Irrelevant. We’re going to watch those around us die excruciating deaths from corona virus before we succumb to it ourselves, and it will all be Donald Trump’s fault.
(02-27-2020, 07:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think this virus is much more dangerous to the world economy than it is to our health.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eur...story.html
What's happening in Italy could happen anywhere it starts to spread.
Unfortunately, that link goes to a paywall.
(02-26-2020, 06:13 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (02-26-2020, 04:30 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]From what I’m hearing, it’s mainly the very old, very young, and those with weakened immune systems that are most likely to die from the virus.
I agree. It's pretty much people with weakened immune systems that are in more danger. Add to that the quality of care that a person receives.
(02-26-2020, 05:22 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]I've read mortality rates as high as 4% in China and low as 2% by the World Health Organization - compared to the flu (.1%).
At a minimum, COVID-19 is nearly 2000% more serious than the flu.
I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but that really doesn't seem accurate to me. Sure the numbers will vary between the flu and the corona-virus, but consider the number of cases and where the deaths happen. This page breaks down the probability of dying from the disease based on age and general health. Of course the probabilities are for China only, but consider the level of care that a person might receive there.
It's just my opinion, but I think that the danger is being way over hyped. Consider the locations of the deaths so far along with the quality of medical care in those locations (mostly government run healthcare).
At this stage, it's all over the place, but people should definitely take this seriously. Like with hurricanes, I'm on the side of over-preparation/over-worry vs the latter. Est. 80% of all cases are mild - but the flipside (20% serious/critical) shouldn't be ignored. I'd rather have an over-hyped danger. I also just heard (unverified) that a stewardess from Korea was found infected and she just returned from LA where she spent a week.
University of Minnesota study (2.3%)
Total Cases vs. Total Deaths (8%) - which, if were true of the entire world, we'd be entering emergency territory
Range of 1.2% to 5.6%, 18% out Hubei, China
2% avg in China vs. 48% in Iran - conditions & supplies a huge factor
(02-27-2020, 08:31 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2020, 07:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think this virus is much more dangerous to the world economy than it is to our health.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eur...story.html
What's happening in Italy could happen anywhere it starts to spread.
Unfortunately, that link goes to a paywall.
Okay, so here are a few quotes from the article:
"[font=georgia,]Restrictions imposed to control the virus — and public panic — have transformed Italy’s commercial and financial capital in a way some Milanese fear will result in a deep and lasting economic blow.[/font]
[font=georgia,]Trams rattle by half-empty. Office buildings are vacant. Top-flight soccer matches are played in empty stadiums behind closed doors."[/font]
[font=georgia,]"[font=georgia,]Italy’s containment measures are less drastic than China’s — and easier for other democracies to replicate. And so economists say it is likely that other countries will respond much as Italy has, with precautionary measures prompting factories to close, travelers to cancel plans, stores to shutter and people to hunker down."[/font][/font]
[font=georgia,][font=georgia,][font=georgia,]"“If the virus spreads, and it will spread, I think any local or national politician would have to take very drastic action, and that will virtually halt the economy,” said Roberto Perotti, an economist at Milan’s Bocconi University, who was working from home this week. “For how long, we don’t know. Can you imagine a [car] factory if there is one case in the factory? Can you imagine it not shutting down? I doubt it.”"[/font][/font][/font]
I don't buy the, "This isn't a big deal," stuff coming from the right. I also don't buy the, "This is the end of the world," stuff coming from the left. What I would believe is that COVID-19 is a threat to specific groups within the population, most of us aren't likely to die from it. That said, even 2.3% is a statistically significant chance, so wash your [BLEEP] hands.
If this screws up my trip to England in a couple of months, I will be mad.
(02-27-2020, 09:34 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2020, 08:31 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately, that link goes to a paywall.
Okay, so here are a few quotes from the article:
"[font=georgia,]Restrictions imposed to control the virus — and public panic — have transformed Italy’s commercial and financial capital in a way some Milanese fear will result in a deep and lasting economic blow.[/font]
[font=georgia,]Trams rattle by half-empty. Office buildings are vacant. Top-flight soccer matches are played in empty stadiums behind closed doors."[/font]
[font=georgia,]"[font=georgia,]Italy’s containment measures are less drastic than China’s — and easier for other democracies to replicate. And so economists say it is likely that other countries will respond much as Italy has, with precautionary measures prompting factories to close, travelers to cancel plans, stores to shutter and people to hunker down."[/font][/font]
[font=georgia,][font=georgia,][font=georgia,]"“If the virus spreads, and it will spread, I think any local or national politician would have to take very drastic action, and that will virtually halt the economy,” said Roberto Perotti, an economist at Milan’s Bocconi University, who was working from home this week. “For how long, we don’t know. Can you imagine a [car] factory if there is one case in the factory? Can you imagine it not shutting down? I doubt it.”"[/font][/font][/font]
While everyone agrees there will be more infections in the U.S., as long as it’s contained and traceable there will be little worry.
