(07-20-2021, 09:37 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (07-20-2021, 09:03 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]If you have enough money, you can get anything approved by the FDA.
Right, so because you do not trust the authoritative bodies you cannot be convinced that their results are accurate or that those criticizing them are incorrect.
Honestly... it's just so hard to trust anything these days. Everyone lies, misleads, misinterprets.. something. We have all been let down so much in the last 10 years I'm not sure the trust can come back. It's sad..
I love science, I love to learn about it all; I love the fact that in the west we use fungus and anti-virals... and in Russia they use viruses themselves and phages to fight bacterial infections and viral infections. So I'm not against new advances and realize we need them to continue propagating at the rate we are...
But politics has destroyed the faith we used to have in pretty much everything.
(07-20-2021, 09:40 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (07-20-2021, 09:34 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, the thought occurred to me of them trying to sneak in the covid shot to the flu vaccine, but I don't know if that is scientifically possible.
Combo vaccines are possible though I don't know if the Covid ones are compatible with others. Why would they sneak it? The ability to do it would be touted.
(07-20-2021, 09:38 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the bigger question we need to find an answer to is how did we get to this level of mistrust and how do we repair it for the next pandemic?
What's the difference between the introduction of the Polio vaccine in 1955 and the Covid vaccine today? That's the problem you need to solve.
Polio vaccines are vaccines used to prevent poliomyelitis. Two types are used: an inactivated poliovirus given by injection and a weakened poliovirus given by mouth
That's the difference. It's an inactive virus. This synthetic nucleotide invading cells and telling them what to do is totally new to people.
Lots of good info in this article for the conspiracy nuts, the uninformed, and those simply scouring the web for something that confirms their fearful bias rather than accepting the plain and simple facts.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-thin...iant-covid
One important question is whether the Delta strain will make you sicker than the original virus. Early information about the severity of Delta included a study from Scotland that showed the Delta variant was about twice as likely as Alpha to result in hospitalization in unvaccinated individuals, but other data has shown no significant difference. The information could change as experts learn more.
Another question focuses on how Delta affects the body. There have been reports of symptoms that are different than those associated with the original coronavirus strain, Dr Yildirim says. “It seems like cough and loss of smell are less common. And headache, sore throat, runny nose, and fever are present based on the most recent surveys in the U.K., where more than 90% of the cases are due to the Delta strain,” she says.
It’s unclear whether Delta could cause more breakthrough cases—infections in people who have been vaccinated or have natural immunity from a prior COVID-19 infection, which so far have been rare in general. “Breakthrough is a big question,” Dr. Wilson says. “At least with immunity from the mRNA vaccines, it doesn’t look like it will be a problem.” A Public Health England analysis (in a preprint that has not yet been peer-reviewed) showed that at least two of the vaccines are effective against Delta. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88% effective against symptomatic disease and 96% effective against hospitalization from Delta in the studies, while Oxford-AstraZeneca (which is not an mRNA vaccine) was 60% effective against symptomatic disease and 93% effective against hospitalization. The studies tracked participants who were fully vaccinated with both recommended doses.
Moderna has also reported on studies (not yet peer-reviewed) that showed its vaccine to be effective against Delta and several other mutations (researchers noted only a ”modest reduction in neutralizing titers” against Delta when compared to its effectiveness against the original virus). Johnson & Johnson also has reported that its vaccine is effective against the Delta variant, showing only a small drop in potency compared with its effectiveness against the original strain of the virus.
“So, your risk is significantly lower than someone who has not been vaccinated and you are safer than you were before you got your vaccines,” Dr. Yildirim says.
Will vaccinated people need booster shots to protect against Delta? Once again, it’s too soon to know whether we will need a booster modified to target the Delta variant—or any other variant. (Nor do experts know with certainty yet if vaccinated people will need an additional shot at some point to boost the overall immunity they got from their first shots.) But Pfizer has announced that it is planning clinical trials in August for a booster shot that would potentially be used against Delta.
There are additional questions and concerns about Delta, including Delta Plus—a subvariant of Delta, that has been found in the U.S., the U.K., and other countries. “Delta Plus has one additional mutation to what the Delta variant has,” says Dr. Yildirim. This mutation, called K417N, affects the spike protein that the virus needs to infect cells, and that is the main target for the mRNA and other vaccines, she says.
(07-20-2021, 09:40 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (07-20-2021, 09:34 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, the thought occurred to me of them trying to sneak in the covid shot to the flu vaccine, but I don't know if that is scientifically possible.
