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We had a big lockdown in Australia and now probably have more freedom than anyone and no cases.

Obviously the government got bored of having the control?

(12-05-2020, 12:14 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-04-2020, 07:20 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion the "lock-down/shut-down" orders as well as the "mask mandates" are nothing more than a power thing.  It's all about government controlling the people.  I can count on one hand (two) the exact number of times that I have worn a mask, and that is because I had to.  Other than those two times I have lived my life normally (shaking hands with people, been in large gatherings with no masks, etc.) and I'm still here.

Do you understand the science involved in the transmission of the Covid virus?  

Are you saying the government of the United States, as well as those of France, Spain, Italy, Germany and so many other countries around the world, all spontaneously seized upon the Covid virus as an excuse to "control" their people?  For what purpose?  How do they benefit?

How much worse must the outbreak become before you feel a social responsibility to take reasonable precautions for the benefit of others?

(12-05-2020, 03:02 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-04-2020, 07:20 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Ponder this.

A study was put out by none other than the CDC a few days ago that indicates that the China virus was present in the U.S. as early as early December.  China virus antibodies were detected in blood samples taken in early December.  Antibodies don't appear until after a length of time that a person had been infected and recovered.  This didn't get much if any attention from the MSM.

Were hospitals overwhelmed with patients in need of a ventilator or some kind of other apparatus back in November/December 2019?  Was there an unusual amount of people dying from "flu-like" symptoms then?  (Remember, we weren't even aware of the China virus back then).

The first "lock-downs" didn't happen until March.  Did the virus not spread BIG TIME for the 3-5 months that it had been present in the country?  Especially when people weren't "social distancing" or wearing masks at the time?

Remember "field hospitals" being set up for the "overwhelming numbers" that were supposedly expected?  Even to the point that a Navy hospital ship was moved into New York to handle the "overflow"?  Manufacturing lines being re-tooled and set up to produce the supposed shortage of ventilators?

In my opinion the "lock-down/shut-down" orders as well as the "mask mandates" are nothing more than a power thing.  It's all about government controlling the people.  I can count on one hand (two) the exact number of times that I have worn a mask, and that is because I had to.  Other than those two times I have lived my life normally (shaking hands with people, been in large gatherings with no masks, etc.) and I'm still here.

It's just pathetic that you think COVID is being exploited by the Government want to control its citizens. I've read some dumb conspiracy theories, but this close to tops the list.

The virus is showing a distinct pattern of being more virulent during the winter months.  We dodged a bullet going into summer when the virus hit.  Now, however, we will reap what we sow.  Winter isn't coming, it's here. Over 200,000 new infections in a single day because there are too many idiots who still think COVID is fake news.

Explain how this is not government control of people.

(12-05-2020, 05:17 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 12:14 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Do you understand the science involved in the transmission of the Covid virus?  

Are you saying the government of the United States, as well as those of France, Spain, Italy, Germany and so many other countries around the world, all spontaneously seized upon the Covid virus as an excuse to "control" their people?  For what purpose?  How do they benefit?

How much worse must the outbreak become before you feel a social responsibility to take reasonable precautions for the benefit of others?

(12-05-2020, 03:02 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]It's just pathetic that you think COVID is being exploited by the Government want to control its citizens. I've read some dumb conspiracy theories, but this close to tops the list.

The virus is showing a distinct pattern of being more virulent during the winter months.  We dodged a bullet going into summer when the virus hit.  Now, however, we will reap what we sow.  Winter isn't coming, it's here. Over 200,000 new infections in a single day because there are too many idiots who still think COVID is fake news.

Explain how this is not government control of people.

Government controls people in some ways at some times.  But not all ways and not at all times.  What's the problem?

(12-05-2020, 05:41 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 05:17 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Explain how this is not government control of people.

Government controls people in some ways at some times.  But not all ways and not at all times.  What's the problem?

The problem is that government should have as near to 0 control over people as possible.  Explain why a person who owns a restaurant (and also EMPLOYS PEOPLE) with outdoor seating is forced to shut down, yet a movie company is able to set up outdoor seating 50 ft. away and it's acceptable.

Again, the shutdowns have nothing to do with "safety" and everything to do with control.

(12-05-2020, 05:54 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 05:41 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Government controls people in some ways at some times.  But not all ways and not at all times.  What's the problem?

The problem is that government should have as near to 0 control over people as possible.  Explain why a person who owns a restaurant (and also EMPLOYS PEOPLE) with outdoor seating is forced to shut down, yet a movie company is able to set up outdoor seating 50 ft. away and it's acceptable.

