I would argue there is much more misinformation about vaccines and covid. I can't say it's necessarily worse, because some of the anti-vax stuff I've seen makes my eyes roll, but there is definitely enough to go around.
The vaccine doesn't give immunity. It doesn't prevent spread. It's longevity is not as durable as we initially thought. It is not as robust as natural immunity. This is in addition to the misinformation going around about Covid itself. It's not a death sentence. You're odds of surviving is ridiculously high, which should only get better as people develop immunity. There's a new study done that suggests that 1/3 of Americans got Covid last year, which makes the case fatality rate even lower than what we though (which wasn't that high to begin with). When you combine that, with those who chose to get vaccinated with the people that caught Delta, this thing is on track to be somewhere between the common cold and common flu when all is said and done.
We did just fine with voluntary flu vaccines. We will do just fine with voluntary covid vaccines. The people that don't understand this are woefully misinformed. To make it worse, they WANT to stay misinformed. It doesn't matter how much the information is shared. It's easier to fool people than to convince them they are being fooled. Isn't that how that quote goes?
(08-29-2021, 06:16 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]The Secretary of Education under Obama:
https://twitter.com/arneduncan/status/14...00612?s=20
This is where the bad policy comes from. They see all dissent as rebellion, and none of it as worthy of consideration. That's authoritarianism.
(08-29-2021, 06:06 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-29-2021, 12:19 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You think I'm not? You don't think the massive disinformation going on around here from kooks like RFK Jr and Alex Jones and Mike Adams that show up in the postings of Ronster and P-Rush and the like aren't tiresome? L2L and I disagree but the disagreement is in good faith. Discussion is what is helpful, not accusations and all the political nonsense going on, but some people are so convinced that everyone hates them and wants them to die that they must ignore reality in order to satisfy their fantasies.
I'm sick and tired of people berating me for making my health a priority because it doesn't fit with the status quo. The status quo and everyone demanding people like me to get a vaccine that would do more harm than good can kiss my [BLEEP].
I got Covid a month ago and survived it just fine. I did my due diligence and stayed home for at least 12 days. When I started to go out and about again I wore a mask just to be sure.
Misinformation is definitely a problem, but not all of those not getting vaccinated can be attributed to misinformation. People need to accept that and leave it alone.
(08-29-2021, 05:23 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]It means if you REALLY can't get the shot, wear a [BLEEP] mask and practice social distancing.
PS: wear a mask indoors in public regardless.
I know what to do so leave me the [BLEEP] alone about the vaccine. I'm not a [BLEEP] moron.
REALLY.
I lost a good friend, one half of a couple who didn't think they could get the vaccine. Their daughter didn't think she needed it, contracted covid gave it to her parents, killing the mother and putting the father in the ICU for 40 days. That family will never be the same.
They claim their doctor told them they couldn't get the vaccine because they had compromised immune systems which of course is [BLEEP].
I'm not going to shut up about it but I'll stop directing these replies to you specifically.
(08-29-2021, 07:23 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (08-29-2021, 06:06 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sick and tired of people berating me for making my health a priority because it doesn't fit with the status quo. The status quo and everyone demanding people like me to get a vaccine that would do more harm than good can kiss my [BLEEP].
I got Covid a month ago and survived it just fine. I did my due diligence and stayed home for at least 12 days. When I started to go out and about again I wore a mask just to be sure.
Misinformation is definitely a problem, but not all of those not getting vaccinated can be attributed to misinformation. People need to accept that and leave it alone.
I know what to do so leave me the [BLEEP] alone about the vaccine. I'm not a [BLEEP] moron.
REALLY.
I lost a good friend, one half of a couple who didn't think they could get the vaccine. Their daughter didn't think she needed it, contracted covid gave it to her parents, killing the mother and putting the father in the ICU for 40 days. That family will never be the same.
They claim their doctor told them they couldn't get the vaccine because they had compromised immune systems which of course is [BLEEP].
I'm not going to shut up about it but I'll stop directing these replies to you specifically.
One thing about doctors and nurses. They always seem to have different opinions. Which is why there's always someone looking to get a second opinion on a disgnosis. Having a family full of doctors and nurses (including my wife), they bicker with each other all the time over prognosis. It's in their nature, as they always want what's best for the patient. So what your doc or nurse says, could be completely different from what her doc or nurse says.
