(04-02-2021, 11:48 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2021, 06:45 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree we shouldn't trample on people's rights and try to force them to get a vaccine they don't want, when did people flip in their opinion about getting vaccinated? If anything advocates were concerned development of a vaccine would end up taking to long. The anti-vaxers have likewise maintained their positions AFAIK.
I followed up that statement with talking about the media and their narrative. I guess I should have prefaced my rant to say I was ranting about the media.
Also, the left was not going to have anything to do with Trump's vaccine (as if he brewed it up in his basement himself) but Biden's vaccine is golden. It would be interesting to see an alternate universe where Trump is still POTUS and who on the left would be lined up to get their "golden ticket." Especially all the celebs sharing pictures and video of getting their shot. And would a travel passport even be a discussion?
Most people getting the vaccine would still be getting it I believe.
The angst about Operation Warpspeed wasn't about the vaccine development per se, it was about a lack of transparency over how the funding would be applied and how oversight would be conducted. Back before Trump was even willing to admit the virus was an actual problem, people were clambering for action. Later, when action was taken, people were clambering for information. Given his earlier reticence, the most important thing at that time for many people was that the executive branch wasn't the sole arbiter of oversight or information coming out about the research efforts.
The question about a vaccine/travel passport is an interesting one to raise. Hypothetically, given the former President's position on the importance of personal documentation and border controls, I think it would have been even more likely, not less.
(04-02-2021, 10:19 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2021, 09:47 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The heck they aren't. I've had dozens of conversations with people who think it's the Mark, that they wanna change your DNA, copyright your DNA, sterilize you, outright kill you...the world has gone full on looney over this shot.
The U.S. has, that's for sure. Have you followed it on the international level? I think the political hysteria here is driving the paranoia.
Agreed, the conspiracy theories are driving a level of paranoia not seen since the peak of the communist/coldwar era in the 1950s. The difference today is the speed at which misinformation travels is unprecedented.
The difference today is the total politicization of our major institutions. When people can't trust the experts, they will be more inclined to believe anything.
And our institutions are not credible. Period.
(04-02-2021, 10:40 AM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ]If the vaccine researchers, medical professionals, and politicians weren't taking it and were telling everyone else to, then I'd be a lot more concerned, but every doctor I personally know, as well as my family members who work for McKesson and directly with Operation Warp Speed, are taking it. So, my choice is I'll choose to trust them.
Some vaccine researchers have come out against it. Medical professionals unfortunately can't be trusted because most of them just do what pharma or a media group says. Most doctors have 0 time to put in their own research so they have to rely on papers and medical groups.
I've been in that world, I know what the pharma companies do. They pay doctors to speak about their products, they pay for papers to be written, and then the reps show up and say look at all this you should prescribe our products.
You should ask the doctors if they have actually reviewed the trials and what the long term effects are. I can guarantee that any doctor who does would say to wait. You can also forget about other medical professionals as I don't know why you would trust their opinion.
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That's not fair. Plenty of doctors have reviewed the data and think it's safe. My doctor thinks it's safe, but also understands why health people might want to wait.
That said, there is unbelievable pressure among health care professionals to take this vaccine. My wife is a doctor, and I know several of her colleagues have expressed concerns but take it anyways. As a general rule, I don't believe doctors can be the most cynical voices in the scientific community. There is too much to know in a field that falls desperately short in labor.
Again, this may end up being the safest vaccine in recorded history in the long run. The mRNA vaccines may revolutionize healthcare. I'm just saying we can't know that yet. In my opinion, it's reckless to do a universal rollout, at this point in the process. People who are not at risk are putting a lot of faith in the scientific community, but I hope it pays off for them.
(04-03-2021, 09:37 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]A real pandemic wouldn’t require a marketing campaign.
- Candace Owens
Lies get half way around the world before the truth can get its pants on.
(04-03-2021, 01:22 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]That's not fair. Plenty of doctors have reviewed the data and think it's safe. My doctor thinks it's safe, but also understands why health people might want to wait.
That said, there is unbelievable pressure among health care professionals to take this vaccine. My wife is a doctor, and I know several of her colleagues have expressed concerns but take it anyways. As a general rule, I don't believe doctors can be the most cynical voices in the scientific community. There is too much to know in a field that falls desperately short in labor.
