Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(08-22-2021, 04:47 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Yay?

Just keeping an eye on the looming dance between DeSantis and the feds as counties defy DeSantis and he [BLEEP] with their funding. 

It could get weird.

(08-22-2021, 05:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2021, 04:47 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Yay?

Just keeping an eye on the looming dance between DeSantis and the feds as counties defy DeSantis and he [BLEEP] with their funding. 

It could get weird.

It makes for good television. LOL.

Theater is all the media cares about. Wish you guys would stop watching that tripe.

---

Back to news.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...ta-variant

---

"The Delta variant was first identified in the United States in April and by May it was well onto its exponential growth curve, doubling every 10-12 days, as the basis for Covid infections, now reaching over 96% prevalence. Ironically, on 1 May, the CDC announced it would stop monitoring post-vaccination breakthrough infections unless they led to hospitalizations or deaths. This decision can be seen as exceptionally ill-advised and has led to a country flying blind in its attempt to confront its fourth wave of infections – one that has rapidly led to well over 100,000 new cases per day and more than 60,000 hospitalizations, both higher than the US first and second pandemic waves. It is unfathomable that we do not know how many of these are occurring in people who were vaccinated.

Most people who get Covid infections after being fully vaccinated have mild to moderate symptoms, and generally have been thought to avoid hospitalizations. But that sense of confidence about vaccine protection was built upon the pre-Delta data when the CDC was monitoring breakthroughs. Still being reported by CDC, from their latest website data, and a constant refrain from public health officials, is that “99.99% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 have not had a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death.” That could not be further from the truth. In the July Provincetown Delta outbreaks that the CDC reported on the risk of fully vaccinated requiring hospitalization was 1%, not .01%, and that may not be a reliable estimate for the incidence of such infections occurring throughout the country.

Without tracking, we have no idea of the proportion of people fully vaccinated who are getting ill, hospitalized, or dying. There is no question the frequency of requiring hospitalization is increasing, as reflected by data from some counties that are tracking breakthroughs on their own and reporting that 10 to 20% of admissions are in vaccinated individuals. But we have no denominator.

Why is this so critically important? For one, the false sense of security transmitted by CDC’s lack of data in the Delta wave likely fosters complacency and lack of protective measures such as masks and distancing. The mission of the CDC to prevent such illness, and the first step is to collect the relevant data. It would be very simple to know the vaccination status of every American with a breakthrough infection admitted to the hospital with Covid-19, along with key demographics such as age, time from vaccination, which vaccine, and co-existing medical conditions. The PCR diagnostic test for each patient has an accompanying cycle threshold (Ct) value, which is an indicator of viral load, and would be important to track. Moreover, the sample of the virus could undergo genomic sequencing to determine whether there has been further evolution of the virus and blood samples for neutralizing antibody levels that could be obtained in as many patients as possible. Contact tracing of these individuals would help determine the true rate of transmission from other vaccines, something that is pure conjecture. Such systematic collection of data would be the foundation for understanding who is at risk for breakthrough infections, determining the current level of effectiveness of vaccines and whether, when, and in whom, booster shots should be recommended. It is remarkable that none of this is getting done for hospitalized patients, who represent an undetermined fraction of the people who are getting quite ill, some requiring monoclonal antibody infusions to pre-empt getting admitted.

This is not by any means the first breakdown of the CDC in managing and communicating about the pandemic. But with billions of dollars allocated to CDC earlier this year for improved Covid-19 surveillance, this represents a blatant failure that is putting millions of vaccinated Americans at unnecessary risk for breakthrough infections and leaving us without a navigational system for the US Delta wave."

(08-22-2021, 06:20 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2021, 05:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Just keeping an eye on the looming dance between DeSantis and the feds as counties defy DeSantis and he [BLEEP] with their funding. 

It could get weird.

It makes for good television. LOL.

I was thinking more along the lines of federal dollars earmarked for schools in our state being illegally withheld by an [BLEEP] governor on a petty power trip about masks that millions of FL parents want their children to wear at school. 

Maybe that’s funny to you. I think it’s a shame that the quality of our schools, the meager wage of our teachers, and the safety of FL children are all being pissed upon by our governor pointlessly.