You have to trust someone..
(08-29-2021, 07:30 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (08-29-2021, 07:23 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I lost a good friend, one half of a couple who didn't think they could get the vaccine. Their daughter didn't think she needed it, contracted covid gave it to her parents, killing the mother and putting the father in the ICU for 40 days. That family will never be the same.
They claim their doctor told them they couldn't get the vaccine because they had compromised immune systems which of course is [BLEEP].
I'm not going to shut up about it but I'll stop directing these replies to you specifically.
One thing about doctors and nurses. They always seem to have different opinions. Which is why there's always someone looking to get a second opinion on a disgnosis. Having a family full of doctors and nurses (including my wife), they bicker with each other all the time over prognosis. It's in their nature, as they always want what's best for the patient. So what your doc or nurse says, could be completely different from what her doc or nurse says.
You have to trust someone..
Agreed. I'd say follow the science. Doctors, general practitioners at least, aren't really experts in the fields of immunology and infectious diseases. So if a GP is recommending something that goes counter to what specialists in the field are saying, I'd take it with a very large grain of salt.
Depends on how much time your doctor is putting in to understand this disease. Sorry for you loss. However, you're overlooking the obvious: they had compromised immune systems. If the doctor was concerned enough about it to recommend holding off, the vaccine might have had a similar outcome. I had a friend with a heart condition that died six hours after taking the second dose. He was taking the vaccine to be safe. Most people who are hit hard by the vaccine and the disease have some underlying issue. If they had taken the vaccine and one of them died, would you blame the vaccine? Also, keep in mind the daughter was going to spread it, vaccinated or not.
Again, really sorry to hear about your friends. It's always hard. I'm not trying to make any kind of medical diagnosis. Just offering an alternate hypothesis. I just had a friend die from Covid, too. He was in getting chemo treatment from cancer. He was notdoing well with his treatments. Got covid at the wrong time. Not sure if he was vaccinated or not.
Also, to be fair to MarleyJag, if Americus handled Covid just fine, I'd imagine she'd be alright with the vaccine. I'm getting out of my element here a bit, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd be curious if she made a lot of antibodies from Covid. She said it was relatively mild, which makes me think she didn't need to produce a lot of them. It may be that her t-cells did what they needed to do. The vaccine focuses strictly on antibodies. Either way, the data is really looking like natural immunity is superior to the vaccine, so why be insistent that recovering patients take the vaccine? It doesn't make any sense, and other many other countries don't require it.
I think this study is a potential game changer:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-0...Le-3o#Sec5
(08-29-2021, 10:24 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Also, to be fair to MarleyJag, if Americus handled Covid just fine, I'd imagine she'd be alright with the vaccine. I'm getting out of my element here a bit, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd be curious if she made a lot of antibodies from Covid. She said it was relatively mild, which makes me think she didn't need to produce a lot of them. It may be that her t-cells did what they needed to do. The vaccine focuses strictly on antibodies. Either way, the data is really looking like natural immunity is superior to the vaccine, so why be insistent that recovering patients take the vaccine? It doesn't make any sense, and other many other countries don't require it.
I think this study is a potential game changer:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-0...Le-3o#Sec5
I've thought about getting an antibody test because I'm curious. Covid sucked but it really was a relatively mild case. I'm not one who gets the seasonal flu or cold or anything like that so to say it's the sickest I've ever been is accurate but relative to me, but by no means was it as bad as what I've heard from friends, family and others.
I've never responded well to any vaccines so it's not that I'm specifically against a Covid vax, I don't get
any vaccines. Am I comfortable with the speed of how this vax was made and how it affects people short and long term? No. Do I care if others get it? No. That's
their personal decision. My personal decision, backed by my doctor who does take the time to read the information, is to decline it just like I decline the flu vax, the shingles vax, and the pneumonia vax every single year.
(08-30-2021, 12:15 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-29-2021, 10:24 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Also, to be fair to MarleyJag, if Americus handled Covid just fine, I'd imagine she'd be alright with the vaccine. I'm getting out of my element here a bit, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd be curious if she made a lot of antibodies from Covid. She said it was relatively mild, which makes me think she didn't need to produce a lot of them. It may be that her t-cells did what they needed to do. The vaccine focuses strictly on antibodies. Either way, the data is really looking like natural immunity is superior to the vaccine, so why be insistent that recovering patients take the vaccine? It doesn't make any sense, and other many other countries don't require it.
