(04-14-2020, 05:39 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2020, 05:36 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Wait.... so the far right and far left people are basically the same?!
Depends, are you in favor of mutiny?
I’ll get my popcorn ready!
(04-14-2020, 05:33 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2020, 05:28 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]You're right, don't overthink it. What exactly does "reopening the country" mean? Telling states what they can or cannot do or perhaps opening up for travel from foreign countries? There has been no case where The President's direction has been contradicted by State Governors. As of matter of fact as I said before, his administration is working directly with State Governors. "Opening up the country" does not mean telling State Governors what to do or not do.
If you are honest with yourself you should see that The President has been working with governors, and backing their decision(s) regarding this whole thing. This is generally contrary to leftists in this country that want to take power away from the states rather then empower them.
You have to put things in perspective and think about the roles of the federal government, state governments and in some cases local government.
Something like this is why Senators should not be elected by the public.
Sorry, JIB - the pessimist in me is deafened from the outrage that would be coming from the right had Obama said something even remotely similar. I know his administration has been working with governors.
Trump is careless with his rhetoric at the absolute wrong time. Take, for example, his recent comparison of himself to Cpt. Bligh. 25,000 Americans are dead.
No big deal. The President has simply taken steps to point out how wrong the media is. He has taken steps to point out how biased and wrong they are. He has done that in spite (or despite?) how the left wing media "reports" what he says and does. Is that "careless rhetoric"?
Come on Gabe, you are better than that.
Perhaps Trump is just late because hes a busy man. But I swear the briefings have all been starting around 530 give or take. I wonder if he’s got them sitting in those uncomfortable metal chairs and just making the reporters wait for an hour. That would be funny.
If j had to guess, I'd bet hes talking about withdrawing emergency declarations.
(04-14-2020, 05:13 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]Quick question, has anyone here actually gotten a stimulus check or know someone who has? I keep seeing stories online saying the IRs started doing it, but I haven't met anyone who actually got a check yet.
My Son got his direct deposited first thing this morning.
My youngest daughter got her money direct deposited this morning, as well. I think age should have priority. Brats!
Jib he said openly he believes that he as the head of executive branch has the power to dictate to the states when to open up. I don’t think Trump is stupid so I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he understand what he is claiming is in defiance of every conservative principle. I’m loyal to no politician when they stop representing my core beliefs I stop supporting them. Trump is taking on the belief in federal power over State power that is a centralist authoritarian position.
I can no longer support trump for that primary reason, that doesn’t mean I default to the democrats it simply means I can admit and recognize this guy is no longer representing the principles in which I support. Central government is the antithesis of all my libertarian beliefs.
E executive branch does not holed total power it’s not a trickle down power system. The moment the right accepts one of their own is going to assume the role of trickle down power we’re in big trouble. I applaud the republican representatives like Rubio and Paul that have objected to that statement.
(04-14-2020, 06:38 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]My youngest daughter got her money direct deposited this morning, as well. I think age should have priority. Brats!
Maybe they’re assuming Covid-19 took care of them first.
(04-14-2020, 08:26 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Jib he said openly he believes that he as the head of executive branch has the power to dictate to the states when to open up. I don’t think Trump is stupid so I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he understand what he is claiming is in defiance of every conservative principle. I’m loyal to no politician when they stop representing my core beliefs I stop supporting them. Trump is taking on the belief in federal power over State power that is a centralist authoritarian position.
I can no longer support trump for that primary reason, that doesn’t mean I default to the democrats it simply means I can admit and recognize this guy is no longer representing the principles in which I support. Central government is the antithesis of all my libertarian beliefs.
E executive branch does not holed total power it’s not a trickle down power system. The moment the right accepts one of their own is going to assume the role of trickle down power we’re in big trouble. I applaud the republican representatives like Rubio and Paul that have objected to that statement.
You have a bunch of valid reasons for objecting to Trump.
You're correct that his threats to overrule state governors are not constitutional.
But the constitution you're defending is more than the seven articles and 27 amendments that we call the "US Constitution".
A Constitution is every law and every process that We the People have to navigate as we try to get the laws we want passed and enforced.
So the US Constitution is also:
- the state laws that give all Presidential electors to the plurality winner of a statewide election for President.
- The rules of the Republican National Convention and the Democratic National Convention.