Combo vaccines are possible though I don't know if the Covid ones are compatible with others. Why would they sneak it? The ability to do it would be touted.
(07-20-2021, 09:38 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the bigger question we need to find an answer to is how did we get to this level of mistrust and how do we repair it for the next pandemic?
What's the difference between the introduction of the Polio vaccine in 1955 and the Covid vaccine today? That's the problem you need to solve.
Social media, MSM and politics. I am game to get rid of all 3.
(07-20-2021, 09:50 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-20-2021, 09:40 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Combo vaccines are possible though I don't know if the Covid ones are compatible with others. Why would they sneak it? The ability to do it would be touted.
What's the difference between the introduction of the Polio vaccine in 1955 and the Covid vaccine today? That's the problem you need to solve.
Social media, MSM and politics. I am game to get rid of all 3.
I'm game too.
Just another update, we have 250 admission as of last night up from 150 last Monday. Of those 250 only 3 are vaccinated, so the >98% number is continuing to hold steady.
(07-20-2021, 09:49 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of good info in this article for the conspiracy nuts, the uninformed, and those simply scouring the web for something that confirms their fearful bias rather than accepting the plain and simple facts.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-thin...iant-covid
Language like that does nothing to help; it makes people dig in harder. You're obviously not in sales, lol.
(07-20-2021, 10:17 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (07-20-2021, 09:49 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of good info in this article for the conspiracy nuts, the uninformed, and those simply scouring the web for something that confirms their fearful bias rather than accepting the plain and simple facts.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-thin...iant-covid
Language like that does nothing to help; it makes people dig in harder. You're obviously not in sales, lol.
Just calling it like I see it. Half of the participants in this thread seem to fit one of those 3 categories to me.
That's not really much of a slight though. 70% of my family and friends fit one of those categories. It's the world we're living in right now.
Yes, that probably makes me an elitist prick to some folks, but I'm fine with that.
I put effort into discerning fact from fiction and there are lots of folks falling for the fiction these days.
Like the lab leak hypothesis and vitamin d can help reduce the symptoms of Covid. You sure were on top of that.
(07-20-2021, 10:21 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-20-2021, 10:17 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Language like that does nothing to help; it makes people dig in harder. You're obviously not in sales, lol.
Just calling it like I see it. Half of the participants in this thread seem to fit one of those 3 categories to me.
That's not really much of a slight though. 70% of my family and friends fit one of those categories. It's the world we're living in right now.
Yes, that probably makes me an elitist prick to some folks, but I'm fine with that.
I put effort into discerning fact from fiction and there are lots of folks falling for the fiction these days.
You lived in NYC. You are naturally an elitist.
I don't understand why it's so difficult for some people to understand why some others are skeptical of a vaccine that was completely rushed and has no FDA approval..
You wanna take the vaccine, you go right ahead and suck that snake oil.. That's your prerogative. You want to play the 'idiot elitist' and call the people who are skeptical, "conspiracy theorists".. Well start with your own president and vice president who blatantly said that they wouldn't take the vaccine since it was introduced during The Trump Administration.. You wanna act like that, you're garbage.
(07-20-2021, 10:32 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Like the lab leak hypothesis and vitamin d can help reduce the symptoms of Covid. You sure were on top of that.
I don't remember anyone saying that Vit D wasn't a part of effective therapy, but there was a group who posited that it prevented the infection outright and that turned out to be incorrect.
No serious doctor that I know of said it prevented it. I could be wrong, because I don't really follow quackpots. There are a multitude of studies that strongly suggested Vit D played a role in lessening the effects, and this was being recommended as early as March of last year, but was that part of our national Covid awareness campaign? Nope. How many times did you see it on the news? Youtube and Facebook were literally banning doctors for recommending supplementing Vit D as a way of reducing severity. How many deaths might have been prevented by Vit D supplements?
Was NYC telling his friends they should be supplementing Vit D? Probably not, because he's one of the many, many, uninformed people in our society. It's not exclusive to him, obviously. I am certainly misinformed about things. He just lacks the humility to realize he's in the same group, simply because he idolizes institutional power.
And look, I realize there are people out there who are crazy. I have said it before and I will say it again: Those people only have power because our institutions are so corrupt. Period. When people don't believe our institutions are credible, they will seek information from alternative sources. Unfortunately, this means they will turn towards sources that confirm their biases, and they won't have the integrity to sniff through [BLEEP]. Sorry I find it annoying to get lectured by NYC... a dude who clearly can't smell the [BLEEP] piled up to his neck.
