(03-08-2020, 11:53 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a concern:
Quote:In China, labs have [font=CJ-PalatinoLT, PalatinoLT, serif]tested thousands of patients each day. By February 23, the Chinese government had approved ten test kits, and production capacity reached 1.65 million tests per week. Meantime, South Korea has more than 500 testing sites and has screened over 100,000 people, reportedly testing 10,000 individuals per day and pioneering “drive-through” testing facilities. This enhanced testing capability is a key reason why the country has reported over 5,100 cases—the second-largest, outside China—including larger numbers of patients with mild illness, as reflected in a case fatality rate less than 1 percent. As of March 3, the U.K. had tested nearly 14,000 cases.[/font]
By contrast, the U.S. had performed a paltry 472 tests by March 2. Further, [font=CJ-PalatinoLT, PalatinoLT, serif]CDC testing criteria have precluded recognizing community spread because of requirements stipulating recent travel to China or exposure to an infected person. Adherence to these guidelines delayed testing in the first probable case of community transmission, in Northern California, by four days.[/font]
The CDC can't even use common sense in a crisis. Tell me again why the Left wants the US government to take over 100% of our health care?
Full Article Link
The response has been fine. The symptoms are those of the common cold, and with it also being Spring allergy season you simply cannot test every single person with the sniffles for Coronavirus. That's why they have additional diagnostic questions about travel and exposure, because the system can't possibly do 30 million lab test this quarter (the number of acute visits due to respiratory conditions annually when there's
no Corona Scare). What has not been fine is the media-generated panic over this issue that's treating it like it's the next coming of The Plague. It's not.It's a relatively contagious but also relatively non-virulent virus that's going to have far less of an clinical impact on us than the flu season this year even while the media is pretty much insuring that it will have a terrible economic one.
Between 9 million and 40 million people in the United States get the flu each year. If the same number of people get the Covid-19 virus, or say, 10 million, and the death rate is 2%, that's 200,000 deaths. That's pretty serious when you think about it.
Worldwide, the flu kills between 250,000 and 500,000 people each year. If the death rate from Covid-19 is some multiple of that, that's a lot of people.
(03-08-2020, 12:24 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2020, 11:53 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a concern:
The CDC can't even use common sense in a crisis. Tell me again why the Left wants the US government to take over 100% of our health care?
Full Article Link
The response has been fine. The symptoms are those of the common cold, and with it also being Spring allergy season you simply cannot test every single person with the sniffles for Coronavirus. That's why they have additional diagnostic questions about travel and exposure, because the system can't possibly do 30 million lab test this quarter (the number of acute visits due to respiratory conditions annually when there's no Corona Scare). What has not been fine is the media-generated panic over this issue that's treating it like it's the next coming of The Plague. It's not.It's a relatively contagious but also relatively non-virulent virus that's going to have far less of an clinical impact on us than the flu season this year even while the media is pretty much insuring that it will have a terrible economic one.
The response has not been fine, especially in Washington State, which is basically ground zero...
WA State can still only test up to around 140-150 people a day (in the entire state) with King County and Snohomish County taking priority (most confirmed cases/deaths). At least 3-4 other County's have positive cases now and test are being back logged for days, if not weeks (people are still waiting for their results since last week). There has been a few confirmed cases within the past couple days, in the County I live in and 2 of the known results are firefighters.
This stuff is only going to continue to get worse and our Country is so [BLEEP] backwards they're going to let it get really bad. For every positive test, you can guarantee there's at least 6x++ the amount of people carrying the virus, who don't even know it. The first positive test reported in my County was a man in his 70s, who had no known interactions with somebody who was positive with the virus. So who knows who he got it from or just how many people actually have the virus. Which you can bet there's thousands, at the very least..
The USA should have seen this coming, since they've known about this virus for months, yet they didn't take any precautions. We're basically at the point of where China was around 2 months ago (and we seen what happened to them in those coming months up to this point). And lets be real here, our Government isn't smart enough, or cares enough (it's only about $$ to them/continuing to feed the machine) to put major cities into full on locked downs to prevent mass spread of the virus (at least until it's too late and they're forced to), like China did and like Italy is currently doing etc.