Parents kids can wear a mask if they want, dude. DeSantis has done a pretty good job of following the science. There are multiple studies now that show the inefficiency of cloth masks and plexiglass for children. Additionally, there are new studies that emphasize the necessity of facial recognition in child development. You completely ignore that because you blindly follow a political narrative. If the school district wants to mandate it for the adults, go ahead. If parents want to make their kids wear a mask, go ahead. He is simply saying you can't make kids wear something when the data doesn't support it.

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Especially when you consider that this disease doesn't really affect kids. I know, I know... what about their grandma. She can get vaccinated.

(08-22-2021, 03:35 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2021, 09:17 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The math+ protocol is for inpatients only, and then only after the patient requires oxygenation, according to the docs at FLCCC who are hyping it. I-MASK+ is designed for early stage prophylaxis in the outpatient setting. Neither is intended to "reverse vaccine damage" though, so if you have a study you can share that would be nice.

And any physician who is "forced" by a patient to prescribe them a treatment regimen should lose his license. That's not how medicine works.

---

No, you are the one who deemed it "likely", not me. I see they are about 10 days ahead of the time table we were given in April when they first started saying when it would gain full approval, you see it as conspiracy that they are ahead of schedule.

Doctors have to follow your treatment wishes, even if you want no treatment. There is also treatment that has no harm and is better than doing nothing or just waiting until you get worse and need a ventilator. These are established protocols with 0 risks for most patients. Ivermectin has 1 death in world wide usage for decades. Vitamins are the same. Everyone should immediately be given it since it costs next to nothing and will only do you good.


The one I'm remembering has NAC and zinc which helps to destroy the spike proteins that are left behind. Can't remember the name now but there are nih data backing it up. I'll try to find it later.

NAC is harder to find now though as the FDA is trying to remove from the market since it works and is otc.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

You should read a few books on medical practice and medical ethics. Physicians are under zero obligation to provide a treatment just because a patient wants it. In fact, quite the opposite, they can lose their license for giving drugs without a legitimate reason and "a patient wanted it" is rarely legitimate. Ivermectin continues to be the fad of 2021 having replaced HCQ as the de facto treatment of no value for Covid. And yes, giving a treatment known to not work just because "it's better than doing nothing" is unethical. Vitamin regimens are no different, there is zero evidence that they do any good as anti-virals.

Vitamins significantly reduce the severity and chance of infection by boosting the immune system. You know that's true. This would be terrible against a virus that uses a robust immune system to infect individuals, but works pretty good against Covid. This should have been message number 1 from the beginning. Obviously they aren't going to treat Covid when it's running rampant in your system, but it is something that people should know about. Youtube was censoring videos by actual doctors for mentioning Vitamin D. That's irresponsible. Doctors should be advocating for a solid vitamin regimen, exercise, and sleep. In general, probably a pretty good message for Americans.

(08-22-2021, 09:26 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Theater is all the media cares about. Wish you guys would stop watching that tripe.

---

Back to news.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...ta-variant

---

"The Delta variant was first identified in the United States in April and by May it was well onto its exponential growth curve, doubling every 10-12 days, as the basis for Covid infections, now reaching over 96% prevalence. Ironically, on 1 May, the CDC announced it would stop monitoring post-vaccination breakthrough infections unless they led to hospitalizations or deaths. This decision can be seen as exceptionally ill-advised and has led to a country flying blind in its attempt to confront its fourth wave of infections – one that has rapidly led to well over 100,000 new cases per day and more than 60,000 hospitalizations, both higher than the US first and second pandemic waves. It is unfathomable that we do not know how many of these are occurring in people who were vaccinated.

Most people who get Covid infections after being fully vaccinated have mild to moderate symptoms, and generally have been thought to avoid hospitalizations. But that sense of confidence about vaccine protection was built upon the pre-Delta data when the CDC was monitoring breakthroughs. Still being reported by CDC, from their latest website data, and a constant refrain from public health officials, is that “99.99% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 have not had a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death.” That could not be further from the truth. In the July Provincetown Delta outbreaks that the CDC reported on the risk of fully vaccinated requiring hospitalization was 1%, not .01%, and that may not be a reliable estimate for the incidence of such infections occurring throughout the country.

Without tracking, we have no idea of the proportion of people fully vaccinated who are getting ill, hospitalized, or dying. There is no question the frequency of requiring hospitalization is increasing, as reflected by data from some counties that are tracking breakthroughs on their own and reporting that 10 to 20% of admissions are in vaccinated individuals. But we have no denominator.

