(03-10-2020, 09:17 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2020, 09:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Coronavirus is not the flu, it's a viral pneumonia. It is not anywhere near as contagious as the flu, though the symptoms cause the same cold-like symptoms of the flue and the respiratory distress associated with pneumonia. I'm going to Disney this weekend, hopefully the crowds will be minimal since everyone is terrified of their own shadow right now.
Just cough or wipe your nose and youll get the whole ride to yourself!! 
You'll know when it is a panic when people start attacking people for coughing.
(03-10-2020, 07:15 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2020, 06:50 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Lack of actual productivity has been documented in socialized medical systems for years, specifically reduction in beds filled.
The va RANKS as the most popular in this country, doesnt make it the best.
Do you have any links to studies comparing Italy to the rest of the developed nations
Also I think people need to do some more study on this particular virus.
Scientists are discovering that people who have the virus and don't show symptoms can still have a higher level of the virus in their system thousands of times above what SARs had. This is not a flu guys
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lastamp...69346/amp/
The state is not more efficient than the market.
(03-10-2020, 10:32 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2020, 07:15 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have any links to studies comparing Italy to the rest of the developed nations
Also I think people need to do some more study on this particular virus.
Scientists are discovering that people who have the virus and don't show symptoms can still have a higher level of the virus in their system thousands of times above what SARs had. This is not a flu guys
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lastamp...69346/amp/
The state is not more efficient than the market.
But hey, everyone gets seen eventually, even if it's by the coroner.
(03-10-2020, 03:06 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2020, 02:41 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]They should have named it Kung Flu.
Whatever they call it, it's ours now.
Too Wong Flu?
Wu Tang Flu?
2 Live Flu?
Hong Kong Fluey?
State is more efficient than a market where participants have no realistic choice but to be in the market.
But hey American healthcare is the best if you are a multi millionaire or richer. So good for them.
(03-11-2020, 01:05 AM)lastonealive Wrote: [ -> ]State is more efficient than a market where participants have no realistic choice but to be in the market.
But hey American healthcare is the best if you are a multi millionaire or richer. So good for them.
U could just say thank u, seeing as we have to subsidize r&d for the rest of the world and all.
(03-10-2020, 09:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2020, 08:43 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]Idk what to make of this, I agree with most that say nothing to worry about, normal flu, etc. I really do. But my brother called me the other night and I nonchalantly say “what do you think about this coronavirus”? To be met with, “I can’t talk about that.” Here I thought he did nuclear stuff. He admitted that some of the stuff he couldn’t talk about was stupid and that everyone knew all about it. But did say canceling out trip was what he’d do. So idk. Still leaning towards not a big deal. But I’ll be damned if the one year I get a flu shot, I get sick with this stuff.
Coronavirus is not the flu, it's a viral pneumonia. It is not anywhere near as contagious as the flu, though the symptoms cause the same cold-like symptoms of the flu and the respiratory distress associated with pneumonia. I'm going to Disney this weekend, hopefully the crowds will be minimal since everyone is terrified of their own shadow right now.
We had 6 days on resort, 4 park days and misc. dinners scheduled. We got all our money back except 300.00. It wasn’t exactly a cheap vacation. So I am really not too upset saving about staying home and saving the money. Kind of a win-win IMO.
Angela Merkel just warned that 40 million german citizens could be infected. Series A is basically suspending soccer matches. English premier league just cancelled a match....
Tif this is just a cold...
In 1939, France had the man power, equipment and material to ward off the german army. It should have been at least a stalemate until the Brits came into the war if not a prolonged French victory. Instead Germany conquered France in 3 WEEKS. What happened? The downside of consensual societies is that over time they evolve into therapeutic societies and people become more addicted to comfort than the prospect of confrontation.
Fast forward 80 years and the western world is better suited than any civilization in history to deal with a viral pneumonia. Our technological and pharmaceutical capabilities are more dynamic than anything that could have been envisioned a century ago. In a sane world young people would be volunteering to work double shifts to replace the economic output of the older at risk citizens and using extra money to invest in an equity market being sold @ a discount. Instead were all too eager to shut down the world economy and curl up with a bottle of purell.
(03-11-2020, 12:00 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]In 1939, France had the man power, equipment and material to ward off the german army. It should have been at least a stalemate until the Brits came into the war if not a prolonged French victory. Instead Germany conquered France in 3 WEEKS. What happened? The downside of consensual societies is that over time they evolve into therapeutic societies and people become more addicted to comfort than the prospect of confrontation.