People really need to stop comparing this to the common flu. Countries aren't cancelling all classes, canceling travel, stopping major businesses and putting major cities into full on lock downs/quarantine because of the [BLEEP] flu...
(03-08-2020, 04:45 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2020, 12:24 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The response has been fine. The symptoms are those of the common cold, and with it also being Spring allergy season you simply cannot test every single person with the sniffles for Coronavirus. That's why they have additional diagnostic questions about travel and exposure, because the system can't possibly do 30 million lab test this quarter (the number of acute visits due to respiratory conditions annually when there's no Corona Scare). What has not been fine is the media-generated panic over this issue that's treating it like it's the next coming of The Plague. It's not.It's a relatively contagious but also relatively non-virulent virus that's going to have far less of an clinical impact on us than the flu season this year even while the media is pretty much insuring that it will have a terrible economic one.
The response has not been fine. Sure, you can't test everyone with the sniffles, but you can do a lot more testing than 472 tests in a month. Test everyone who has a fever that's not obviously explained by another illness within (say) 20 miles of the known cases. If nothing else, this will provide background knowledge of the extent of the virus.
It's not relatively non-virulent. The mortality rate is 1% in the most optimistic estimates. The flu mortality rate in a typical year is around 0.1%. The total number of deaths will be the same or more if only ten percent of the number of people who get the flu get COVID-19.
That said, I'm not taking excessive precautions. I fully expect to catch it no matter what I do, so que sera sera.
No, you don't do labs just because. Doing so overloads the labs and slows down the ID process for real cases. And 3.4% is a bull [BLEEP] number, even the WHO admits that because they have no idea how many cases are resolved without medical intervention. In other words, they only know how may die against how many they know have it. Since we haven't been testing, any number they come up with is overstated because ALL deaths caused will be known while all infections will not. The real number is going to be 0.1 to 0.3%, it'a a minor virus being blown out of proportion for the headlines.
(03-08-2020, 06:58 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2020, 12:24 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The response has been fine. The symptoms are those of the common cold, and with it also being Spring allergy season you simply cannot test every single person with the sniffles for Coronavirus. That's why they have additional diagnostic questions about travel and exposure, because the system can't possibly do 30 million lab test this quarter (the number of acute visits due to respiratory conditions annually when there's no Corona Scare). What has not been fine is the media-generated panic over this issue that's treating it like it's the next coming of The Plague. It's not.It's a relatively contagious but also relatively non-virulent virus that's going to have far less of an clinical impact on us than the flu season this year even while the media is pretty much insuring that it will have a terrible economic one.
The response has not been fine, especially in Washington State, which is basically ground zero...
WA State can still only test up to around 140-150 people a day (in the entire state) with King County and Snohomish County taking priority (most confirmed cases/deaths). At least 3-4 other County's have positive cases now and test are being back logged for days, if not weeks (people are still waiting for their results since last week). There has been a few confirmed cases within the past couple days, in the County I live in and 2 of the known results are firefighters.
This stuff is only going to continue to get worse and our Country is so [BLEEP] backwards they're going to let it get really bad. For every positive test, you can guarantee there's at least 6x++ the amount of people carrying the virus, who don't even know it. The first positive test reported in my County was a man in his 70s, who had no known interactions with somebody who was positive with the virus. So who knows who he got it from or just how many people actually have the virus. Which you can bet there's thousands, at the very least..
The USA should have seen this coming, since they've known about this virus for months, yet they didn't take any precautions. We're basically at the point of where China was around 2 months ago (and we seen what happened to them in those coming months up to this point). And lets be real here, our Government isn't smart enough, or cares enough (it's only about $$ to them/continuing to feed the machine) to put major cities into full on locked downs to prevent mass spread of the virus (at least until it's too late and they're forced to), like China did and like Italy is currently doing etc.
People really need to stop comparing this to the common flu. Countries aren't cancelling all classes, canceling travel, stopping major businesses and putting major cities into full on lock downs/quarantine because of the [BLEEP] flu...
Ya'll need to really back away from the panic button, you're going to pull a muscle. As I said above, you state exactly the reason why testing has to be reserved for suspicion not just anyone with the sniffles. 30 million people in the USA have Coronavirus symptoms at this moment that aren't caused by the Coronovirus. Panic is worse for us than the actual virus. "Full lock down" for chrissakes, you''d destroy the economy over a freaking cold.
