Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(04-08-2020, 11:05 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-07-2020, 11:18 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]This is annoying. I appreciate transparency, but marking every death that way is going to skew the data... unless there is more to that clip where she explains herself. I don't understand what we are doing. Where are the antibody tests? I would pay out of pocket for one. I'm sure a lot of people would.

But it was always understood that it would be measured that way.  We heard from the beginning, this disease, like any other, is especially deadly for people with preexisting conditions.  What did you think that meant?  Do you think that if someone has diabetes, and gets Covid-19 and dies, that should be counted as a death from diabetes?  They measure flu deaths the same way.  The flu is deadly for people with preexisting conditions.  Exact same thing.  If someone with diabetes gets the flu and dies, then they died of the flu.  

Why all this obsession with lowering the count?  They count this the same way they count everything else.

If someone has a heart attack and dies when COVID is present that death is counted as COVID. "Present" and "Cause" are being conflated to inflate the numbers.

(04-08-2020, 11:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-08-2020, 11:05 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]But it was always understood that it would be measured that way.  We heard from the beginning, this disease, like any other, is especially deadly for people with preexisting conditions.  What did you think that meant?  Do you think that if someone has diabetes, and gets Covid-19 and dies, that should be counted as a death from diabetes?  They measure flu deaths the same way.  The flu is deadly for people with preexisting conditions.  Exact same thing.  If someone with diabetes gets the flu and dies, then they died of the flu.  

Why all this obsession with lowering the count?  They count this the same way they count everything else.

If someone has a heart attack and dies when COVID is present that death is counted as COVID. "Present" and "Cause" are being conflated to inflate the numbers.

Well of course, if they are on a breathing machine, and they can't get enough oxygen, and as a result, they have a heart attack, then that heart attack was caused by Covid-19.  

Now if someone is at home with mild symptoms, and and he goes outside and gets hit by a truck, that would be death from being hit by a truck.  

Do you agree with the above?

Second point: Trump said yesterday that the death count was accurate.  

Third point:  A lot of people are saying we are actually undercounting, that a lot of people are dying without ever being tested for the virus, and those people are not being counted.

This article was removed by Medium for some reason, but the Wayback Machine had a copy.

Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret.

https://web.archive.org/web/202004050614...182386efcb

(04-08-2020, 11:36 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-08-2020, 11:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]If someone has a heart attack and dies when COVID is present that death is counted as COVID. "Present" and "Cause" are being conflated to inflate the numbers.

Well of course, if they are on a breathing machine, and they can't get enough oxygen, and as a result, they have a heart attack, then that heart attack was caused by Covid-19.  

Now if someone is at home with mild symptoms, and and he goes outside and gets hit by a truck, that would be death from being hit by a truck.  

Do you agree with the above?

Second point: Trump said yesterday that the death count was accurate.  

Third point:  A lot of people are saying we are actually undercounting, that a lot of people are dying without ever being tested for the virus, and those people are not being counted.

If a person dies of pneumonia that death is being attributed to COVID without testing. If a patient is in the hospital for COVID and has a heart attack and dies that patient is counted as COVID whether or not that heart attack was attributable to COVID. Soon the suicide rate increase is going to be attributed to COVID as well. All of these things falsely inflate the COVID numbers. 

“An accurate count of the number of deaths due to COVID-19 infection, which depends in part on proper death certification, is critical to ongoing public health surveillance and response,” the updated guidance reads. “Ideally, testing for COVID-19 should be conducted, but it is acceptable to report COVID-19 on a death certificate without this confirmation if the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty.”

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf


Considering the financial aspects that Byron mentioned there is a perverse incentive for inflating those numbers by mushing on the "reasonable degree of certainty." I neither confirm or deny the accuracy of what Trump is saying, merely commenting on the official guidance given by CMS and the CDC in light of my personal knowledge and experience. While under-counting may have been true early on in a few cases, the opposite it true now, we are adding COVID deaths without confirmation.

(04-08-2020, 11:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]If a person dies of pneumonia that death is being attributed to COVID without testing. If a patient is in the hospital for COVID and has a heart attack and dies that patient is counted as COVID whether or not that heart attack was attributable to COVID. Soon the suicide rate increase is going to be attributed to COVID as well. All of these things falsely inflate the COVID numbers. 

So, you are essentially stating the Cancer Deaths are overstated as well since a lot of people that have cancer actually die from pneumonia, heart attacks, and suicide.

Wow, that was a quick fix -- our cancer death rate is now 0%

(04-08-2020, 12:02 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-08-2020, 11:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]If a person dies of pneumonia that death is being attributed to COVID without testing. If a patient is in the hospital for COVID and has a heart attack and dies that patient is counted as COVID whether or not that heart attack was attributable to COVID. Soon the suicide rate increase is going to be attributed to COVID as well. All of these things falsely inflate the COVID numbers. 

So, you are essentially stating the Cancer Deaths are overstated as well since a lot of people that have cancer actually die from pneumonia, heart attacks, and suicide.

Wow, that was a quick fix -- our cancer death rate is now 0%

If a guy with Melanoma has a heart attack and dies, was it Cancer's fault?