Again, the shutdowns have nothing to do with "safety" and everything to do with control.

I might have missed something up thread.  Where and when did that happen?
I will say that movie theaters are usually only under police authority while restaurants are usually under police and also under health inspectors. A health inspector might make a decision that the sheriff's deputy doesn't agree with.  Doesn't make it right, that's what might have happened though.

(12-05-2020, 05:17 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 12:14 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Do you understand the science involved in the transmission of the Covid virus?  

Are you saying the government of the United States, as well as those of France, Spain, Italy, Germany and so many other countries around the world, all spontaneously seized upon the Covid virus as an excuse to "control" their people?  For what purpose?  How do they benefit?

How much worse must the outbreak become before you feel a social responsibility to take reasonable precautions for the benefit of others?

(12-05-2020, 03:02 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]It's just pathetic that you think COVID is being exploited by the Government want to control its citizens. I've read some dumb conspiracy theories, but this close to tops the list.

The virus is showing a distinct pattern of being more virulent during the winter months.  We dodged a bullet going into summer when the virus hit.  Now, however, we will reap what we sow.  Winter isn't coming, it's here. Over 200,000 new infections in a single day because there are too many idiots who still think COVID is fake news.

Explain how this is not government control of people.

First of all, I note that you elected not to respond to my questions.  Why is that?

Of course it's control.  Taking measures to ensure public safety and welfare is part of the governments job.  Failure to do so, especially in the face of a worldwide crisis, would be dereliction of that duty.  

At the municipal, state and federal levels, the government controls your actions in numerous ways every day:
Driving your car; how fast, minimum insurance required, functioning taillights, valid license and registration...
Alcohol;  how much you can consume before you are legally unable to drive, how late you can buy it, how old you must be to buy it...
Taxes ; income, sales, inheritance, capital gains, how much (state & fed both get a a piece of you here) you pay on a gallon of gas, rooms, meals...
Firearms, where you can carry, how you can carry, where you can discharge....

The list goes on and on, why are you so emotional about the covid response?

(12-05-2020, 06:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 05:54 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is that government should have as near to 0 control over people as possible.  Explain why a person who owns a restaurant (and also EMPLOYS PEOPLE) with outdoor seating is forced to shut down, yet a movie company is able to set up outdoor seating 50 ft. away and it's acceptable.

Again, the shutdowns have nothing to do with "safety" and everything to do with control.

I might have missed something up thread.  Where and when did that happen?
I will say that movie theaters are usually only under police authority while restaurants are usually under police and also under health inspectors. A health inspector might make a decision that the sheriff's deputy doesn't agree with.  Doesn't make it right, that's what might have happened though.

Perhaps you missed the link that I posted.  Since snowflakes like you don't like reading anything from FOX News, here is the twitter post.

https://twitter.com/jakecoco/status/1334...oor-dining

(12-05-2020, 06:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 05:17 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Explain how this is not government control of people.

First of all, I note that you elected not to respond to my questions.  Why is that?

Of course it's control.  Taking measures to ensure public safety and welfare is part of the governments job.  Failure to do so, especially in the face of a worldwide crisis, would be dereliction of that duty.  

At the municipal, state and federal levels, the government controls your actions in numerous ways every day:
Driving your car; how fast, minimum insurance required, functioning taillights, valid license and registration...
Alcohol;  how much you can consume before you are legally unable to drive, how late you can buy it, how old you must be to buy it...
Taxes ; income, sales, inheritance, capital gains, how much (state & fed both get a a piece of you here) you pay on a gallon of gas, rooms, meals...
Firearms, where you can carry, how you can carry, where you can discharge....

The list goes on and on, why are you so emotional about the covid response?

Regarding your questions, I really don't care about the governments of other countries.  Yes government in this country (more specifically democrats) seized upon the China virus to control people.  For what purpose?  I suppose to make people more dependent on government.  How do they benefit?  More power and control.

The bottom line is masks, shutdowns, etc. do nothing for "safety" and they know it.  Democrat states and cities are shutting down while Florida is open.  How much worse off is Florida?

(12-05-2020, 07:25 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 06:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I might have missed something up thread.  Where and when did that happen?
I will say that movie theaters are usually only under police authority while restaurants are usually under police and also under health inspectors. A health inspector might make a decision that the sheriff's deputy doesn't agree with.  Doesn't make it right, that's what might have happened though.

Perhaps you missed the link that I posted.  Since snowflakes like you don't like reading anything from FOX News, here is the twitter post.

https://twitter.com/jakecoco/status/1334...oor-dining

(12-05-2020, 06:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]First of all, I note that you elected not to respond to my questions.  Why is that?