South Korea, which has been the most vigilant country wrt testing, has the death rate at .6%, which isn't great, but it's MUCH better than the 2-15% we've been hearing. This gives me hope this is more manageable than we previously though.
(03-08-2020, 05:41 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2020, 04:48 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Coronavirus blunt truth?
https://capitalisteric.wordpress.com/202...unt-truth/
"They’re not particularly smart thinkers and inventors, as much as thieves."
Nothing like a little racism to season up an article.
Better stick to mainstream whitewashed pablum then.
The premise is that they stole our technology in order to wipe out all Americans, and you're upset that the author called them thieves?
I may not agree with all his ideas, but he is gathering information and trying to connect dots as an independent thinker.
(03-08-2020, 08:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2020, 04:45 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]The response has not been fine. Sure, you can't test everyone with the sniffles, but you can do a lot more testing than 472 tests in a month. Test everyone who has a fever that's not obviously explained by another illness within (say) 20 miles of the known cases. If nothing else, this will provide background knowledge of the extent of the virus.
It's not relatively non-virulent. The mortality rate is 1% in the most optimistic estimates. The flu mortality rate in a typical year is around 0.1%. The total number of deaths will be the same or more if only ten percent of the number of people who get the flu get COVID-19.
That said, I'm not taking excessive precautions. I fully expect to catch it no matter what I do, so que sera sera.
No, you don't do labs just because. Doing so overloads the labs and slows down the ID process for real cases. And 3.4% is a bull [BLEEP] number, even the WHO admits that because they have no idea how many cases are resolved without medical intervention. In other words, they only know how may die against how many they know have it. Since we haven't been testing, any number they come up with is overstated because ALL deaths caused will be known while all infections will not. The real number is going to be 0.1 to 0.3%, it'a a minor virus being blown out of proportion for the headlines.
(03-08-2020, 06:58 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]The response has not been fine, especially in Washington State, which is basically ground zero...
WA State can still only test up to around 140-150 people a day (in the entire state) with King County and Snohomish County taking priority (most confirmed cases/deaths). At least 3-4 other County's have positive cases now and test are being back logged for days, if not weeks (people are still waiting for their results since last week). There has been a few confirmed cases within the past couple days, in the County I live in and 2 of the known results are firefighters.
This stuff is only going to continue to get worse and our Country is so [BLEEP] backwards they're going to let it get really bad. For every positive test, you can guarantee there's at least 6x++ the amount of people carrying the virus, who don't even know it. The first positive test reported in my County was a man in his 70s, who had no known interactions with somebody who was positive with the virus. So who knows who he got it from or just how many people actually have the virus. Which you can bet there's thousands, at the very least..
The USA should have seen this coming, since they've known about this virus for months, yet they didn't take any precautions. We're basically at the point of where China was around 2 months ago (and we seen what happened to them in those coming months up to this point). And lets be real here, our Government isn't smart enough, or cares enough (it's only about $$ to them/continuing to feed the machine) to put major cities into full on locked downs to prevent mass spread of the virus (at least until it's too late and they're forced to), like China did and like Italy is currently doing etc.
People really need to stop comparing this to the common flu. Countries aren't cancelling all classes, canceling travel, stopping major businesses and putting major cities into full on lock downs/quarantine because of the [BLEEP] flu...
Ya'll need to really back away from the panic button, you're going to pull a muscle. As I said above, you state exactly the reason why testing has to be reserved for suspicion not just anyone with the sniffles. 30 million people in the USA have Coronavirus symptoms at this moment that aren't caused by the Coronovirus. Panic is worse for us than the actual virus. "Full lock down" for chrissakes, you''d destroy the economy over a freaking cold.
I'm not saying put the country in full lock down right now, but a mild city quarantine for major cities, like Seattle for instance, since it's basically ground zero in the US, should be considered highly.
Nobody should be in full panic mode yet, but being down right naive and writing this off as just some freaking cold is just as bad as going full panic mode. Nobody knows the long term effects of this virus, even if it doesn't kill you. Nobody really knows much about it at all, besides it's pretty nasty.