If the same guy's doctor stood to make 22% more from the insurance company if it was, would he have a perverse incentive to associate the two?

(04-07-2020, 05:17 PM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]

---

Flattening also means lengthening.

(04-08-2020, 07:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]New IHME model shows an accelerated peak now at April 11th with ~60,400 totals deaths. That's 30,000 fewer deaths projected over the last few days. The daily death peak projection is now down 35% to 2,212 expected in 4 days. Good news as the numbers continue to decline.

(04-08-2020, 12:32 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-07-2020, 05:17 PM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]

---

Flattening also means lengthening.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. You'll scare the children.

With the new models coming out, my 50,000-75,000 guess is going to be too high. I guess we need to just shut everything down and only work from May-Oct every year since the flu kills the same amount every year.

The media certainly isn't doing it's part to help alleviate any fears. My problem is that every morning or mid afternoon when I receive a Jax4news notification update on my phone they only seem to care about reporting two things.

1. Number of overall cases for COVID19.
2. Number of deaths attributed to COVID19.

Where's the news stories about the rates of recovery? Or fully recovered patients? Where is the count on that in their notification updates? Funny, not too long ago, there was a local government official here that had it, and he was then cleared from it within less than a week I believe.

So. [BLEEP] doesn't always add up. And they need to be doing a better job of being honest with the people instead of playing into the fear porn. It's ridiculous. They're all working together. Even on a local news level. There's tons of video snippets on YouTube pointing this out. They all use the same goofy [BLEEP] catch phrases and headlines from state to state when a country wide event occurs.

(04-08-2020, 01:28 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]The media certainly isn't doing it's part to help alleviate any fears. My problem is that every morning or mid afternoon when I receive a Jax4news notification update on my phone they only seem to care about reporting two things.

1. Number of overall cases for COVID19.
2. Number of deaths attributed to COVID19.

Where's the news stories about the rates of recovery? Or fully recovered patients? Where is the count on that in their notification updates? Funny, not too long ago, there was a local government official here that had it, and he was then cleared from it within less than a week I believe.

So. [BLEEP] doesn't always add up. And they need to be doing a better job of being honest with the people instead of playing into the fear porn. It's ridiculous. They're all working together. Even on a local news level. There's tons of video snippets on YouTube pointing this out. They all use the same goofy [BLEEP] catch phrases and headlines from state to state when a country wide event occurs.

Local news stations are controlled by the station owner and get directions from them. That is why you see very similar stuff across the country. A locally owned station has more leeway, but it's too expensive to create all their content so they do have relationships.

None of the news is free and bias free.

The one thing that doesn't pass the smell test is why we've chosen to isolate the whole population rather than just families with people over the age of 55 and high risk individuals. I don't get it. Yes, a few people would still die that way, but it wouldn't be a large number compared to the population. I am just not buying that we shut down our whole economy unless this thing could have potentially long term effects. I mean, I am really at a loss. Where are the antibody tests? This should be everyone's concern moving forward, regardless of political affiliation.

(04-08-2020, 01:28 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]The media certainly isn't doing it's part to help alleviate any fears. My problem is that every morning or mid afternoon when I receive a Jax4news notification update on my phone they only seem to care about reporting two things.

1. Number of overall cases for COVID19.
2. Number of deaths attributed to COVID19.

Where's the news stories about the rates of recovery? Or fully recovered patients? Where is the count on that in their notification updates? Funny, not too long ago, there was a local government official here that had it, and he was then cleared from it within less than a week I believe.

So. [BLEEP] doesn't always add up. And they need to be doing a better job of being honest with the people instead of playing into the fear porn. It's ridiculous. They're all working together. Even on a local news level. There's tons of video snippets on YouTube pointing this out. They all use the same goofy [BLEEP] catch phrases and headlines from state to state when a country wide event occurs.

Agree 100%.

I can say this with utmost certainty, unless the next pandemic causes people to melt into a pool of goo or explode on the spot, they’ll never be able to do this again.

(04-08-2020, 02:34 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I can say this with utmost certainty, unless the next pandemic causes people to melt into a pool of goo or explode on the spot, they’ll never be able to do this again.

We won't have a next time. I think a lot of officials are going to use this pandemic as it's ultimate battle cry and plea to permanently alter our way of life. Especially if this Microsoft weasel below keeps pushing his agenda. I used to think people were crazy when they were chasing down Ted Turner and Bill Gates at non-company based events and pestering them about global population control and vaccines. 

These rich pricks aren't just sitting around and taking it all in. They really are all out there trying to effect everything we do on a global scale. Some of the interviews and clips I have seen with some of their views and "predictions" about these pandemics happening and the need to clip the population down to a reasonable level (essentially cull the herd) such as Ted Turner's 500 million (92% reduction needed based on the global population) is fascinating and frightening all at once. 

(04-08-2020, 02:45 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-08-2020, 02:34 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I can say this with utmost certainty, unless the next pandemic causes people to melt into a pool of goo or explode on the spot, they’ll never be able to do this again.

