(03-25-2020, 03:20 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Left wants the money for the Government to decide. Right wants the money for the Corporations to decide. Why don't you just give the people their [BLEEP] money back that you steal paycheck to paycheck?
But how could you buy the votes of people who don't pay taxes then?
(03-25-2020, 03:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 03:20 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Left wants the money for the Government to decide. Right wants the money for the Corporations to decide. Why don't you just give the people their [BLEEP] money back that you steal paycheck to paycheck?
But how could you buy the votes of people who don't pay taxes then?
Everyone pays taxes, bucko.
(03-25-2020, 03:20 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Left wants the money for the Government to decide. Right wants the money for the Corporations to decide. Why don't you just give the people their [BLEEP] money back that you steal paycheck to paycheck?
I'd like to get some payroll tax money back as much as the next guy, but those of us still on payrolls are not the ones with the problem...
(03-25-2020, 04:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 03:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] But how could you buy the votes of people who don't pay taxes then?
Everyone pays taxes, bucko.
Unfortunately. Would like an option though to designate where I want my tax money to go to directly at my discretion. Not some rodeo clown with a red tie or blue tie around his neck.
Veterans
Public Education
Infrastructure
Social Security
Job Creation
Less hand outs for those who are physically and mentally capable of working some type of job. And more financial security for those who already bust their butts and paid their dues and deserve to retire in peace. Take care of the veterans as always. Educate our children, especially in the public sector since not all of us were born as trust fund kids. And infrastructure. Need to rebuild our land. Make it strong again. Make it whole again.
Discretionary spending my [BLEEP]. No more of that. No more leaks and losses of billions and trillions of dollars that we just seem to casually glance and gloss over when some clown gets on TV in front of CNN or FOX news. Enough with the B.S.
(03-25-2020, 04:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 04:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone pays taxes, bucko.
I'd like to get some payroll tax money back as much as the next guy, but those of us still on payrolls are not the ones with the problem...
False.
If you have figured out a way to evade sales and payroll taxes, let me know.
If you're renting, you're still paying property tax, you understand. The landlord pays that tax out of your rent, not the goodness of his heart...
Everybody pays taxes.
But not everybody pays federal income tax.
(03-25-2020, 06:01 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 04:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]False.
If you have figured out a way to evade sales and payroll taxes, let me know.
If you're renting, you're still paying property tax, you understand. The landlord pays that tax out of your rent, not the goodness of his heart...
Everybody pays taxes.
But not everybody pays federal income tax.
Regarding the part in bold, that's the problem. The workers that want to make flipping burgers a career and get paid $15 per hour do not pay federal income tax. Yes a small amount is deducted out of their check each payday, but they are the ones getting the income tax "refunds" every year. The same goes for a lot of low wage earners in other occupations.
I have seen it with my own eyes with one of my children. My daughter worked low/minimum wage type of jobs one year and wasn't even working full time. I would get pissed when I would have to write a check to the IRS for basically the amount that she was getting as a "refund" (well over $1000).
Don't get me started on property taxes. My home has been paid off for close to 10 years, yet I have to pay for the "privilege" to own it in property taxes. I also have to pay property taxes on land that I own even though the government doesn't have to provide anything towards that (except for 911 service).
(03-25-2020, 02:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 10:13 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Not good enough means exactly that. Too little too late. Hospital workers are put at unnecessary risk and much of that could have been prevented with more decisive and timely action.
The states with governors and mayors begging for help are published all over the internet. California, New York, Ohio, Michigan, Georgia, Kentucky, and the list goes on.
NY got 4000 ventilators after requesting 30,000. It's a start. And it's not enough.
Also - the numbers released by the white house of PPE items are miniscule compared to the need/demand.
I never said nothing has been done. I've been crystal clear that too little is being done and action was initiated with a profound lack of haste.
Now - Concerning the private sector supply chain that is being overwhelmed and the need to augment that:
Here is the portion of the Defense Production Act that would allow our military to take part in the distribution process.
(1) Authorized activities.--To reduce current or projected
shortfalls of industrial resources, critical technology items,
or essential materials needed for national defense purposes,
subject to such regulations as the President may prescribe, the
President may authorize a guaranteeing agency to provide
guarantees of loans by private institutions for the purpose of
financing any contractor, subcontractor, provider of critical
infrastructure, or other person in support of production
capabilities or supplies that are deemed by the guaranteeing
agency to be necessary to create, maintain, expedite, expand,
protect, or restore production and deliveries or services
essential to the national defense.