Why is this so critically important? For one, the false sense of security transmitted by CDC’s lack of data in the Delta wave likely fosters complacency and lack of protective measures such as masks and distancing. The mission of the CDC to prevent such illness, and the first step is to collect the relevant data. It would be very simple to know the vaccination status of every American with a breakthrough infection admitted to the hospital with Covid-19, along with key demographics such as age, time from vaccination, which vaccine, and co-existing medical conditions. The PCR diagnostic test for each patient has an accompanying cycle threshold (Ct) value, which is an indicator of viral load, and would be important to track. Moreover, the sample of the virus could undergo genomic sequencing to determine whether there has been further evolution of the virus and blood samples for neutralizing antibody levels that could be obtained in as many patients as possible. Contact tracing of these individuals would help determine the true rate of transmission from other vaccines, something that is pure conjecture. Such systematic collection of data would be the foundation for understanding who is at risk for breakthrough infections, determining the current level of effectiveness of vaccines and whether, when, and in whom, booster shots should be recommended. It is remarkable that none of this is getting done for hospitalized patients, who represent an undetermined fraction of the people who are getting quite ill, some requiring monoclonal antibody infusions to pre-empt getting admitted.

This is not by any means the first breakdown of the CDC in managing and communicating about the pandemic. But with billions of dollars allocated to CDC earlier this year for improved Covid-19 surveillance, this represents a blatant failure that is putting millions of vaccinated Americans at unnecessary risk for breakthrough infections and leaving us without a navigational system for the US Delta wave."

He's absolutely right, the tracking of this outbreak outside of individual hospitals hasn't been very good. At present the number in my health system is 4/100 admissions is a fully vaccinated patient.

---

(08-22-2021, 10:36 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Vitamins significantly reduce the severity and chance of infection by boosting the immune system. You know that's true. This would be terrible against a virus that uses a robust immune system to infect individuals, but works pretty good against Covid. This should have been message number 1 from the beginning. Obviously they aren't going to treat Covid when it's running rampant in your system, but it is something that people should know about. Youtube was censoring videos by actual doctors for mentioning Vitamin D. That's irresponsible. Doctors should be advocating for a solid vitamin regimen, exercise, and sleep. In general, probably a pretty good message for Americans.

No, the studies done repeatedly showed no difference in outcome for those blasted with high doses of vitamins versus those who were not.

You're talking about as a treatment. That is not true for prophylaxis.

https://www.bumc.bu.edu/busm/2020/09/25/...-patients/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33260798/

I could post studies all day. High levels of vitamin D reduce the risk of catching Covid and the severity when you do catch it. Once a patient has it, it's unclear whether or not boosting levels of vitamin D can do anything to help.

(08-23-2021, 08:13 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You're talking about as a treatment. That is not true for prophylaxis.

https://www.bumc.bu.edu/busm/2020/09/25/...-patients/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33260798/

I could post studies all day. High levels of vitamin D reduce the risk of catching Covid and the severity when you do catch it. Once a patient has it, it's unclear whether or not boosting levels of vitamin D can do anything to help.

It is true for prophylaxis as well as of April 2021 which supersedes your referenced studies. They haven't been able to prove what those studies suggested, and honestly, proving prophylaxis is difficult to do. I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying it hasn't been proven to work and folks pointing to it as the magic bullet are selling you something. Same with HCQ and Ivermectin, none are the one size fits all treatment for this thing and too many people are caught up in the conspiracy that it's just being hidden from everyone.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.n...vitamin-d/

Vitamin D

• There is insufficient evidence to recommend either for or against the use of vitamin D for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19.
  

(08-22-2021, 09:54 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Parents kids can wear a mask if they want, dude. DeSantis has done a pretty good job of following the science. There are multiple studies now that show the inefficiency of cloth masks and plexiglass for children. Additionally, there are new studies that emphasize the necessity of facial recognition in child development. You completely ignore that because you blindly follow a political narrative. If the school district wants to mandate it for the adults, go ahead. If parents want to make their kids wear a mask, go ahead. He is simply saying  you can't make kids wear something when the data doesn't support it.

---

Especially when you consider that this disease doesn't really affect kids. I know, I know... what about their grandma. She can get vaccinated.

This is how a feel. If you want your kid to wear a mask, make them wear a mask, but don't tell me kid to put one on. My kids will wear a mask if they want to. I give them that choice.