Of course it's control.  Taking measures to ensure public safety and welfare is part of the governments job.  Failure to do so, especially in the face of a worldwide crisis, would be dereliction of that duty.  

At the municipal, state and federal levels, the government controls your actions in numerous ways every day:
Driving your car; how fast, minimum insurance required, functioning taillights, valid license and registration...
Alcohol;  how much you can consume before you are legally unable to drive, how late you can buy it, how old you must be to buy it...
Taxes ; income, sales, inheritance, capital gains, how much (state & fed both get a a piece of you here) you pay on a gallon of gas, rooms, meals...
Firearms, where you can carry, how you can carry, where you can discharge....

The list goes on and on, why are you so emotional about the covid response?

Regarding your questions, I really don't care about the governments of other countries.  Yes government in this country (more specifically democrats) seized upon the China virus to control people.  For what purpose?  I suppose to make people more dependent on government.  How do they benefit?  More power and control.

The bottom line is masks, shutdowns, etc. do nothing for "safety" and they know it.  Democrat states and cities are shutting down while Florida is open.  How much worse off is Florida?

Let’s see...almost all of the big companies that made out like a bandit during the first lockdowns are huge dem donors and if people are out of work and depend of the government they’ll keep voting in the people willing to pay them. It’s a brilliant plan if you don’t mind destroying everything for some power.

(12-05-2020, 07:25 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 06:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I might have missed something up thread.  Where and when did that happen?
I will say that movie theaters are usually only under police authority while restaurants are usually under police and also under health inspectors. A health inspector might make a decision that the sheriff's deputy doesn't agree with.  Doesn't make it right, that's what might have happened though.

Perhaps you missed the link that I posted.  Since snowflakes like you don't like reading anything from FOX News, here is the twitter post.

https://twitter.com/jakecoco/status/1334...oor-dining

Thats pretty open and shut.
Outdoor restaurant service is not allowed, but filming movies is allowed.  
The filmmakers were doing an outdoor restaurant scene.
It's dumb, but it's not corrupt and there is a due process to it.
I don't think outdoor dining spreads Covid.  I guess the kitchen workers are indoors and wait staff are in and out so it's not totally risk free, but, I still wouldn't go after that for reducing the outbreak.
California is dumb.
It's been dumb since the 1960s. Film at 11.

(12-05-2020, 06:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 05:17 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Explain how this is not government control of people.

First of all, I note that you elected not to respond to my questions.  Why is that?

Of course it's control.  Taking measures to ensure public safety and welfare is part of the governments job.  Failure to do so, especially in the face of a worldwide crisis, would be dereliction of that duty.  

At the municipal, state and federal levels, the government controls your actions in numerous ways every day:
Driving your car; how fast, minimum insurance required, functioning taillights, valid license and registration...
Alcohol;  how much you can consume before you are legally unable to drive, how late you can buy it, how old you must be to buy it...
Taxes ; income, sales, inheritance, capital gains, how much (state & fed both get a a piece of you here) you pay on a gallon of gas, rooms, meals...
Firearms, where you can carry, how you can carry, where you can discharge....

The list goes on and on, why are you so emotional about the covid response?

None of those examples have shuttered thousands of businesses, put people out of work, shut down schools, limited the number of people who can work at a place of business causing unemployment and underemployment as well as reduced manufacturing resulting in shortages of goods, etc. 

They have not destroyed the livelihoods of thousands of people, impacted the education of scores of school kids, brought on mental illness, forced people who live in abusive households to be around their abusers during shelter in place orders. I could go on.

(12-06-2020, 01:44 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 06:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]First of all, I note that you elected not to respond to my questions.  Why is that?

Of course it's control.  Taking measures to ensure public safety and welfare is part of the governments job.  Failure to do so, especially in the face of a worldwide crisis, would be dereliction of that duty.  

At the municipal, state and federal levels, the government controls your actions in numerous ways every day:
Driving your car; how fast, minimum insurance required, functioning taillights, valid license and registration...
Alcohol;  how much you can consume before you are legally unable to drive, how late you can buy it, how old you must be to buy it...
Taxes ; income, sales, inheritance, capital gains, how much (state & fed both get a a piece of you here) you pay on a gallon of gas, rooms, meals...
Firearms, where you can carry, how you can carry, where you can discharge....

The list goes on and on, why are you so emotional about the covid response?

None of those examples have shuttered thousands of businesses, put people out of work, shut down schools, limited the number of people who can work at a place of business causing unemployment and underemployment as well as reduced manufacturing resulting in shortages of goods, etc. 