We won't have a next time. I think a lot of officials are going to use this pandemic as it's ultimate battle cry and plea to permanently alter our way of life. Especially if this Microsoft weasel below keeps pushing his agenda. I used to think people were crazy when they were chasing down Ted Turner and Bill Gates at non-company based events and pestering them about global population control and vaccines. 

These rich pricks aren't just sitting around and taking it all in. They really are all out there trying to effect everything we do on a global scale. Some of the interviews and clips I have seen with some of their views and "predictions" about these pandemics happening and the need to clip the population down to a reasonable level (essentially cull the herd) such as Ted Turner's 500 million (92% reduction needed based on the global population) is fascinating and frightening all at once. 

They can’t alter human behavior and instinct. IF they create any noticeable difference, it will be brief. In a year this will be a distant memory except for the hardship it caused and the determination to never allow it to be repeated. If anything, this will harden people’s skepticism towards the “experts”.

(04-08-2020, 02:56 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-08-2020, 02:45 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]We won't have a next time. I think a lot of officials are going to use this pandemic as it's ultimate battle cry and plea to permanently alter our way of life. Especially if this Microsoft weasel below keeps pushing his agenda. I used to think people were crazy when they were chasing down Ted Turner and Bill Gates at non-company based events and pestering them about global population control and vaccines. 

These rich pricks aren't just sitting around and taking it all in. They really are all out there trying to effect everything we do on a global scale. Some of the interviews and clips I have seen with some of their views and "predictions" about these pandemics happening and the need to clip the population down to a reasonable level (essentially cull the herd) such as Ted Turner's 500 million (92% reduction needed based on the global population) is fascinating and frightening all at once. 

They can’t alter human behavior and instinct. IF they create any noticeable difference, it will be brief. In a year this will be a distant memory except for the hardship it caused and the determination to never allow it to be repeated. If anything, this will harden people’s skepticism towards the “experts”.

I hope so. 

(04-07-2020, 04:11 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding news I get the bulk of my news from FOX Business network which I watch/listen to during the day and during the week.  Much of it is both political and business related since both are tied to one another.  Online aside from local news I check The Drudge Report, FOX News, CNN, The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal (subscription required) every day.  I take in the information that they provide and make my own decision(s) regarding what is "real news" and what is "fake news".

I watch the press conferences to get information and to see where we are at.  Many of the "questions" from the so-called MSM are framed to be "gotcha" questions.

People really need to think about how would "President Hillary Clinton" handle something like this?  In my mind we pretty much "dodged a bullet" in the last election.  I am by no means a "trumpette", but I do think that he has done a fine job handling what has been thrown at him.

Imagine this happening next year.  Would you want Joe Biden handling this mess?  Bernie Sanders?  Elizabeth Warren?  If that was the case we would quickly turn into another Venezuela.

Our tax guy was saying he's no fan of Trump and thought he was a horrible choice for POTUS but has come to realize that, like him or not, Trump has handled the pressure and criticism of this pandemic better than any POTUS in recent history could have. Considering how many people were trying to burn him at the stake anyway then to have this happen, the tax guy said in his 70 years of life he has never seen such hate and vitriol for a human being in our country. 

I'm only 48 and I have to agree. As much as some folks absolutely hate the man you would think Trump was the DNA combination of Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer, Aileen Wournos, Son of Sam, the Zodiac Killer and David Berkowitz. I don't think any of these folks commanded quite the same.....feelings as Trump does for some. 

I think the guy is a misogynist cornhole most of the time but I have to agree with Tax Guy.

What a nasty skank.


This [BLEEP] trying anything to get out. 

(04-08-2020, 01:34 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]For a moment, I just want to revisit the idea of "downplaying" this virus.  Both sides of the aisle have put together clips of their political opponents misstating that the risk to the country was low or that this virus was akin to the seasonal flu.  They both point fingers and point out potential motivations for the other side to have mislead the public to serve their own agenda.  That's fine. That's politics, that's the game.  The only problem with that is Anthony Faucci.  

Hes the top infectious disease expert in the country.  In late january he said the risk to the country was low.  In late February he said this would be the flu.  Is Pope Faucci a political hack just trying to advance an agenda?   No.  He just hot it wrong.  That happens.  He was basing those opinions on the information he had, the experience with SARS COV1, etc.  Weve never seen a virus like th his.  Generally theres an inverse correlation between lethality and level of contagion.  By that I mean the easier it spreads the less deadly it is.  In a lot of ways this virus (subject to the antibody tests ) defies those norms.  So for me, prior to march 11th no one was DOWNPLAYING ANYTHING.  People were using the best info thet had to inform their opinions and just got it wrong.

Stop making sense! 

But for real, when they kept calling it a 'novel coronavirus' I had just finished watching Pandemic on Netflix and remembered hearing them say 'novel' so I looked it up and it means a virus that is completely unknown and has never been seen before. Sure it's the cousin of SARS but that doesn't mean much with the COVD-2 part being the unknown. 

What the heck is anyone supposed to know initially? They didn't figure out Ebola or HIV in a day, or SARS for that matter. The demand for info by the 24 hour news cycle has created more confusion than anything else because the medical folks are being forced to come up with answers, and quickly, and often they sound like they're not sure of what they're saying which causes panic.