What troubles me is that given the porosity of our borders, someone will emerge as infected who has had untraceable contact with a wide array of potential hosts. If a school child becomes infected the panic button will be pushed through the wall.
(02-27-2020, 10:04 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2020, 09:34 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, so here are a few quotes from the article:
"[font=georgia,]Restrictions imposed to control the virus — and public panic — have transformed Italy’s commercial and financial capital in a way some Milanese fear will result in a deep and lasting economic blow.[/font]
[font=georgia,]Trams rattle by half-empty. Office buildings are vacant. Top-flight soccer matches are played in empty stadiums behind closed doors."[/font]
[font=georgia,]"[font=georgia,]Italy’s containment measures are less drastic than China’s — and easier for other democracies to replicate. And so economists say it is likely that other countries will respond much as Italy has, with precautionary measures prompting factories to close, travelers to cancel plans, stores to shutter and people to hunker down."[/font][/font]
[font=georgia,][font=georgia,][font=georgia,]"“If the virus spreads, and it will spread, I think any local or national politician would have to take very drastic action, and that will virtually halt the economy,” said Roberto Perotti, an economist at Milan’s Bocconi University, who was working from home this week. “For how long, we don’t know. Can you imagine a [car] factory if there is one case in the factory? Can you imagine it not shutting down? I doubt it.”"[/font][/font][/font]
While everyone agrees there will be more infections in the U.S., as long as it’s contained and traceable there will be little worry.
What troubles me is that given the porosity of our borders, someone will emerge as infected who has had untraceable contact with a wide array of potential hosts. If a school child becomes infected the panic button will be pushed through the wall.
This is not a border security/"build the wall" issue, and any attempt to make it a push for wall funding while the CDC staff and funding remain slashed--you know, the guys actually tasked with curing the damn thing--will make me piss myself laughing while I decide that maybe it's worth my time to vote in the Democratic primary after all.
(02-27-2020, 10:09 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2020, 10:04 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]While everyone agrees there will be more infections in the U.S., as long as it’s contained and traceable there will be little worry.
What troubles me is that given the porosity of our borders, someone will emerge as infected who has had untraceable contact with a wide array of potential hosts. If a school child becomes infected the panic button will be pushed through the wall.
This is not a border security/"build the wall" issue, and any attempt to make it a push for wall funding while the CDC staff and funding remain slashed--you know, the guys actually tasked with curing the damn thing--will make me piss myself laughing while I decide that maybe it's worth my time to vote in the Democratic primary after all.
Are potentially infected people entering our country undetected not a legitimate issue of concern? I’m sure the CDC, and any other agency tasked with controlling this virus, would be keenly interested in preventing this type of spread.
But I get it, it’s an election year, so even the prevention of a potential pandemic is political fodder. Laugh away.
(02-27-2020, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2020, 10:09 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]This is not a border security/"build the wall" issue, and any attempt to make it a push for wall funding while the CDC staff and funding remain slashed--you know, the guys actually tasked with curing the damn thing--will make me piss myself laughing while I decide that maybe it's worth my time to vote in the Democratic primary after all.
Are potentially infected people entering our country undetected not a legitimate issue of concern? I’m sure the CDC, and any other agency tasked with controlling this virus, would be keenly interested in preventing this type of spread.
But I get it, it’s an election year, so even the prevention of a potential pandemic is political fodder. Laugh away.
Fund the CDC first. You know, the organization tasked with curing this [BLEEP]? Yes, I think it's hilarious that this potential pandemic is being turned into political fodder
by those on the right who just can't get their panties un-bunched about Americans not wanting their white picket fence.
(02-27-2020, 10:25 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2020, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Are potentially infected people entering our country undetected not a legitimate issue of concern? I’m sure the CDC, and any other agency tasked with controlling this virus, would be keenly interested in preventing this type of spread.
But I get it, it’s an election year, so even the prevention of a potential pandemic is political fodder. Laugh away.
Fund the CDC first. You know, the organization tasked with curing this [BLEEP]? Yes, I think it's hilarious that this potential pandemic is being turned into political fodder by those on the right who just can't get their panties un-bunched about Americans not wanting their white picket fence.