- The Presidential preference primaries we vote in, and
- All of the primary elections for Senate, House, and state legislature.
It's all the things that give us a two party system.
So, if you claim to defend the US Constitution, and you say that one of our officials is not defending it, your only choice in the short-term is to vote for that guy's major party opponent next election.
Voting third party or staying home is only defensible if you think the leading candidates are equal. If you don't care which one of them wins.
Reading all this might make you think, "I don't have to agree with that system, I want to change it." Good! Go collect signatures to amend our state constitution in ways that will weaken the two-party system. Find and support candidates for state legislature that want to amend the US Constitution in ways that create chances for third parties.
But voting for a third party, at this point, is working against the US Constitution, not upholding it.
(04-06-2020, 10:15 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea I’m not looking for the doctors to make economic policy I think Fauci has done an incredible job of being honest and upfront on what we have to do from a medical standpoint to stop this virus. I’m concerned that so many on the right are looking to down play the threat of a global pandemic to build an argument of over reaction. It’s a bad virus with no cure and is highly contagious even with heavy mitigation never done before you have more infected and dead than the entire year of swine flu my God imagine if we didn’t take the mitigation moves how bad it would be?
Economies can be rebuilt lives can’t be resurrected it’s that simple.
Why did the Governors have to request federal declarations of Emergency? Who did they request them from? What's the GDP of NY state? How much would it cost to subsidize 25 to 50% of that #? Where would that money come from.
(04-14-2020, 09:31 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2020, 10:15 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea I’m not looking for the doctors to make economic policy I think Fauci has done an incredible job of being honest and upfront on what we have to do from a medical standpoint to stop this virus. I’m concerned that so many on the right are looking to down play the threat of a global pandemic to build an argument of over reaction. It’s a bad virus with no cure and is highly contagious even with heavy mitigation never done before you have more infected and dead than the entire year of swine flu my God imagine if we didn’t take the mitigation moves how bad it would be?
Economies can be rebuilt lives can’t be resurrected it’s that simple.
Why did the Governors have to request federal declarations of Emergency? Who did they request them from? What's the GDP of NY state? How much would it cost to subsidize 25 to 50% of that #? Where would that money come from.
I think you are confusing emergency orders with disaster declarations.
As far as some states subsidizing others, the wildly wealthy people in New York City have been paying out more in federal taxes than they receive in federal benefits for decades.
(04-14-2020, 05:54 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2020, 05:33 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, JIB - the pessimist in me is deafened from the outrage that would be coming from the right had Obama said something even remotely similar. I know his administration has been working with governors.
Trump is careless with his rhetoric at the absolute wrong time. Take, for example, his recent comparison of himself to Cpt. Bligh. 25,000 Americans are dead.
No big deal. The President has simply taken steps to point out how wrong the media is. He has taken steps to point out how biased and wrong they are. He has done that in spite (or despite?) how the left wing media "reports" what he says and does. Is that "careless rhetoric"?
Come on Gabe, you are better than that.
It's very apparent that we will not agree on what is considered careless rhetoric, JIB.
(04-14-2020, 09:56 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2020, 09:31 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Why did the Governors have to request federal declarations of Emergency? Who did they request them from? What's the GDP of NY state? How much would it cost to subsidize 25 to 50% of that #? Where would that money come from.
I think you are confusing emergency orders with disaster declarations.
As far as some states subsidizing others, the wildly wealthy people in New York City have been paying out more in federal taxes than they receive in federal benefits for decades.
You didnt answer the questions.
Major disaster declaration is the correct term, granted. That doesnt change the point.
(04-14-2020, 10:13 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2020, 05:54 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]No big deal. The President has simply taken steps to point out how wrong the media is. He has taken steps to point out how biased and wrong they are. He has done that in spite (or despite?) how the left wing media "reports" what he says and does. Is that "careless rhetoric"?
Come on Gabe, you are better than that.
It's very apparent that we will not agree on what is considered careless rhetoric, JIB.
You're free to answer the burning questions too.