They have not destroyed the livelihoods of thousands of people, impacted the education of scores of school kids, brought on mental illness, forced people who live in abusive households to be around their abusers during shelter in place orders. I could go on.

Rubbish.

If the Government didn't control the speed on the road, or mandate car safety features, thousands more would die every year. The government is there to make the tough decisions that people can't / wont.  How many lives are saved by mandating the wearing of safety belts?  What about drink drive rules?

These decisions have saved lives, just like the COVID response of shuttering businesses, lockdowns and wearing masks.  It's about saving lives.

(12-05-2020, 06:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 05:17 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Explain how this is not government control of people.

First of all, I note that you elected not to respond to my questions.  Why is that?

Of course it's control.  Taking measures to ensure public safety and welfare is part of the governments job.  Failure to do so, especially in the face of a worldwide crisis, would be dereliction of that duty.  

At the municipal, state and federal levels, the government controls your actions in numerous ways every day:
Driving your car; how fast, minimum insurance required, functioning taillights, valid license and registration...
Alcohol;  how much you can consume before you are legally unable to drive, how late you can buy it, how old you must be to buy it...
Taxes ; income, sales, inheritance, capital gains, how much (state & fed both get a a piece of you here) you pay on a gallon of gas, rooms, meals...
Firearms, where you can carry, how you can carry, where you can discharge....

The list goes on and on, why are you so emotional about the covid response? 

I'm opposed to government control or the existence of laws regarding everything you listed there as well. Because every one of them simply leads to more and more of them. Then one day the government assumes the right to close down the entire country and penalize people for things like not wearing masks, going to church, or having holiday meals in their homes. That people aren't MORE outraged about this shows how successful the destruction of American values has been over the past 50 years.

(12-06-2020, 05:12 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2020, 01:44 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]None of those examples have shuttered thousands of businesses, put people out of work, shut down schools, limited the number of people who can work at a place of business causing unemployment and underemployment as well as reduced manufacturing resulting in shortages of goods, etc. 

They have not destroyed the livelihoods of thousands of people, impacted the education of scores of school kids, brought on mental illness, forced people who live in abusive households to be around their abusers during shelter in place orders. I could go on.

Rubbish.

If the Government didn't control the speed on the road, or mandate car safety features, thousands more would die every year. The government is there to make the tough decisions that people can't / wont.  How many lives are saved by mandating the wearing of safety belts?  What about drink drive rules?

These decisions have saved lives, just like the COVID response of shuttering businesses, lockdowns and wearing masks.  It's about saving lives.

Oh the histrionics.

(12-06-2020, 05:12 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2020, 01:44 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]None of those examples have shuttered thousands of businesses, put people out of work, shut down schools, limited the number of people who can work at a place of business causing unemployment and underemployment as well as reduced manufacturing resulting in shortages of goods, etc. 

They have not destroyed the livelihoods of thousands of people, impacted the education of scores of school kids, brought on mental illness, forced people who live in abusive households to be around their abusers during shelter in place orders. I could go on.

Rubbish.

If the Government didn't control the speed on the road, or mandate car safety features, thousands more would die every year. The government is there to make the tough decisions that people can't / wont.  How many lives are saved by mandating the wearing of safety belts?  What about drink drive rules?

These decisions have saved lives, just like the COVID response of shuttering businesses, lockdowns and wearing masks.  It's about saving lives.

Wow, worst take of the year so far. They have you trained to be a good little obedient socialist,  huh?

(12-06-2020, 09:37 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2020, 05:12 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]Rubbish.

If the Government didn't control the speed on the road, or mandate car safety features, thousands more would die every year. The government is there to make the tough decisions that people can't / wont.  How many lives are saved by mandating the wearing of safety belts?  What about drink drive rules?

These decisions have saved lives, just like the COVID response of shuttering businesses, lockdowns and wearing masks.  It's about saving lives.

Wow, worst take of the year so far. They have you trained to be a good little obedient socialist,  huh?

The word socialist loses all of its punch if you just use it for anything you don't like.

(12-06-2020, 09:28 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2020, 06:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]First of all, I note that you elected not to respond to my questions.  Why is that?

Of course it's control.  Taking measures to ensure public safety and welfare is part of the governments job.  Failure to do so, especially in the face of a worldwide crisis, would be dereliction of that duty.  

At the municipal, state and federal levels, the government controls your actions in numerous ways every day:
Driving your car; how fast, minimum insurance required, functioning taillights, valid license and registration...
Alcohol;  how much you can consume before you are legally unable to drive, how late you can buy it, how old you must be to buy it...
Taxes ; income, sales, inheritance, capital gains, how much (state & fed both get a a piece of you here) you pay on a gallon of gas, rooms, meals...
Firearms, where you can carry, how you can carry, where you can discharge....