(07-20-2021, 11:04 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]No serious doctor that I know of said it prevented it. I could be wrong, because I don't really follow quackpots. There are a multitude of studies that strongly suggested Vit D played a role in lessening the effects, and this was being recommended as early as March of last year, but was that part of our national Covid awareness campaign? Nope. How many times did you see it on the news? Youtube and Facebook were literally banning doctors for recommending supplementing Vit D as a way of reducing severity. How many deaths might have been prevented by Vit D supplements?
Was NYC telling his friends they should be supplementing Vit D? Probably not, because he's one of the many, many, uninformed people in our society. It's not exclusive to him, obviously. I am certainly misinformed about things. He just lacks the humility to realize he's in the same group, simply because he idolizes institutional power.
Didn't mean to trigger you.
There were lots of articles professing many things as potential aids in helping stave off infection or mitigate symptoms. Vitamin D was one of them. I didn't run around shouting it from the hilltops, because every month a new study came out touting another one and ALL of them had one thing in common. Small study groups with small sample sizes that muster very little proof of very little efficacy.
Efficacy of boosting Vitamin D levels is still being studied. So far they know that 80% of positive patients in a study were all Vitamin D deficient, but there's still nothing definitive about those with high Vit D levels actually fending off the virus. It is recommended that the unvaccinated boost there D3 levels by many doctors who also say it is in no way a substitute for vaccination.
If you want to try to paint me as uninformed because I didn't plaster this thread with Vit.D suggestion, have at it.
And if you want humility from me amidst this thread, you'll wait forever.
Humility is a necessary part of learning.
(07-20-2021, 11:26 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Humility is a necessary part of learning.
So is reading comprehension.
Or have you forgotten about your little "context" pet peeve already?
"...amisdt this thread..."
Lol, you are either too stupid, lazy, or pigheaded to go back and reread that post and figure out where you made your mistake. I tell you what... I'm in the middle of learning about the delta variant, but when I finish, I'll go back and spell it out for you, just so I don't have to listen to you prattle on about comprehension anymore.
(07-20-2021, 11:32 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Lol, you are either too stupid, lazy, or pigheaded to go back and reread that post and figure out where you made your mistake. I tell you what... I'm in the middle of learning about the delta variant, but when I finish, I'll go back and spell it out for you, just so I don't have to listen to you prattle on about comprehension anymore.
Oh great, this stupid [BLEEP] game again. You do this every time you're wrong. It doesn't work with me. I've got work to do.
I already know you're an idiot that hates being wrong, yet you still run all over the bull [BLEEP] foothills planting flags on every little knob of land you encounter anyway. It's sad.
(07-20-2021, 11:35 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-20-2021, 11:32 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Lol, you are either too stupid, lazy, or pigheaded to go back and reread that post and figure out where you made your mistake. I tell you what... I'm in the middle of learning about the delta variant, but when I finish, I'll go back and spell it out for you, just so I don't have to listen to you prattle on about comprehension anymore.
Oh great, this stupid [BLEEP] game again. You do this every time you're wrong. It doesn't work with me. I've got work to do.
I already know you're an idiot that hates being wrong, yet you still run all over the bull [BLEEP] foothills planting flags on every little knob of land you encounter anyway. It's sad.
You carry a lot of anger in your soul.
Brief recap (obviously not for the arrogant, because they already know). The conversation in this thread was talking about natural immunity possibly being superior to vaccine immunity. FSG posted numbers that showed people were getting Covid at an increasing rate. TP made a joke about them being immune now. When FSG reference TP's statement, I chimed in with
(07-13-2021, 09:28 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I will admit that one of the problems with people who have "had" covid is the efficacy of the test they were using early on. It had a fairly high false positive. My wife tested positive and neither of us believe she had it.
Now, anyone following that thread should know that my statement was one that supported FSG's position. While I don't think it's smart to do a global roll-out, I was giving FSG another reason why those who have "had" COVID may want to consider getting the vaccine anyways. The high false positivity rating early in this pandemic may cause some people who think they had it to avoid the vaccine, when they otherwise might get it. It's that simple.
Sorry that was complicated for you. There was no fearmongering. I can show you the math that proves there were a lot of false positives. There was no reason to mention the false negatives because it had nothing to do with my point. The example with my wife was anecdotal, but relevant to my post. Literally every post you made afterward showed that you completely misunderstood my premise, and you blamed my failure to quote someone for your inability to read two posts back to back. I even messaged FSG to see if my post was clear or not, because I would prefer to avoid being an arrogant [BLEEP] like some posters here. Although I must admit, you're making it really hard for me.
Go do your work. Might want to get it checked for accuracy.