I think this study is a potential game changer:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-0...Le-3o#Sec5
I've thought about getting an antibody test because I'm curious. Covid sucked but it really was a relatively mild case. I'm not one who gets the seasonal flu or cold or anything like that so to say it's the sickest I've ever been is accurate but relative to me, but by no means was it as bad as what I've heard from friends, family and others.
I've never responded well to any vaccines so it's not that I'm specifically against a Covid vax, I don't get any vaccines. Am I comfortable with the speed of how this vax was made and how it affects people short and long term? No. Do I care if others get it? No. That's their personal decision. My personal decision, backed by my doctor who does take the time to read the information, is to decline it just like I decline the flu vax, the shingles vax, and the pneumonia vax every single year.
I was today years old when I learned there was a pneumonia vax
(08-30-2021, 12:19 PM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 12:15 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I've thought about getting an antibody test because I'm curious. Covid sucked but it really was a relatively mild case. I'm not one who gets the seasonal flu or cold or anything like that so to say it's the sickest I've ever been is accurate but relative to me, but by no means was it as bad as what I've heard from friends, family and others.
I've never responded well to any vaccines so it's not that I'm specifically against a Covid vax, I don't get any vaccines. Am I comfortable with the speed of how this vax was made and how it affects people short and long term? No. Do I care if others get it? No. That's their personal decision. My personal decision, backed by my doctor who does take the time to read the information, is to decline it just like I decline the flu vax, the shingles vax, and the pneumonia vax every single year.
I was today years old when I learned there was a pneumonia vax
Yes, there's one that is a "once a lifetime" shot and the other is "twice a lifetime at least 10 years apart."
(08-30-2021, 12:19 PM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 12:15 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I've thought about getting an antibody test because I'm curious. Covid sucked but it really was a relatively mild case. I'm not one who gets the seasonal flu or cold or anything like that so to say it's the sickest I've ever been is accurate but relative to me, but by no means was it as bad as what I've heard from friends, family and others.
I've never responded well to any vaccines so it's not that I'm specifically against a Covid vax, I don't get any vaccines. Am I comfortable with the speed of how this vax was made and how it affects people short and long term? No. Do I care if others get it? No. That's their personal decision. My personal decision, backed by my doctor who does take the time to read the information, is to decline it just like I decline the flu vax, the shingles vax, and the pneumonia vax every single year.
I was today years old when I learned there was a pneumonia vax
My mom told me about it earlier this year. I was like-
what did you say? I had no idea. Lol
(08-30-2021, 01:31 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 12:19 PM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ]I was today years old when I learned there was a pneumonia vax
Yes, there's one that is a "once a lifetime" shot and the other is "twice a lifetime at least 10 years apart."
I got the pneumonia vax which I hardly noticed. I have no problem getting that again in 10 years. Shingrix was the only vax that actually made me feel sick. It was pretty rough for about 24 hours but better than getting shingles IMO.
If I get that there Dengue fever I'm immune for life... 'cept for the other 3 serotypes.
If I get that there COVID-19 I'm immune for... who knows..
If I get that there COVID-19 vaccine I'm not immune, at all in any sense of the word, for... always.
A vaccine should, by definition, grant immunity. Let's go back to variolation!
(08-30-2021, 03:19 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]If I get that there Dengue fever I'm immune for life... 'cept for the other 3 serotypes.
If I get that there COVID-19 I'm immune for... who knows..
If I get that there COVID-19 vaccine I'm not immune, at all in any sense of the word, for... always.
A vaccine should, by definition, grant immunity. Let's go back to variolation!
You do know that uh...you are supposed to get boosters for your vaccines, yes?
(08-30-2021, 02:37 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 01:31 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, there's one that is a "once a lifetime" shot and the other is "twice a lifetime at least 10 years apart."
I got the pneumonia vax which I hardly noticed. I have no problem getting that again in 10 years. Shingrix was the only vax that actually made me feel sick. It was pretty rough for about 24 hours but better than getting shingles IMO.