Fast forward 80 years and the western world is better suited than any civilization in history to deal with a viral pneumonia. Our technological and pharmaceutical capabilities are more dynamic than anything that could have been envisioned a century ago. In a sane world young people would be volunteering to work double shifts to replace the economic output of the older at risk citizens and using extra money to invest in an equity market being sold @ a discount. Instead were all too eager to shut down the world economy and curl up with a bottle of purell.
Lol. French civilians may have had more political freedom than German civilians in 1939, but the French army drafted more men and had more of a top-down authoritarian structure than the German army did at the time. The extent to which French society was "consensual" had nothing to do with it.
Mostly it came down to initiative and guts. The French and the British knew that they had more men than the Germans, and that a higher proportion of their men had motor vehicles. They didn't imagine that the Germans would ever let their tanks roll out so quickly and so far out in front of the hoofed support. But if the French had attempted a similar attack on Germany, it probably would have worked.
(03-11-2020, 11:34 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Angela Merkel just warned that 40 million german citizens could be infected. Series A is basically suspending soccer matches. English premier league just cancelled a match....
Tif this is just a cold...
No, it's not.
In a worst case scenario, I wonder at what point we would decide the effort to contain it has failed, and further efforts will do more harm than good.
For example, if the dockworkers start getting it, or workers on container ships start getting it, will we have a really bad, hard decision to make- cause a depression by doing something like shutting down our ports, or give up the effort to contain it and let a couple of hundred thousand Americans die. This is why it is so important to go all out to contain this thing right now. We will have some economic damage from the effort to contain it, but the economic damage could get far worse if it gets loose.
Or, we might say, screw it, we don't want to have a depression, so sorry, a couple of hundred thousand mostly old folks are going to die.
(03-11-2020, 11:34 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Angela Merkel just warned that 40 million german citizens could be infected. Series A is basically suspending soccer matches. English premier league just cancelled a match....
Tif this is just a cold...
40 million people x 1% death rate = 400,000 deaths.
(03-11-2020, 02:09 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]In a worst case scenario, I wonder at what point we would decide the effort to contain it has failed, and further efforts will do more harm than good.
For example, if the dockworkers start getting it, or workers on container ships start getting it, will we have a really bad, hard decision to make- cause a depression by doing something like shutting down our ports, or give up the effort to contain it and let a couple of hundred thousand Americans die. This is why it is so important to go all out to contain this thing right now. We will have some economic damage from the effort to contain it, but the economic damage could get far worse if it gets loose.
Or, we might say, screw it, we don't want to have a depression, so sorry, a couple of hundred thousand mostly old folks are going to die.
(03-11-2020, 11:34 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Angela Merkel just warned that 40 million german citizens could be infected. Series A is basically suspending soccer matches. English premier league just cancelled a match....
Tif this is just a cold...
40 million people x 1% death rate = 400,000 deaths.
You could just read the first few chapters of The Stand to find out how that'd be handled.
*obviously a little tongue in cheek, but this is all playing out basically the same minus the 99% communicability/mortality rate
The biggest danger from this virus is to the economy more than to the health of Americans. If you are age 60+ or have some health problems (particularly respiratory or blood pressure issues) then yes, it might be a bit more concerning. Other than that it's not that big of deal. It's going to eventually pass.
The hype and panic is getting out of control.
Just to put things in perspective, the top 3 leading causes of death in the US are heart disease, cancer, and medical errors.
-about 650,000 people die of heart disease every year
-about 600,000 people die of cancer every year
-about 250,000 people die of medical errors every year
The flu/pneumonia kills about 55,000 people on average. The media is hyping up a corona virus, which is just a new strain of a cold virus (there's a new strain of the flu virus every single year). The only reason you should be worried is if you are elderly or have underlying health problems. No different than the flu.
It's mostly the same people that believe everything the corporate media tells them that buy into the hype and let the fear control them. And for those that don't otherwise trust the media (for good reason), why would you trust them on this? All of a sudden they care about Americans but don't bat at eye at the real threats to our health.
There's a silver lining though, the media is hyping this up to such a great extent that more people will likely wake up from them overplaying their hand and politicizing this to death.