(04-14-2020, 09:31 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2020, 10:15 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea I’m not looking for the doctors to make economic policy I think Fauci has done an incredible job of being honest and upfront on what we have to do from a medical standpoint to stop this virus. I’m concerned that so many on the right are looking to down play the threat of a global pandemic to build an argument of over reaction. It’s a bad virus with no cure and is highly contagious even with heavy mitigation never done before you have more infected and dead than the entire year of swine flu my God imagine if we didn’t take the mitigation moves how bad it would be?
Economies can be rebuilt lives can’t be resurrected it’s that simple.
Why did the Governors have to request federal declarations of Emergency? Who did they request them from? What's the GDP of NY state? How much would it cost to subsidize 25 to 50% of that #? Where would that money come from.
From my limited understanding governors have to declare emergency’s in order to qualify for assistance from FEMA I have no idea what NY GDP is. So what if we enter into an economic recession or depression, the world didn’t end during the last one either. It’ll be painful it’ll be costly but you can rebuild economies. If you don’t believe that then you don’t have faith in a free market system.
What you can’t do is raise people from the dead, we’re quickly approaching 30k dead in what 45 days? And that’s with this unprecedented stay at home orders all over the country? Open up and watch it spread like wildfire your talking about watching generations die, I’m not ok with that. I don’t think the public will behave and follow common sense either, that’s ludicrous to think we can self monitor this thing.
I don’t know what the solution is but listening to Hannity and Limbaugh (like I always have) down play this virus is very concerning.
(04-14-2020, 09:22 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2020, 08:26 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Jib he said openly he believes that he as the head of executive branch has the power to dictate to the states when to open up. I don’t think Trump is stupid so I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he understand what he is claiming is in defiance of every conservative principle. I’m loyal to no politician when they stop representing my core beliefs I stop supporting them. Trump is taking on the belief in federal power over State power that is a centralist authoritarian position.
I can no longer support trump for that primary reason, that doesn’t mean I default to the democrats it simply means I can admit and recognize this guy is no longer representing the principles in which I support. Central government is the antithesis of all my libertarian beliefs.
E executive branch does not holed total power it’s not a trickle down power system. The moment the right accepts one of their own is going to assume the role of trickle down power we’re in big trouble. I applaud the republican representatives like Rubio and Paul that have objected to that statement.
You have a bunch of valid reasons for objecting to Trump.
You're correct that his threats to overrule state governors are not constitutional.
But the constitution you're defending is more than the seven articles and 27 amendments that we call the "US Constitution".
A Constitution is every law and every process that We the People have to navigate as we try to get the laws we want passed and enforced.
So the US Constitution is also:- the state laws that give all Presidential electors to the plurality winner of a statewide election for President.
- The rules of the Republican National Convention and the Democratic National Convention.
- The Presidential preference primaries we vote in, and
- All of the primary elections for Senate, House, and state legislature.
It's all the things that give us a two party system.
So, if you claim to defend the US Constitution, and you say that one of our officials is not defending it, your only choice in the short-term is to vote for that guy's major party opponent next election.
Voting third party or staying home is only defensible if you think the leading candidates are equal. If you don't care which one of them wins.
Reading all this might make you think, "I don't have to agree with that system, I want to change it." Good! Go collect signatures to amend our state constitution in ways that will weaken the two-party system. Find and support candidates for state legislature that want to amend the US Constitution in ways that create chances for third parties.
But voting for a third party, at this point, is working against the US Constitution, not upholding it.
I’ll concede not voting (the choice I made in 2008 between McCain and Obama) is counter productive. However I do not view voting Third party a wasted vote or counter productive at all. I read something a few years back about a third party needing 5% or 6% to guarantee a right to national debates the next election cycle, maybe my vote will help build towards that. But as it stands I can’t support Trump and I have zero common ground or goals with Biden
(04-14-2020, 11:11 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2020, 09:31 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Why did the Governors have to request federal declarations of Emergency? Who did they request them from? What's the GDP of NY state? How much would it cost to subsidize 25 to 50% of that #? Where would that money come from.
From my limited understanding governors have to declare emergency’s in order to qualify for assistance from FEMA I have no idea what NY GDP is. So what if we enter into an economic recession or depression, the world didn’t end during the last one either. It’ll be painful it’ll be costly but you can rebuild economies. If you don’t believe that then you don’t have faith in a free market system.