This is not happening and I maintain that it should be happening.
Give me a good reason why the federal government should not be making efforts to use our military's ability to supply itself to temporarily supply our hospitals that are in dire need?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think from reading the thread and what you are getting at is the military should be the supply channel rather than FedEx/UPS/USPS. Is that what you are saying?
If so I can give a partial answer based on my experience working in/around the military (more specifically the Navy). Much of the supplies that the Navy procures comes via FedEx primarily. It would actually be less efficient (in my opinion) to divert shipments that would be going directly to states and more specifically to the point-of-use to military installations for distribution.
I understand your concerns and frustration. I would like to see supplies get to where they are needed ASAP as well, but I just don't see how using the military would be more efficient. The only way that I could see that being a possibility is if (hypothetically) say there was a stockpile of supplies already located at NAS Jax. I suppose military transport to local hospitals would work as well as loading onto a cargo aircraft and flying them directly to states where supplies are needed. However, we don't know where or what is stockpiled by the federal government.
The legislation that was enacted clearly calls for the augmentation of private institutions' ability
"to create, maintain, expedite, expand, protect, or restore production and deliveries."
This is not happening. They are simply allowing the private sector supply chain to continue at it's prior maximum volume.
While I respect your opinion and service, I'm aware of our military's ability to radically alter its own supply chain during a time of military crisis - as opposed to a time of minimal military conflict as we are currently experiencing. If it can achieve that level of global supply for troops at wartime, certainly it can be of SOME use in helping get masks and ventilators to Michigan.
Don't misunderstand me. I come from a military family, I was raised my a USMC GySgt who made me pass inspection before attending church on Sundays. I respect our military, but I am not so naive to believe they could not be more of a resource in this crisis than they are right now if they were to be utilized as such.
To be clear - the military should not be THE supply chain, they should augment the supply chain in whatever way possible.
(03-25-2020, 07:45 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 06:01 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]If you have figured out a way to evade sales and payroll taxes, let me know.
If you're renting, you're still paying property tax, you understand. The landlord pays that tax out of your rent, not the goodness of his heart...
Everybody pays taxes.
But not everybody pays federal income tax.
Regarding the part in bold, that's the problem. The workers that want to make flipping burgers a career and get paid $15 per hour do not pay federal income tax. Yes a small amount is deducted out of their check each payday, but they are the ones getting the income tax "refunds" every year. The same goes for a lot of low wage earners in other occupations.
I have seen it with my own eyes with one of my children. My daughter worked low/minimum wage type of jobs one year and wasn't even working full time. I would get pissed when I would have to write a check to the IRS for basically the amount that she was getting as a "refund" (well over $1000).
Don't get me started on property taxes. My home has been paid off for close to 10 years, yet I have to pay for the "privilege" to own it in property taxes. I also have to pay property taxes on land that I own even though the government doesn't have to provide anything towards that (except for 911 service).
I guess you're started up already. Sorry. FWIW, I'm with Henry George on the property tax issue.
As for your daughter, if she got a large refund, it was probably from the EITC, and it was meant to incentivize her to take as many hours as she could. people don't always respond to or understand the incentives though.
I know a guy who got laid off a month ago and hasn't applied for unemployment because he thinks applying would be complicated and the benefit would be small.
Seven new deaths in Georgia today. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths are way up this week. Most of metro Atlanta is under shelter in place, with the governor’s stubborn refusal to piss off his rural base only helping the virus do its thing.
(03-25-2020, 08:26 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 02:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think from reading the thread and what you are getting at is the military should be the supply channel rather than FedEx/UPS/USPS. Is that what you are saying?
If so I can give a partial answer based on my experience working in/around the military (more specifically the Navy). Much of the supplies that the Navy procures comes via FedEx primarily. It would actually be less efficient (in my opinion) to divert shipments that would be going directly to states and more specifically to the point-of-use to military installations for distribution.