All of you saying this isn't serious need to go tell that to the families of those who are dead. The threat comes from the fact that there is no immunity to this strain of virus. We all have some immunity to the regular flu virus; some more than others. No one has immunity to this one but fortunately is not deadly to healthy (relatively) young folks. Look at the people in this country who have medical/health issues that degrade their immune systems. That is a national pandemic right there. And COVID-19 is the disease caused by this strain of coronavirus and is what is being transmitted and causing death. People seem to be confused by that simple difference.
The reason why Italy has been hit so hard is they have one of the largest populations of people over 65 years old and they live in much smaller communities (and closer face to face proximity to each other) so transmission is swift and deadly.
My parents and in-laws are in their 70's and all have health issues of some sort that would make them extremely susceptible to COVID-19 and would likely die from it if infected, so yes I AM going to take this seriously.
As far as people stocking up on items- NOT panic buying but actual stocking up- I don't see an issue with doing so with stuff made in China. Production has been limited or stopped altogether due to quarantine there which means nothing is being made. What is in warehouses is what there is until production begins again. As an example, if that means I buy more OTC meds than I would normally use in a three month period, then so be it.
We're always prepared to a degree, mostly for foul weather situations, but if I'm at the mercy of the decisions the state of NC makes regarding quarantine timeframes and such, I want to know I can stay in my house/on my property for an extended period of time and not worry about having enough food, personal hygiene items, etc. We have a Democrat governer who refuses to pass a state budget because state republicans won't give in to his temper tantrums so I don't trust him to make sensible decisions for this situation either. I'd feel the same if he were Republican and doing the same thing. But that's a whole other conversation.
(03-11-2020, 03:21 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The biggest danger from this virus is to the economy more than to the health of Americans. If you are age 60+ or have some health problems (particularly respiratory or blood pressure issues) then yes, it might be a bit more concerning. Other than that it's not that big of deal. It's going to eventually pass.
The hype and panic is getting out of control.
Yeah, sick people can go ahead and die. Where's my money?!
(03-11-2020, 03:55 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-11-2020, 03:21 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The biggest danger from this virus is to the economy more than to the health of Americans. If you are age 60+ or have some health problems (particularly respiratory or blood pressure issues) then yes, it might be a bit more concerning. Other than that it's not that big of deal. It's going to eventually pass.
The hype and panic is getting out of control.
Yeah, sick people can go ahead and die. Where's my money?!
You got a solution Mike?
(03-11-2020, 03:47 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]All of you saying this isn't serious need to go tell that to the families of those who are dead.
The reason why Italy has been hit so hard is they have one of the largest populations of people over 65 years old and they live in much smaller communities (and closer face to face proximity to each other) so transmission is swift and deadly.
My parents and in-laws are in their 70's and all have health issues of some sort that would make them extremely susceptible to COVID-19 and would likely die from it if infected, so yes I AM going to take this seriously.
As far as people stocking up on items- NOT panic buying but actual stocking up- I don't see an issue with doing so with stuff made in China. Production has been limited or stopped altogether due to quarantine there which means nothing is being made. What is in warehouses is what there is until production begins again. As an example, if that means I buy more OTC meds than I would normally use in a three month period, then so be it.
We're always prepared to a degree, mostly for foul weather situations, but if I'm at the mercy of the decisions the state of NC makes regarding quarantine timeframes and such, I want to know I can stay in my house/on my property for an extended period of time and not worry about having enough food, personal hygiene items, etc. We have a Democrat governer who refuses to pass a state budget because state republicans won't give in to his temper tantrums so I don't trust him to make sensible decisions for this situation either. I'd feel the same if he were Republican and doing the same thing. But that's a whole other conversation.
With all due respect, you're letting your fear speak for you. Anyone who is at risk should absolutely try to do things that boost their immunity. But what about all the people that died from other causes? That's not important? Consider the amount of hype for the seasonal flu and the amount of deaths of 55,000 on average and compare it to the corona virus. Based on the amount of hype, it has to kill at least 2, 3, 4 or more times as many people right? Are you confident that it will?
I've never seen anyone complain about the lack of outrage over the 55,000 flu deaths a year. This is about control more than anything. And fear is the best weapon to control plain and simple.
(03-11-2020, 04:02 PM)jagfan0728 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-11-2020, 03:47 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]All of you saying this isn't serious need to go tell that to the families of those who are dead.
