one governor to unilaterally take billions of dollars a week in tax revenue from citizens of other states when the National chief executive deems there is no emergency. If you think this is the wrong time to open the economy then that's a valid opinion. You can agree or disagree with that policy decision when the time comes. But that doesn't change the fact that the ability of any Governor to keep their economy shuttered depends on the Federal states of Emergency/Disaster that allow them access to federal money to subsidize it. And when it comes to managing a state of Emergency the buck stops at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue. (That's the monetary side. I also believe, but am not sure, that the ability of the governors to issue a stay at home order is derived from emergency powers that are based on the Federal Disaster Declaration. If that power is derived from their STATE emergency declarations then it may be theoretically possible for Governor to keep his state shuttered without Federal/Presidential assent, but I'm pretty sure that even then there would have to be action by the state legislature.)
As Libertarians, the question we should be asking is: IS A STAY AT HOME ORDER constitutional? You're criticizing the President because he asserts the authority to stop a governor from locking you in your house and outlawing your business by whimsical fiat! There's legitimate question as to whether or not the state has the legal authority to enforce a quarantine order on someone who is reasonably believed to have a dangerous contagion, we're talking about putting 350 million people on defacto house arrest. Are we okay with that? Outlawing religious gatherings? Have you seen what Gretchen Whitmer has been up to lately? Have any of these orders actually been passed by state legislators, or are they all an expression of executive authority? Have they actually withstood legal scrutiny from the Judicial branch?
You're right. An economy can be rebuilt. It took humanity 10k years to build a 22 trillion dollar economy based on free market principles, I guess we can wait another 10k while we wait for a vaccine to a novel virus from a family of pathogens we have NEVER made a vaccine for. My bones will mend, does that give the state the unilateral right to break my Arm because of a computer model? Can they unilaterally burn down my house. Hey, you can rebuild it! What about private PROPERTY RIGHTS? Does that factor into the equation? Should they go away just because there is a health emergency?
Spend more than anyone else? The policy you are advocating will cost between 5 to 10 TRILLION DOLLARS per year. Did you know that? We inflate our currency ever year but that's leveraged by the fact that we also increase our economic output each year at roughly the same rate. What happens to the dollar when you shut down the underlying economy and then keep printing stimulus checks to keep people from insurrection? Venezuala? Greece? Worse?
Downplaying the Virus? You mean like Anthony Fauci on January 26th when he said that the threat to the American people was low (after first reported case in US). What about in Later February when he said that the Virus posed a similar threat tot he seasonal flu? You mean downplaying like that? Or do you mean downplaying like most people are doing about the real world consequences of CAUSING A GREAT DEPRESSION?
So in summation, yes the president said he has total power to approve, Deny, Downgrade, or Revoke a states request for a Federal Disaster Declaration. He does. We can debate the constitutionality of expansive emergency powers, but that doesn't change the fact that as long as we have them on the books the President has the authority to manage the Federal response.
As for Oabama or what aboutism, the left wanted to nationalize the economy... The whole thing. They wanted to take over any business that had an assembly line, run their facilities 24/7 dictate price, wages, hours and manner of operation, dictate quantity of production and all the rest of it. Don't believe me? Go back and listen to Cuomo, DeBlasio and the left hammering Trump as a heartless you know what because he didn't fully invoke the Defense Production Act. Would Mitt Romney have stood up under the paint like that? Bush? McCain? As we get through this tragedy and start to rebuild our market economy, remember that we will HAVE a Market economy because of the Man with the funny hair.
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