I understand your concerns and frustration. I would like to see supplies get to where they are needed ASAP as well, but I just don't see how using the military would be more efficient. The only way that I could see that being a possibility is if (hypothetically) say there was a stockpile of supplies already located at NAS Jax. I suppose military transport to local hospitals would work as well as loading onto a cargo aircraft and flying them directly to states where supplies are needed. However, we don't know where or what is stockpiled by the federal government.
The legislation that was enacted clearly calls for the augmentation of private institutions' ability "to create, maintain, expedite, expand, protect, or restore production and deliveries."
This is not happening. They are simply allowing the private sector supply chain to continue at it's prior maximum volume.
While I respect your opinion and service, I'm aware of our military's ability to radically alter its own supply chain during a time of military crisis - as opposed to a time of minimal military conflict as we are currently experiencing. If it can achieve that level of global supply for troops at wartime, certainly it can be of SOME use in helping get masks and ventilators to Michigan.
Don't misunderstand me. I come from a military family, I was raised my a USMC GySgt who made me pass inspection before attending church on Sundays. I respect our military, but I am not so naive to believe they could not be more of a resource in this crisis than they are right now if they were to be utilized as such.
To be clear - the military should not be THE supply chain, they should augment the supply chain in whatever way possible.
This is just simply not true. Companies have voluntarily agreed to increase production to half a billion
95 masks. Companies are CALLING the whitehouse offering to make PPE, Ventilators respirators etc. Why? Because even when this is over there is going to be tens of billions of dollars in contracts replenishing the strategic stockpile!
I got an email from harbor freight. They're donating their masks. Facebook donated their masks etc. Etc. So when they call saying "Mr. President... we want to give the feds my entire supply" hes supposed to hang up on them and write an executive order just to say it was taken under the DPA?
So, companies are dramatically increasing their productive capacity. We are 8 weeks from patient zero in US. If a plant agrees to quadruple production, that's still going to take time to MAKE, PACK, AND SHIP the new supply. I think they said today we've shipped ssd's ome 20 million surgical masks and 9 million n95 respirators millions of gloves and gowns. And that's not including all the purchases @ the state level by governors. The idea that were just sitting around twiddling our thumbs waiting on 3m to make the same 2 million masks they would have made anyway this month just isn't the case. Were going to need hundreds of millions of units of product and our previous capacity per month was a fraction of that. Water doesnt boil faster if your in a hurry.
(03-25-2020, 08:52 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 08:26 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The legislation that was enacted clearly calls for the augmentation of private institutions' ability "to create, maintain, expedite, expand, protect, or restore production and deliveries."
This is not happening. They are simply allowing the private sector supply chain to continue at it's prior maximum volume.
While I respect your opinion and service, I'm aware of our military's ability to radically alter its own supply chain during a time of military crisis - as opposed to a time of minimal military conflict as we are currently experiencing. If it can achieve that level of global supply for troops at wartime, certainly it can be of SOME use in helping get masks and ventilators to Michigan.
Don't misunderstand me. I come from a military family, I was raised my a USMC GySgt who made me pass inspection before attending church on Sundays. I respect our military, but I am not so naive to believe they could not be more of a resource in this crisis than they are right now if they were to be utilized as such.
To be clear - the military should not be THE supply chain, they should augment the supply chain in whatever way possible.
This is just simply not true. Companies have voluntarily agreed to increase production to half a billion
95 masks. Companies are CALLING the whitehouse offering to make PPE, Ventilators respirators etc. Why? Because even when this is over there is going to be tens of billions of dollars in contracts replenishing the strategic stockpile!
I got an email from harbor freight. They're donating their masks. Facebook donated their masks etc. Etc. So when they call saying "Mr. President... we want to give the feds my entire supply" hes supposed to hang up on them and write an executive order just to say it was taken under the DPA?
So, companies are dramatically increasing their productive capacity. We are 8 weeks from patient zero in US. If a plant agrees to quadruple production, that's still going to take time to MAKE, PACK, AND SHIP the new supply. I think they said today we've shipped ssd's ome 20 million surgical masks and 9 million n95 respirators millions of gloves and gowns. And that's not including all the purchases @ the state level by governors. The idea that were just sitting around twiddling our thumbs waiting on 3m to make the same 2 million masks they would have made anyway this month just isn't the case. Were going to need hundreds of millions of units of product and our previous capacity per month was a fraction of that. Water doesnt boil faster if your in a hurry.