The reason why Italy has been hit so hard is they have one of the largest populations of people over 65 years old and they live in much smaller communities (and closer face to face proximity to each other) so transmission is swift and deadly.
My parents and in-laws are in their 70's and all have health issues of some sort that would make them extremely susceptible to COVID-19 and would likely die from it if infected, so yes I AM going to take this seriously.
As far as people stocking up on items- NOT panic buying but actual stocking up- I don't see an issue with doing so with stuff made in China. Production has been limited or stopped altogether due to quarantine there which means nothing is being made. What is in warehouses is what there is until production begins again. As an example, if that means I buy more OTC meds than I would normally use in a three month period, then so be it.
We're always prepared to a degree, mostly for foul weather situations, but if I'm at the mercy of the decisions the state of NC makes regarding quarantine timeframes and such, I want to know I can stay in my house/on my property for an extended period of time and not worry about having enough food, personal hygiene items, etc. We have a Democrat governer who refuses to pass a state budget because state republicans won't give in to his temper tantrums so I don't trust him to make sensible decisions for this situation either. I'd feel the same if he were Republican and doing the same thing. But that's a whole other conversation.
With all due respect, you're letting your fear speak for you. Anyone who is at risk should absolutely try to do things that boost their immunity. But what about all the people that died from other causes? That's not important? Consider the amount of hype for the seasonal flu and the amount of deaths of 55,000 on average and compare it to the corona virus. Based on the amount of hype, it has to kill at least 2, 3, 4 or more times as many people right? Are you confident that it will?
I've never seen anyone complain about the lack of outrage over the 55,000 flu deaths a year. This is about control more than anything. And fear is the best weapon to control plain and simple.
Knowing that the normal tendency is to freak out over any new infectious disease, Trump's ongoing effort to downplay COVID's seriousness hasn't helped. In fact, it's done nothing but fan the flames of fear in the general population. When fear strikes, people look toward leadership for answers. Just two weeks ago he said domestic cases could drop to five cases and potentially just 1-2 infected Americans. As of this afternoon, we're over 1,000 cases in the US. At best, Trump was off by nearly 200,000%.
(03-11-2020, 03:47 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]All of you saying this isn't serious need to go tell that to the families of those who are dead. The threat comes from the fact that there is no immunity to this strain of virus. We all have some immunity to the regular flu virus; some more than others. No one has immunity to this one but fortunately is not deadly to healthy (relatively) young folks. Look at the people in this country who have medical/health issues that degrade their immune systems. That is a national pandemic right there. And COVID-19 is the disease caused by this strain of coronavirus and is what is being transmitted and causing death. People seem to be confused by that simple difference.
The reason why Italy has been hit so hard is they have one of the largest populations of people over 65 years old and they live in much smaller communities (and closer face to face proximity to each other) so transmission is swift and deadly.
My parents and in-laws are in their 70's and all have health issues of some sort that would make them extremely susceptible to COVID-19 and would likely die from it if infected, so yes I AM going to take this seriously.
As far as people stocking up on items- NOT panic buying but actual stocking up- I don't see an issue with doing so with stuff made in China. Production has been limited or stopped altogether due to quarantine there which means nothing is being made. What is in warehouses is what there is until production begins again. As an example, if that means I buy more OTC meds than I would normally use in a three month period, then so be it.
We're always prepared to a degree, mostly for foul weather situations, but if I'm at the mercy of the decisions the state of NC makes regarding quarantine timeframes and such, I want to know I can stay in my house/on my property for an extended period of time and not worry about having enough food, personal hygiene items, etc. We have a Democrat governer who refuses to pass a state budget because state republicans won't give in to his temper tantrums so I don't trust him to make sensible decisions for this situation either. I'd feel the same if he were Republican and doing the same thing. But that's a whole other conversation.
My parents (in-laws are already deceased) are well into their 80's. Of course I worry about them, but that doesn't mean that a place of business that employs 20, 30 or 40 something people needs to shut down (Microsoft being an example). The thing is my parents don't HAVE to go out and interact with other people. They can (and do) take the necessary precautions like washing their hands often (which should be a common practice anyway).
Is shutting schools down a reasonable response? Absolutely not. Closing university campus? Nope.
It's gotten stupid. This is all panic and fear driven by the MSM as well a social media. Remember SARS? Swine Flu? This really isn't much different other than today's "connected" society. It's really no big deal.