Again, this may end up being the safest vaccine in recorded history in the long run. The mRNA vaccines may revolutionize healthcare. I'm just saying we can't know that yet. In my opinion, it's reckless to do a universal rollout, at this point in the process. People who are not at risk are putting a lot of faith in the scientific community, but I hope it pays off for them.
That's better said than how I put it. With there being no long-term info, there is no way to say it is safe or not long-term. Currently it probably won't kill you, you may get some side effects, but you won't really know what could happen in the future.
The theatrics of COVID are senseless. NCAA basketball players can play skin to skin on the floor, but they must be seated six feet apart on the sidelines. It's idiotic.
(04-03-2021, 05:24 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2021, 01:22 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]That's not fair. Plenty of doctors have reviewed the data and think it's safe. My doctor thinks it's safe, but also understands why health people might want to wait.
That said, there is unbelievable pressure among health care professionals to take this vaccine. My wife is a doctor, and I know several of her colleagues have expressed concerns but take it anyways. As a general rule, I don't believe doctors can be the most cynical voices in the scientific community. There is too much to know in a field that falls desperately short in labor.
Again, this may end up being the safest vaccine in recorded history in the long run. The mRNA vaccines may revolutionize healthcare. I'm just saying we can't know that yet. In my opinion, it's reckless to do a universal rollout, at this point in the process. People who are not at risk are putting a lot of faith in the scientific community, but I hope it pays off for them.
That's better said than how I put it. With there being no long-term info, there is no way to say it is safe or not long-term. Currently it probably won't kill you, you may get some side effects, but you won't really know what could happen in the future.
All of the things you're both saying can be said about COVID-19 if you get it, though. In fact, we already know some people are experiencing longer-term side effects from it, and not to mention the death toll. Any of that, so far, is way worse than anything coming out from the vaccines.
Having said that, to each their own. If you don't want it (yet), don't get it, just my personal opinion coming from professionals I know working in fields they're experts in whom I trust since I know them personally.
(04-04-2021, 01:13 PM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2021, 05:24 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]That's better said than how I put it. With there being no long-term info, there is no way to say it is safe or not long-term. Currently it probably won't kill you, you may get some side effects, but you won't really know what could happen in the future.
All of the things you're both saying can be said about COVID-19 if you get it, though. In fact, we already know some people are experiencing longer-term side effects from it, and not to mention the death toll. Any of that, so far, is way worse than anything coming out from the vaccines.
Having said that, to each their own. If you don't want it (yet), don't get it, just my personal opinion coming from professionals I know working in fields they're experts in whom I trust since I know them personally.
C'mon now, they're just unscrupulous patsies paid to be the mouthpieces for Big Pharma so they can kill everyone.
Vaccinated people are still being treated like prisoners. After this test run, the government will never give up their new found power.
(04-04-2021, 01:23 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Vaccinated people are still being treated like prisoners. After this test run, the government will never give up their new found power.
They should be, until we have a sizable number of vaccinated people they are still a threat to spread the virus to unvaccinated people. This is basic epidemiology.
(04-03-2021, 01:22 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]That's not fair. Plenty of doctors have reviewed the data and think it's safe. My doctor thinks it's safe, but also understands why health people might want to wait.
That said, there is unbelievable pressure among health care professionals to take this vaccine. My wife is a doctor, and I know several of her colleagues have expressed concerns but take it anyways. As a general rule, I don't believe doctors can be the most cynical voices in the scientific community. There is too much to know in a field that falls desperately short in labor.
Again, this may end up being the safest vaccine in recorded history in the long run. The mRNA vaccines may revolutionize healthcare. I'm just saying we can't know that yet. In my opinion, it's reckless to do a universal rollout, at this point in the process. People who are not at risk are putting a lot of faith in the scientific community, but I hope it pays off for them.
To be fair, what options did we have? There were really only two choices.
1) Ongoing business closures for another 2-3 years during a very gradual vaccination distribution. The national debt is already going up like a skyrocket and small businesses are closing, many forever. If major corporations start to fall, the sound will be resounding.
2) Open everything back up without restrictions and run the risk of overwhelming the health care industry and who knows what else. Remember how crazy things were in the grocery store less than a year ago just because people were hoarding in anticipation? Imagine how it would be in a real crisis if the trucking industry stopped moving for even a few days.