Only time will tell, but hopefully we aren't looking back at this in 2 months saying something along the lines of, "oh [BLEEP], we clearly seen this outbreak/pandemic coming from miles away and were too naive to do anything about it before it got way out of hand".
(03-08-2020, 09:00 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2020, 08:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]No, you don't do labs just because. Doing so overloads the labs and slows down the ID process for real cases. And 3.4% is a bull [BLEEP] number, even the WHO admits that because they have no idea how many cases are resolved without medical intervention. In other words, they only know how may die against how many they know have it. Since we haven't been testing, any number they come up with is overstated because ALL deaths caused will be known while all infections will not. The real number is going to be 0.1 to 0.3%, it'a a minor virus being blown out of proportion for the headlines.
Ya'll need to really back away from the panic button, you're going to pull a muscle. As I said above, you state exactly the reason why testing has to be reserved for suspicion not just anyone with the sniffles. 30 million people in the USA have Coronavirus symptoms at this moment that aren't caused by the Coronovirus. Panic is worse for us than the actual virus. "Full lock down" for chrissakes, you''d destroy the economy over a freaking cold.
I'm not saying put the country in full lock down right now, but a mild city quarantine for major cities, like Seattle for instance, since it's basically ground zero in the US, should be considered highly.
Nobody should be in full panic mode yet, but being down right naive and writing this off as just some freaking cold is just as bad as going full panic mode. Nobody knows the long term effects of this virus, even if it doesn't kill you. Nobody really knows much about it at all, besides it's pretty nasty.
Only time will tell, but hopefully we aren't looking back at this in 2 months saying something along the lines of, "oh [BLEEP], we clearly seen this outbreak/pandemic coming from miles away and were too naive to do anything about it before it got way out of hand".
Absolutely not. We don't quarantine cities for the flu and this is not different no matter how hard the papers push for it to be. You're responding out of fear and emotion, not logic and science. That leads to panic which has the power to destroy our society if not checked. We DO know the long term effects of this virus, it's a form of the common Coronavirus that's always around. You treat it like the flu, including the same personal precautions and safety measures. You do not stop the whole world for something that more than 99% of those who catch it are going to survive. You don't trust the government based on how you perceive they've mismanaged the outbreak thus far, I get that. I don't trust the government because they're acting on half-knowledge and hysteria and I certainly don't support those who are acting like this is the damn Apocalypse. It's not.
I say panic early and avoid the rush.
Get ready for a rocky week in the markets. THEY ARE CRASHING HARD.
Oil down 31% in a day. S&P at limit down (-5%, further selling is frozen) and the VIX (fear/uncertainty) is exploding.
(03-08-2020, 11:53 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a concern:
Quote:In China, labs have [font=CJ-PalatinoLT, PalatinoLT, serif]tested thousands of patients each day. By February 23, the Chinese government had approved ten test kits, and production capacity reached 1.65 million tests per week. Meantime, South Korea has more than 500 testing sites and has screened over 100,000 people, reportedly testing 10,000 individuals per day and pioneering “drive-through” testing facilities. This enhanced testing capability is a key reason why the country has reported over 5,100 cases—the second-largest, outside China—including larger numbers of patients with mild illness, as reflected in a case fatality rate less than 1 percent. As of March 3, the U.K. had tested nearly 14,000 cases.[/font]
By contrast, the U.S. had performed a paltry 472 tests by March 2. Further, [font=CJ-PalatinoLT, PalatinoLT, serif]CDC testing criteria have precluded recognizing community spread because of requirements stipulating recent travel to China or exposure to an infected person. Adherence to these guidelines delayed testing in the first probable case of community transmission, in Northern California, by four days.[/font]
The CDC can't even use common sense in a crisis. Tell me again why the Left wants the US government to take over 100% of our health care?
Full Article Link
Why are China, South Korea, and the UK able to administer thousands of tests while we are only able to administer hundreds?
It's not like a government can't administer hundreds of thousands and millions of these tests.
*Ours* can't. Why?
(03-08-2020, 10:04 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2020, 09:00 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying put the country in full lock down right now, but a mild city quarantine for major cities, like Seattle for instance, since it's basically ground zero in the US, should be considered highly.