The list goes on and on, why are you so emotional about the covid response? 

I'm opposed to government control or the existence of laws regarding everything you listed there as well. Because every one of them simply leads to more and more of them. Then one day the government assumes the right to close down the entire country and penalize people for things like not wearing masks, going to church, or having holiday meals in their homes. That people aren't MORE outraged about this shows how successful the destruction of American values has been over the past 50 years.

I don't think you've really thought this one through to it's inevitable conclusion, were those laws eliminated. 

How do you fund government at any level without taxes?  Taxes pay for the military, public schools, police and fire departments, border patrol, social security, health care.....  Terminate any one of those tomorrow and the country falls into chaos. 
If you live in a quiet residential neighborhood, do you want someone going by at 80 mph when you're kids are playing in the yard?  Can your neighbor blast the stereo at 3 am?  Target practice?  Target practice at 3 am?

(12-06-2020, 11:02 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2020, 09:28 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I'm opposed to government control or the existence of laws regarding everything you listed there as well. Because every one of them simply leads to more and more of them. Then one day the government assumes the right to close down the entire country and penalize people for things like not wearing masks, going to church, or having holiday meals in their homes. That people aren't MORE outraged about this shows how successful the destruction of American values has been over the past 50 years.

I don't think you've really thought this one through to it's inevitable conclusion, were those laws eliminated. 

How do you fund government at any level without taxes?  Taxes pay for the military, public schools, police and fire departments, border patrol, social security, health care.....  Terminate any one of those tomorrow and the country falls into chaos. 
If you live in a quiet residential neighborhood, do you want someone going by at 80 mph when you're kids are playing in the yard?  Can your neighbor blast the stereo at 3 am?  Target practice?  Target practice at 3 am?

I think you have no idea how many years I've spent thinking it through and I think you've been conditioned to believe that government is the only solution to those issues you raised.

(12-06-2020, 11:35 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2020, 11:02 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think you've really thought this one through to it's inevitable conclusion, were those laws eliminated. 

How do you fund government at any level without taxes?  Taxes pay for the military, public schools, police and fire departments, border patrol, social security, health care.....  Terminate any one of those tomorrow and the country falls into chaos. 
If you live in a quiet residential neighborhood, do you want someone going by at 80 mph when you're kids are playing in the yard?  Can your neighbor blast the stereo at 3 am?  Target practice?  Target practice at 3 am?

I think you have no idea how many years I've spent thinking it through and I think you've been conditioned to believe that government is the only solution to those issues you raised.

I'd be happy to hear your suggestions for viable options or consider alternatives that have proven successful in other countries.

(12-06-2020, 11:35 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2020, 11:02 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think you've really thought this one through to it's inevitable conclusion, were those laws eliminated. 

How do you fund government at any level without taxes?  Taxes pay for the military, public schools, police and fire departments, border patrol, social security, health care.....  Terminate any one of those tomorrow and the country falls into chaos. 
If you live in a quiet residential neighborhood, do you want someone going by at 80 mph when you're kids are playing in the yard?  Can your neighbor blast the stereo at 3 am?  Target practice?  Target practice at 3 am?

I think you have no idea how many years I've spent thinking it through and I think you've been conditioned to believe that government is the only solution to those issues you raised.

I'm sure you've thought about it a lot.
Just because you thought about it a lot doesn't mean you're right though.
You have either a naive illusion that people will still do these necessary tasks without a government organizing them and paying them, or you've decided it's okay that these things go undone in most circumstances, as long as you're not taxed.
You don't need to think about these things more or for a longer period of time. 
The only thing that might change your mind is experiencing them firsthand. And you wouldn't have to go far! There are islands in the Caribbean with minimal schools, and minimal military, police, and fire service.  For instance, in Jamaica, school is only compulsory and free up to what we would call the fifth grade. After that, your parents have to pay, or a charity has to pay for you, and it's easy for the school to kick you out if you're not making progress. 
Might be your kind of place!

(12-06-2020, 12:19 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2020, 11:35 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think you have no idea how many years I've spent thinking it through and I think you've been conditioned to believe that government is the only solution to those issues you raised.

I'd be happy to hear your suggestions for viable options or consider alternatives that have proven successful in other countries.

We've had perfectly viable options in the past that have slowly been removed in favor of statism, and I don't give 2 [BLEEP] about how lesser countries do things.