(08-23-2021, 08:43 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-23-2021, 08:13 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You're talking about as a treatment. That is not true for prophylaxis.

https://www.bumc.bu.edu/busm/2020/09/25/...-patients/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33260798/

I could post studies all day. High levels of vitamin D reduce the risk of catching Covid and the severity when you do catch it. Once a patient has it, it's unclear whether or not boosting levels of vitamin D can do anything to help.

It is true for prophylaxis as well as of April 2021 which supersedes your referenced studies. They haven't been able to prove what those studies suggested, and honestly, proving prophylaxis is difficult to do. I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying it hasn't been proven to work and folks pointing to it as the magic bullet are selling you something. Same with HCQ and Ivermectin, none are the one size fits all treatment for this thing and too many people are caught up in the conspiracy that it's just being hidden from everyone.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.n...vitamin-d/

Vitamin D

Last Updated: April 21, 2021

Recommendation

• There is insufficient evidence to recommend either for or against the use of vitamin D for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19.
  

Again, this isn't saying anything we don't already know. TBH, I don't really care what the NIH is saying about this because I feel like they are fixated on the antibody response. I understand their position that correlation does not equal causation, and that this disease does affect groups with low vitamin d. However,  Vitamin d boosts the immune system via t cells, which I believe, based on strong evidence, is the body's first line of defense against covid. The data supports my position, and I have been winning the antibody arguments based on this data.  

It's funny you say they are selling me something when it's the vaccine that is making people money.  Again... not anti vax, but I think we need to at least use Israel's standard: strongly suggest for at risk groups, recommend for everyone else over 18, not recommended for convalescent patients or kids under 18.

(08-22-2021, 09:54 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Parents kids can wear a mask if they want, dude. DeSantis has done a pretty good job of following the science. There are multiple studies now that show the inefficiency of cloth masks and plexiglass for children. Additionally, there are new studies that emphasize the necessity of facial recognition in child development. You completely ignore that because you blindly follow a political narrative. If the school district wants to mandate it for the adults, go ahead. If parents want to make their kids wear a mask, go ahead. He is simply saying  you can't make kids wear something when the data doesn't support it.

---

Especially when you consider that this disease doesn't really affect kids. I know, I know... what about their grandma. She can get vaccinated.

Hep-derp diarrhea as usual. 
There are studies refuting your study as well as clear guidelines from NIH and CDC that you've dismissed due to your own bias. 
 Also, congratulations on missing the broader point. 

And please stop telling me what I'm ignoring. It's a tired deflection you weakly overuse.  You're a fool to presume what I've read, discerned and considered carefully. Don't pretend to know.

You both sound like idiots.

There's my 2 cents on the matter.

You're both long winded, self centered and arrogant.. Go get a room..

Considering getting the Pfizer vaccine now that it's FDA approved..

Still on the fence though..

(08-23-2021, 11:48 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Considering getting the Pfizer vaccine now that it's FDA approved..

Still on the fence though..

Be careful!

Paper clips will stick to the vax site and the microchips will track your every move! Not to mention, we will need you to repopulate the earth once all of us who have taken the vaccine have died.

(08-23-2021, 11:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-23-2021, 11:48 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Considering getting the Pfizer vaccine now that it's FDA approved..

Still on the fence though..

Be careful!

Paper clips will stick to the vax site and the microchips will track your every move! Not to mention, we will need you to repopulate the earth once all of us who have taken the vaccine have died.

Well vaccines are a new thing for me in my adult life. Yeah, I had vaccines as a kid for school, but I declined them in my adult life. I don't even think I've ever received a flu shot either.

(08-23-2021, 08:43 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-23-2021, 08:13 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You're talking about as a treatment. That is not true for prophylaxis.

https://www.bumc.bu.edu/busm/2020/09/25/...-patients/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33260798/

I could post studies all day. High levels of vitamin D reduce the risk of catching Covid and the severity when you do catch it. Once a patient has it, it's unclear whether or not boosting levels of vitamin D can do anything to help.

It is true for prophylaxis as well as of April 2021 which supersedes your referenced studies. They haven't been able to prove what those studies suggested, and honestly, proving prophylaxis is difficult to do. I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying it hasn't been proven to work and folks pointing to it as the magic bullet are selling you something. Same with HCQ and Ivermectin, none are the one size fits all treatment for this thing and too many people are caught up in the conspiracy that it's just being hidden from everyone.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.n...vitamin-d/

Vitamin D

Last Updated: April 21, 2021

Recommendation

• There is insufficient evidence to recommend either for or against the use of vitamin D for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19.
  