The answer is obvious to me: I think we should simply vaccinate the people that are high risk, then let the rest of us get herd immunity naturally. Until then, encourage people to keep their Vitamin D above 40, and supplement with Vit C and zinc when you feel sick (the best way to prevent getting severely sick from Coronavirus). After we've measured the virus and after effects for 2-5 years, we can roll it out for anyone that wants it. Honestly, I don't even really care if we open it up to anyone that wants it, but it should also made clear that there are potential side effects.
Our media should be responsible and talk about the role Vit D plays with this virus. World data shows that 90% of people being admitted to the hospital for this are Vit D deficient. Americans shouldn't be living in fear when the solution is simple.
(04-04-2021, 02:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2021, 01:23 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Vaccinated people are still being treated like prisoners. After this test run, the government will never give up their new found power.
They should be, until we have a sizable number of vaccinated people they are still a threat to spread the virus to unvaccinated people. This is basic epidemiology.
Stop right there. Explain to me how a person that has has the virus needs the vaccine. If you have had the virus your immune system has already done the job of a vaccine and you have natural immunity. Also riddle me this, why if I have had the vaccine do I need to continue wearing a mask?
(04-04-2021, 07:28 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2021, 02:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]They should be, until we have a sizable number of vaccinated people they are still a threat to spread the virus to unvaccinated people. This is basic epidemiology.
Stop right there. Explain to me how a person that has has the virus needs the vaccine. If you have had the virus your immune system has already done the job of a vaccine and you have natural immunity. Also riddle me this, why if I have had the vaccine do I need to continue wearing a mask?
The CDC has flip flopped on this one a couple times. It's no wonder nobody believes anything anybody says.
(04-04-2021, 07:28 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2021, 02:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]They should be, until we have a sizable number of vaccinated people they are still a threat to spread the virus to unvaccinated people. This is basic epidemiology.
Stop right there. Explain to me how a person that has has the virus needs the vaccine. If you have had the virus your immune system has already done the job of a vaccine and you have natural immunity. Also riddle me this, why if I have had the vaccine do I need to continue wearing a mask?
1. No vaccine is 100% effective, this one is around 85% effective so many people who get shot will still not get the benefit.
1a. Fully half the population will refuse to get it at all.
2. We do not have enough vaccine or time for everyone to have received it yet.
3. Many people are unable to get the vaccine at all because of prior history or known allergies.
4. We do not yet know if those who have been vaccinated can still acquire the virus, be asymptomatic, and transmit it, so even if you don't get sick you might still make other people ill.
5. We do not yet know how long the immunity will last.
6. We are seeing "breakthrough cases" where people test positive after vaccination and that might be due to a manufacturing error.
In short, a lot of people are still at risk while many who think they are safe actually aren't. The best way to combat this is for everyone to continue with Standard Precautions until the case numbers drop.
An no, this isn't some conspiracy. Polio wasn't eradicated for almost 15 years after the vaccine was developed, but cases fell to less than 100 within 5 years. It just takes time for to either burn out or die out from lack of hosts.
(04-04-2021, 08:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2021, 07:28 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Stop right there. Explain to me how a person that has has the virus needs the vaccine. If you have had the virus your immune system has already done the job of a vaccine and you have natural immunity. Also riddle me this, why if I have had the vaccine do I need to continue wearing a mask?
1. No vaccine is 100% effective, this one is around 85% effective so many people who get shot will still not get the benefit.
1a. Fully half the population will refuse to get it at all.
2. We do not have enough vaccine or time for everyone to have received it yet.
3. Many people are unable to get the vaccine at all because of prior history or known allergies.
4. We do not yet know if those who have been vaccinated can still acquire the virus, be asymptomatic, and transmit it, so even if you don't get sick you might still make other people ill.
5. We do not yet know how long the immunity will last.
6. We are seeing "breakthrough cases" where people test positive after vaccination and that might be due to a manufacturing error.
In short, a lot of people are still at risk while many who think they are safe actually aren't. The best way to combat this is for everyone to continue with Standard Precautions until the case numbers drop.
You are making my case for me. Have you watched the video Bunny posted?