We’ve found the CNN watcher.
(02-27-2020, 10:32 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2020, 10:25 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Fund the CDC first. You know, the organization tasked with curing this [BLEEP]? Yes, I think it's hilarious that this potential pandemic is being turned into political fodder by those on the right who just can't get their panties un-bunched about Americans not wanting their white picket fence.
We’ve found the CNN watcher.
Actually, I watch more Fox News than anything else. That's what's always on the in gym. Most nights, it's either that or Forensic Files. Dramatized true stories of how people died or an hour of indignant shouting from people the world is probably better off without. No winning that one.
Meh. It's always going to be politicized. People use whatever excuse they can to advance their agenda. If someone already believes immigration is a problem, it's not a stretch for them to connect illegal immigration to a pandemic we're trying to prevent. Making sure we can regulate people entering the US is an important part of that. That said, it's also important to fund the CDC.
I'd rather this not become a political issue, but or politicians are certainly going to exploit it to their advantage. It would be nice if we could see through it, though. I think this is a serious threat, and believe there numbers are higher than we think.
On the plus side, I read we're 6 weeks from a human trial for a vaccine and we are already starting human trials for a treatment. As long as we can keep the medical system from becoming overwhelmed, the mortality rate shouldn't be too bad.
On the downside, warm weather does not seem to be slowing the virus down.
325,000 people enter the United States by air every day. There are also people driving cars and trucks across the border legally, people working on cargo ships, and basically so many more people entering the United States legally compared to illegally, so this is not an issue of controlling illegal immigration.
(02-27-2020, 10:57 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]Meh. It's always going to be politicized. People use whatever excuse they can to advance their agenda. If someone already believes immigration is a problem, it's not a stretch for them to connect illegal immigration to a pandemic we're trying to prevent. Making sure we can regulate people entering the US is an important part of that. That said, it's also important to fund the CDC.
I'd rather this not become a political issue, but or politicians are certainly going to exploit it to their advantage. It would be nice if we could see through it, though. I think this is a serious threat, and believe there numbers are higher than we think.
On the plus side, I read we're 6 weeks from a human trial for a vaccine and we are already starting human trials for a treatment. As long as we can keep the medical system from becoming overwhelmed, the mortality rate shouldn't be too bad.
On the downside, warm weather does not seem to be slowing the virus down.
A vaccine is a year to a year and a half out.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com...e-at%3famp
(02-27-2020, 11:10 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]325,000 people enter the United States by air every day. There are also people driving cars and trucks across the border legally, people working on cargo ships, and basically so many more people entering the United States legally compared to illegally, so this is not an issue of controlling illegal immigration.
These are people who can be stopped and screened at will.
Central and South Americans are not the only ones who illegally cross the southern border. There has been large upticks lately of many other nationalities, including Asians. This is not an attempt to advocate for a wall. I’m merely pointing out a very valid concern as it pertains to preventing a possible outbreak. Is it not?
(02-27-2020, 11:30 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2020, 11:10 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]325,000 people enter the United States by air every day. There are also people driving cars and trucks across the border legally, people working on cargo ships, and basically so many more people entering the United States legally compared to illegally, so this is not an issue of controlling illegal immigration.
These are people who can be stopped and screened at will.
Central and South Americans are not the only ones who illegally cross the southern border. There has been large upticks lately of many other nationalities, including Asians. This is not an attempt to advocate for a wall. I’m merely pointing out a very valid concern as it pertains to preventing a possible outbreak. Is it not?
Sure.
More new cases in South Korea than China - or perhaps the reporting is more accurate in SK
China and Japan have closed schools nationwide.
The Iranian VP has been diagnosed with the virus and the Iranian Ambassador to the Vatican has died.
And the stock market is puking another 300+ points...
Went to Costco Tuesday, saw several Asians stocking up heavily on dry goods, etc.
I bought a lot of batteries and cooking oil.
(02-27-2020, 01:16 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]More new cases in South Korea than China - or perhaps the reporting is more accurate in SK
China and Japan have closed schools nationwide.
The Iranian VP has been diagnosed with the virus and the Iranian Ambassador to the Vatican has died.
And the stock market is puking another 300+ points...
Went to Costco Tuesday, saw several Asians stocking up heavily on dry goods, etc.
I bought a lot of batteries and cooking oil.
Do you not visit Costco that often? Every time I'm go there are Asians stocking up on dry goods by the cart load.
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