(08-23-2021, 10:50 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-23-2021, 08:43 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It is true for prophylaxis as well as of April 2021 which supersedes your referenced studies. They haven't been able to prove what those studies suggested, and honestly, proving prophylaxis is difficult to do. I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying it hasn't been proven to work and folks pointing to it as the magic bullet are selling you something. Same with HCQ and Ivermectin, none are the one size fits all treatment for this thing and too many people are caught up in the conspiracy that it's just being hidden from everyone.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.n...vitamin-d/

Vitamin D

Last Updated: April 21, 2021

Recommendation

• There is insufficient evidence to recommend either for or against the use of vitamin D for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19.
  

Again, this isn't saying anything we don't already know. TBH, I don't really care what the NIH is saying about this because I feel like they are fixated on the antibody response. I understand their position that correlation does not equal causation, and that this disease does affect groups with low vitamin d. However,  Vitamin d boosts the immune system via t cells, which I believe, based on strong evidence, is the body's first line of defense against covid. The data supports my position, and I have been winning the antibody arguments based on this data.  

It's funny you say they are selling me something when it's the vaccine that is making people money.  Again... not anti vax, but I think we need to at least use Israel's standard: strongly suggest for at risk groups, recommend for everyone else over 18, not recommended for convalescent patients or kids under 18.

The problem is will all the studies. In order to test this or the vaccine, they actually have to expose people to covid. Nobody has done a study like that. There was no double blind study, giving everyone covid, and then seeing how they responded. You don't know if people just didn't get exposed to covid or if the treatment (vaccine, protocol, etc) worked to stop it. The whole checking to see which group got covid and then using that to generate the efficacy is not a real test.

So all the studies are flawed. The main issue is the approved protocols don't do much in the initial phases to stop it from getting worse. The prophylaxis and treatment with ivermectin and hcq aren't magic bullets but people who have had the treatments before they get to a ventilator have not had bad cases.

(08-23-2021, 11:55 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-23-2021, 08:43 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It is true for prophylaxis as well as of April 2021 which supersedes your referenced studies. They haven't been able to prove what those studies suggested, and honestly, proving prophylaxis is difficult to do. I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying it hasn't been proven to work and folks pointing to it as the magic bullet are selling you something. Same with HCQ and Ivermectin, none are the one size fits all treatment for this thing and too many people are caught up in the conspiracy that it's just being hidden from everyone.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.n...vitamin-d/

Vitamin D

Last Updated: April 21, 2021

Recommendation

• There is insufficient evidence to recommend either for or against the use of vitamin D for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19.
  

(08-23-2021, 10:50 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Again, this isn't saying anything we don't already know. TBH, I don't really care what the NIH is saying about this because I feel like they are fixated on the antibody response. I understand their position that correlation does not equal causation, and that this disease does affect groups with low vitamin d. However,  Vitamin d boosts the immune system via t cells, which I believe, based on strong evidence, is the body's first line of defense against covid. The data supports my position, and I have been winning the antibody arguments based on this data.  

It's funny you say they are selling me something when it's the vaccine that is making people money.  Again... not anti vax, but I think we need to at least use Israel's standard: strongly suggest for at risk groups, recommend for everyone else over 18, not recommended for convalescent patients or kids under 18.

The problem is will all the studies. In order to test this or the vaccine, they actually have to expose people to covid. Nobody has done a study like that. There was no double blind study, giving everyone covid, and then seeing how they responded. You don't know if people just didn't get exposed to covid or if the treatment (vaccine, protocol, etc) worked to stop it. The whole checking to see which group got covid and then using that to generate the efficacy is not a real test.

So all the studies are flawed. The main issue is the approved protocols don't do much in the initial phases to stop it from getting worse. The prophylaxis and treatment with ivermectin and hcq aren't magic bullets but people who have had the treatments before they get to a ventilator have not had bad cases shown any difference from those who did not.

FTFY. And as I said above, prophylaxis is difficult to prove, however, the number of armchair biologists that this pandemic created has to be some kind of record.

Another instance of someone ill or dying with the virus expressing regret for not getting vaccinated and urging others to get it. 

Besides, the third arm I've grown since getting mine has come in very handy (ooh, pun).

Conservative talk show host Phil Valentine dies after COVID-19 battle | WKRN News 2