You're talking about production. I'm talking about aiding distribution. This is the third time you've been unable to distinguish between the two simple concepts in this thread. Figure it out.
(03-25-2020, 08:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 08:52 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]This is just simply not true. Companies have voluntarily agreed to increase production to half a billion
95 masks. Companies are CALLING the whitehouse offering to make PPE, Ventilators respirators etc. Why? Because even when this is over there is going to be tens of billions of dollars in contracts replenishing the strategic stockpile!
I got an email from harbor freight. They're donating their masks. Facebook donated their masks etc. Etc. So when they call saying "Mr. President... we want to give the feds my entire supply" hes supposed to hang up on them and write an executive order just to say it was taken under the DPA?
So, companies are dramatically increasing their productive capacity. We are 8 weeks from patient zero in US. If a plant agrees to quadruple production, that's still going to take time to MAKE, PACK, AND SHIP the new supply. I think they said today we've shipped ssd's ome 20 million surgical masks and 9 million n95 respirators millions of gloves and gowns. And that's not including all the purchases @ the state level by governors. The idea that were just sitting around twiddling our thumbs waiting on 3m to make the same 2 million masks they would have made anyway this month just isn't the case. Were going to need hundreds of millions of units of product and our previous capacity per month was a fraction of that. Water doesnt boil faster if your in a hurry.
You're talking about production. I'm talking about aiding distribution. This is the third time you've been unable to distinguish between the two simple concepts in this thread. Figure it out.
How are they to distribute what has not been made yet?
(03-25-2020, 09:01 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 08:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You're talking about production. I'm talking about aiding distribution. This is the third time you've been unable to distinguish between the two simple concepts in this thread. Figure it out.
How are they to distribute what has not been made yet?
Trump and Fauci have been saying for days that they've acquired ventilators and masks from federal stockpiles and are shipping them out daily.
The problem is that rather than aiding the private sector distribution (which is overwhelmed) they are sending them via said backlogged chain.
For instance, Fauci was on newshour just minutes ago acknowledging that several areas are in need of tests, masks, ventilators, and various PPE items and they are sending them - but he is unable to give any timeframe on when they may arrive where.
(03-25-2020, 06:01 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 04:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]False.
If you have figured out a way to evade sales and payroll taxes, let me know.
If you're renting, you're still paying property tax, you understand. The landlord pays that tax out of your rent, not the goodness of his heart...
Everybody pays taxes.
But not everybody pays federal income tax.
so it can be said that both, one or neither is paying it. It’s getting paid. But it’s really up to whoever’s argument to say which one is really paying it. Ultimately, in your scenario, I’d say the owner is paying it. After all, it’s his/her property. But, it can be argued.
(03-25-2020, 09:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 09:01 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]How are they to distribute what has not been made yet?
Trump and Fauci have been saying for days that they've acquired ventilators and masks from federal stockpiles and are shipping them out daily.
The problem is that rather than aiding the private sector distribution (which is overwhelmed) they are sending them via said backlogged chain.
For instance, Fauci was on newshour just minutes ago acknowledging that several areas are in need of tests, masks, ventilators, and various PPE items and they are sending them - but he is unable to give any timeframe on when they may arrive where.
Didn't hear the interview, but this sounds a little like, "The check is in the mail". Was he asked any the obvious follow-up questions;
1) When did/will the possession of the supplies pass to the transport company?
2) What transport company is being utilized?
3) Who is the individual in charge of shipping logistics?
(03-25-2020, 10:27 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 09:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Trump and Fauci have been saying for days that they've acquired ventilators and masks from federal stockpiles and are shipping them out daily.
The problem is that rather than aiding the private sector distribution (which is overwhelmed) they are sending them via said backlogged chain.
For instance, Fauci was on newshour just minutes ago acknowledging that several areas are in need of tests, masks, ventilators, and various PPE items and they are sending them - but he is unable to give any timeframe on when they may arrive where.
Didn't hear the interview, but this sounds a little like, "The check is in the mail". Was he asked any the obvious follow-up questions;
1) When did/will the possession of the supplies pass to the transport company?
2) What transport company is being utilized?
3) Who is the individual in charge of shipping logistics?
And why would you expect Fauci to know that? Does Jeff Bezos know when your Amazon order is scheduled to arrive?