What you can’t do is raise people from the dead, we’re quickly approaching 30k dead in what 45 days? And that’s with this unprecedented stay at home orders all over the country? Open up and watch it spread like wildfire your talking about watching generations die, I’m not ok with that. I don’t think the public will behave and follow common sense either, that’s ludicrous to think we can self monitor this thing.
I don’t know what the solution is but listening to Hannity and Limbaugh (like I always have) down play this virus is very concerning.
(04-14-2020, 09:22 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You have a bunch of valid reasons for objecting to Trump.
You're correct that his threats to overrule state governors are not constitutional.
But the constitution you're defending is more than the seven articles and 27 amendments that we call the "US Constitution".
A Constitution is every law and every process that We the People have to navigate as we try to get the laws we want passed and enforced.
So the US Constitution is also:- the state laws that give all Presidential electors to the plurality winner of a statewide election for President.
- The rules of the Republican National Convention and the Democratic National Convention.
- The Presidential preference primaries we vote in, and
- All of the primary elections for Senate, House, and state legislature.
It's all the things that give us a two party system.
So, if you claim to defend the US Constitution, and you say that one of our officials is not defending it, your only choice in the short-term is to vote for that guy's major party opponent next election.
Voting third party or staying home is only defensible if you think the leading candidates are equal. If you don't care which one of them wins.
Reading all this might make you think, "I don't have to agree with that system, I want to change it." Good! Go collect signatures to amend our state constitution in ways that will weaken the two-party system. Find and support candidates for state legislature that want to amend the US Constitution in ways that create chances for third parties.
But voting for a third party, at this point, is working against the US Constitution, not upholding it.
I’ll concede not voting (the choice I made in 2008 between McCain and Obama) is counter productive. However I do not view voting Third party a wasted vote or counter productive at all. I read something a few years back about a third party needing 5% or 6% to guarantee a right to national debates the next election cycle, maybe my vote will help build towards that. But as it stands I can’t support Trump and I have zero common ground or goals with Biden
Boy the propaganda got to you.
(04-14-2020, 11:11 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I’ll concede not voting (the choice I made in 2008 between McCain and Obama) is counter productive. However I do not view voting Third party a wasted vote or counter productive at all. I read something a few years back about a third party needing 5% or 6% to guarantee a right to national debates the next election cycle, maybe my vote will help build towards that. But as it stands I can’t support Trump and I have zero common ground or goals with Biden
Wait until you see what actually happens, you are falling for the left's tricks. Why did it leak that left leaning governors are trying to form a plan? Trump, CDC, and FEMA are finalizing the plan to start 5/1 and rolling out starting 5/15. The plan is leaking out now, so the MSM had to have the Democrats get the jump so Cuomo, I mean Biden, could benefit from getting the plan out. The governors have been involved in the planning, so they knew this was coming.
Trump simply called the left's bluff. He should have just said fine, removed their emergency whatever destination and said get back to work or get left behind. It was all political from both sides, there was little actual policy or real actions being discussed.
(04-14-2020, 11:41 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Boy the propaganda got to you.
How? I’m only going off what I’ve heard trump say live in his briefings. How is his view not a centralist view?
Take his party out of it, transpose those same words and put an Obama quote around it, you ok with it?
Total power? Ha no thanks
(04-15-2020, 01:05 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2020, 11:11 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I’ll concede not voting (the choice I made in 2008 between McCain and Obama) is counter productive. However I do not view voting Third party a wasted vote or counter productive at all. I read something a few years back about a third party needing 5% or 6% to guarantee a right to national debates the next election cycle, maybe my vote will help build towards that. But as it stands I can’t support Trump and I have zero common ground or goals with Biden
Wait until you see what actually happens, you are falling for the left's tricks. Why did it leak that left leaning governors are trying to form a plan? Trump, CDC, and FEMA are finalizing the plan to start 5/1 and rolling out starting 5/15. The plan is leaking out now, so the MSM had to have the Democrats get the jump so Cuomo, I mean Biden, could benefit from getting the plan out. The governors have been involved in the planning, so they knew this was coming.
Trump simply called the left's bluff. He should have just said fine, removed their emergency whatever destination and said get back to work or get left behind. It was all political from both sides, there was little actual policy or real actions being discussed.
the lefts trick was convincing you guys Trump is a republican. He’s spending more than ever, expanding federal power more than ever, and just told you he has total power.