I have a friend who's had the Shingles for almost 6 months. It's terrible.
(08-30-2021, 03:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 03:19 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]If I get that there Dengue fever I'm immune for life... 'cept for the other 3 serotypes.
If I get that there COVID-19 I'm immune for... who knows..
If I get that there COVID-19 vaccine I'm not immune, at all in any sense of the word, for... always.
A vaccine should, by definition, grant immunity. Let's go back to variolation!
You do know that uh...you are supposed to get boosters for your vaccines, yes?
You mean I'm not longer immune to Mumps, Measles and Rubella? OH NO!
Shoulda said OH MY!
(08-30-2021, 03:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 02:37 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I got the pneumonia vax which I hardly noticed. I have no problem getting that again in 10 years. Shingrix was the only vax that actually made me feel sick. It was pretty rough for about 24 hours but better than getting shingles IMO.
I have a friend who's had the Shingles for almost 6 months. It's terrible.
Yeah from what I've heard you definitely want to avoid it if possible.
(08-30-2021, 03:23 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 03:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You do know that uh...you are supposed to get boosters for your vaccines, yes?
You mean I'm not longer immune to Mumps, Measles and Rubella? OH NO!
Shoulda said OH MY!
In a perfect world...
(08-30-2021, 03:23 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 03:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You do know that uh...you are supposed to get boosters for your vaccines, yes?
You mean I'm not longer immune to Mumps, Measles and Rubella? OH NO!
Possibly. The good news is the anti-vaxxers are creating enclaves of high risk areas for outbreaks of those diseases, so if you're anxious to go blind, sterile, or help cause miscarriages or CRS then you're in luck! It's weird that we've become so blind to our good medical fortune that we act like these diseases that were the scourge of our forbearers are just not dangerous now.
(08-30-2021, 03:30 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2021, 03:23 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]You mean I'm not longer immune to Mumps, Measles and Rubella? OH NO!
Possibly. The good news is the anti-vaxxers are creating enclaves of high risk areas for outbreaks of those diseases, so if you're anxious to go blind, sterile, or help cause miscarriages or CRS then you're in luck! It's weird that we've become so blind to our good medical fortune that we act like these diseases that were the scourge of our forbearers are just not dangerous now.
I think you may not know this... a lot of people.. a LOT of people.. Don't even know what PCP stands for. They think it means angel dust.
The last time I had vaccinations was 'cause the public indoctrination centers made me take them so I could assimilate with the rest of middle america.
And for a lot of people? It's the same exact way.
If you're gonna call something a vaccination - it should provide immunity. That's all.. This is NOT a vaccine. It's a synthetic nucleotide that allows you to get infected but at a HOPEFULLY lesser way than you would have before - because the hope is not enough of the spike protein will be able to latch on enough important cells.......... that's not a vaccine. In fact, it just allows it to propagate and mutate at will.
I had shingles around my torso when I was in 6th grade, I vividly remember how much they sucked! Yes, it’s rare to get them that you, but it does happen. I also had mono in the 2nd grade too…which was fun too.
(08-29-2021, 04:23 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-29-2021, 03:27 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Government needs to keep this coffers open for big pharma.
It will be interesting to see how the vaxxed respond to the call for boosters every 5 months.
Being a "vaxxed" person myself I'm not in a big hurry to get another shot... yet I've seen 2 people in my personal life succumb to this virus. One was a man near my age (late 50's early 60's) and a mother of three young children only 40 years of age.
This virus is no joke and is not "just the flu" as I and many others thought.
I also know of one person in their 20's that is having serious problems supposedly due to the vaccine. It's not clear if he had other health problems prior to the vaccine, but he is experiencing serious heart problems right now.
I'm just not so sure that I want to get a booster right now.
Good on ya JIB. One of the only people I've seen on this board (or anywhere) willing to admit this.
(08-30-2021, 03:58 PM)Bchbunnie4 Wrote: [ -> ]I had shingles around my torso when I was in 6th grade, I vividly remember how much they sucked! Yes, it’s rare to get them that you, but it does happen. I also had mono in the 2nd grade too…which was fun too.
Sounds like you were quite the promiscuous 2nd grader.
.gif "Laughing")
We used to call mono the "kissing disease".