(03-25-2020, 09:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 09:01 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]How are they to distribute what has not been made yet?
Trump and Fauci have been saying for days that they've acquired ventilators and masks from federal stockpiles and are shipping them out daily.
The problem is that rather than aiding the private sector distribution (which is overwhelmed) they are sending them via said backlogged chain.
For instance, Fauci was on newshour just minutes ago acknowledging that several areas are in need of tests, masks, ventilators, and various PPE items and they are sending them - but he is unable to give any timeframe on when they may arrive where.
To my knowledge, Fema has it's own method of distribution. When they load up materials for transport those are delivered by federal transport not private sector. If they were private sector, then they would have tracking. Ron DeSantis lamented the fact that as private consumers we have a greater amount of tracking capability for our products from amazon than he does waiting on stockpiles of PPE from fema.
Most if not all problems right now are based on scarcity of supply. Theres not 30k ventilators earmarked for NY state and just sitting out on a delivery bay waiting for the UPS guy. They dont exist yet.
And you dont need to invoke the defense production act to load product on a military plane, truck etc.
Also, I'm not sure where u get the idea that military logistics and supply is a panacea. When Trump took office we were running short of AMMO, soldiers were chronically beseeching their families for toiletries etc. Look at the VA.
NY right now is testing more people on a per capital basis than any place in the world. Under the current design of our test that puts an inordinate burn rate on PPE. That's going to be best eased by the new self swab tests that will allow patients to collect their own samples. Seal them in a bag and then have hc workers handle them with gloves. The current doctrine of burning so much material to prove 93% (72% in ny) of all test subjects DONT have COVID 19 is actually very inefficient.
(03-26-2020, 03:26 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2020, 09:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Trump and Fauci have been saying for days that they've acquired ventilators and masks from federal stockpiles and are shipping them out daily.
The problem is that rather than aiding the private sector distribution (which is overwhelmed) they are sending them via said backlogged chain.
For instance, Fauci was on newshour just minutes ago acknowledging that several areas are in need of tests, masks, ventilators, and various PPE items and they are sending them - but he is unable to give any timeframe on when they may arrive where.
To my knowledge, Fema has it's own method of distribution. When they load up materials for transport those are delivered by federal transport not private sector. If they were private sector, then they would have tracking. Ron DeSantis lamented the fact that as private consumers we have a greater amount of tracking capability for our products from amazon than he does waiting on stockpiles of PPE from fema.
Most if not all problems right now are based on scarcity of supply. Theres not 30k ventilators earmarked for NY state and just sitting out on a delivery bay waiting for the UPS guy. They dont exist yet.
And you dont need to invoke the defense production act to load product on a military plane, truck etc.
Also, I'm not sure where u get the idea that military logistics and supply is a panacea. When Trump took office we were running short of AMMO, soldiers were chronically beseeching their families for toiletries etc. Look at the VA.
NY right now is testing more people on a per capital basis than any place in the world. Under the current design of our test that puts an inordinate burn rate on PPE. That's going to be best eased by the new self swab tests that will allow patients to collect their own samples. Seal them in a bag and then have hc workers handle them with gloves. The current doctrine of burning so much material to prove 93% (72% in ny) of all test subjects DONT have COVID 19 is actually very inefficient.
Distribution is more of an issue for PPE (especially masks) than production. This is a fact and you are trying to sweep it under the rug.
And feel free to elaborate on this FEMA distribution that's "to your knowledge."
The facts are that the legislation calls for the federal government to aid distribution and it isn't happening.
Please tell me how incredibly logistically difficult it would be for our military to use planes and trucks to move federally supplied or federally collected PPE to airports or distribution centers as near their final destination as possible. I'd love to hear why that's so impossible.
Panacea? Are you joking? We're talking about a dozen or so planes and maybe 40 trucks. Just enough to alleviate the most clogged arteries in the private sector supply chain. Oh, what a strain that would place on our military's capabilities. Please.
Every day that these doctors, nurses, techs, and employees expose themselves repeatedly to this virus because they are under-equipped - it is going to ultimately cost lives. That's unacceptable. Asking for a common sense measure to prevent it , THAT IS PROVIDED FOR IN THE LETTER OF THE LAW TRUMP ENACTED, seems like the most basic sensible request.
And you somehow think it's too much.