Nobody should be in full panic mode yet, but being down right naive and writing this off as just some freaking cold is just as bad as going full panic mode. Nobody knows the long term effects of this virus, even if it doesn't kill you. Nobody really knows much about it at all, besides it's pretty nasty.
Only time will tell, but hopefully we aren't looking back at this in 2 months saying something along the lines of, "oh [BLEEP], we clearly seen this outbreak/pandemic coming from miles away and were too naive to do anything about it before it got way out of hand".
Absolutely not. We don't quarantine cities for the flu and this is not different no matter how hard the papers push for it to be. You're responding out of fear and emotion, not logic and science. That leads to panic which has the power to destroy our society if not checked. We DO know the long term effects of this virus, it's a form of the common Coronavirus that's always around. You treat it like the flu, including the same personal precautions and safety measures. You do not stop the whole world for something that more than 99% of those who catch it are going to survive. You don't trust the government based on how you perceive they've mismanaged the outbreak thus far, I get that. I don't trust the government because they're acting on half-knowledge and hysteria and I certainly don't support those who are acting like this is the damn Apocalypse. It's not.
Italy have locked down 2 cities today. Milan is one of them! All sporting events with no fans until 3rd of April, they are now talking about suspending all sport events for the month.
In the UK it is only a matter of time before they lock down cities. Theyve already floated shutting down public transport and tomorrow they are discussing no fans for sporting events.
I agree with your point, panic is a problem but we keep getting told its nothing and like eric1 says, they then take actions like this which is not normal.
Slashing public services maybe not a great idea.
Quest Labs and LabCorp should have tests available starting today.
(03-08-2020, 10:50 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2020, 08:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]No, you don't do labs just because. Doing so overloads the labs and slows down the ID process for real cases. And 3.4% is a bull [BLEEP] number, even the WHO admits that because they have no idea how many cases are resolved without medical intervention. In other words, they only know how may die against how many they know have it. Since we haven't been testing, any number they come up with is overstated because ALL deaths caused will be known while all infections will not. The real number is going to be 0.1 to 0.3%, it'a a minor virus being blown out of proportion for the headlines.
Well I've heard 500 cases in the USA, with 21 deaths. That's 4.2% and in a country with full rescue facilities. These people died in spite of heroic attempt to keep them alive.
I can see that many milder cases may not be reported, so that percentage could come down, but we don't know. I've also read that somewhere (Korea I think) they went back and tested people who had mild symptoms that might have been COVID-19, and there were very few positives. So maybe there aren't a lot of unrecorded cases. Like I said, we don't know. It seems that half the articles claim it's no big deal and the other half say it might be. I guess we'll find out one way or another. The death rate in Korea, where they test a lot and it's unlikely to be a [BLEEP] number gives a death rate of around 1%. That's bad. Not Captain Trips bad, but Spanish flu bad.
And no matter how limited the testing facilities are, I'm absolutely sure that 472 is way too small a number allowed to be tested considering the diverse locations of the known cases.
And yeah, I see the discrepancy in 500 vs. 472. Maybe the difference is that some of the 500 were tested elsewhere and brought here under quarantine. Or maybe the 500 was from rounding up. Maybe the article I posted was wrong and 472 is the number of positive tests, with lots more negative tests.
Your guess is as good as mine. I hope you are right.
I'm not saying that it's not a big deal, but the mortality rate in South Korea as of this morning was down to 0.6% and the expect it to continue to decline. Initial reports of high numbers are driving a panic and that is irresponsible journalism. What I am saying is that we are going to do something far worse by destroying our economy over it due to panic than it will actually do to us clinically. Everyone should be following basic precautions at this point, ie wash your hands frequently especially after you sneeze or cough, use hand sanitizer if you have to touch things in public places (e.g. use the wipe on your grocery cart) and use Lysol and stay home if you feel unwell. Don't empty your bank account or go punch some old woman to get the last rolls of toilet paper at Costco. If we all work together then we'll keep community transmission down and everything will be ok. As Byron said, the commercial labs will have tests available soon and everything won't have to be run through the Health Department, that will make testing easier and quicker so we can get actual cases into quarantine and get them care. The greatest dangers in this whole thing are fear and misinformation, and those two things are how the media makes its living.