(12-23-2021, 01:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 12:37 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]https://247sports.com/Article/Jacksonvil...178777113/
Martindale at HC with Cullen at DC would make the Jags a defensive powerhouse in 2 years or less.
I'd dig it, but the OC choice would be CRUCIAL
Agreed, I think the biggest reason we drafted Campbell was because of Cullen in Myers ear. Campbell is the prototypical corner in what Cullen and Martindale wants. With the addition of Hutch or Thibs and a new MLB like Mosses or Campbell, the D would be nasty. Cisco as well
Pass on Wink even though he’s a really good DC.
This off season is about one thing and one thing only…. Trevor’s development. The best way to ensure he develops properly is to have an offensive minded coach so that even with the OC leaves, the continuity is the same.
I don't really think Wink brings anything that Cullen doesn't already.
The guy selecting personnel is probably the most important. Can't keep squandering draft capital on role players. I prefer the idea of a quarterback whisperer at head coach because Trevor having continuity is probably the most important thing, and if they hire defensive guys and Trevor does well then the coordinators and coaches with him will get poached after a couple of years. I'd like Trevor to have stability for at least 3 consecutive seasons. Having a good offensive head coach who can make sure the coordinators are doing their job and a personnel guy who doesn't reach for bad players in the hopes they'll be good enough to fill a roster hole is what this team badly needs.
(12-23-2021, 01:08 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Pass on Wink even though he’s a really good DC.
This off season is about one thing and one thing only…. Trevor’s development. The best way to ensure he develops properly is to have an offensive minded coach so that even with the OC leaves, the continuity is the same.
It absolutely must be. He’s the only saving grace in this entire organization.
(12-22-2021, 07:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2021, 05:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Don't be too sure.
There was a lot of antipathy towards Leftwich when he was here. There was more hatred towards him than any other Jaguars' QB.
I would say Urban Meyer is the only Jaguar more despised by the fanbase.
I don't understand why though. I never had a problem with Leftwich. I blamed Harris and Jack Del Rio more than anything during those years as a teenager. It always bothered me that they shipped off Brunell, drafted Leftwich and completely erased the fact that Garrard had potential much earlier on in his career.
They never really gave these guys a chance. I think it was just for the sake of being edgy or splashy at the time. Brunell took the Washington Football team to the play-offs with Joe Gibbs so he still had some football left in the tank then.
Garrard could have developed into the next McNair or McNabb. I still remember that run he broke off in a blowout loss to the clots on the road where he was so strong from pulling away from a defender on a crazy run downfield that his jersey was ripped off partially.
I will say this though about Harris and Del Rio. They were never this awful over the last 10 years. They also tried to add pieces around their QB. Reggie Williams, Ernest Wilford, Greg Jones, Matt Jones, Marcedes Lewis, Maurice Jones-Drew, Mike Sims-Walker, Mike Thomas, Zach Miller, Cecil Shorts, Justin Blackmon, etc.
They took some shots. They missed some. They won some. They also picked up some pretty solid defensive players here and there as well. Looking back on it, as much as we may have [BLEEP] and complained. They were at least consistently showing some level of competency in, let's be honest, a much, much more difficult AFC South to compete in during that time. You still had Manning in his prime and McNair to contest with around those days. The tinhorns also had a formidable offense for a good stretch.
Harris wasn't awful. He was 54-46 as GM with the Jaguars. They were a wildcard team in 2 of his 6 years, but never a division winner and only 1 playoff victory during that span. His teams typically had a good running games and defenses. He just made some major blunders in terms of the passing game. He took a bust in Leftwich at #7 overall. This was compounded by the fact that it could be considered an unforced error. Although getting up there in age, the team still had Brunell who was effective. Brunell continued to have a great year the following year when traded to another team. Interestingly enough, Brunell actually ended up retiring only one season earlier than Leftwich. In addition to Brunell, the team also had David Garrard on the roster when drafting Leftwhich. Leftwich ended up getting cut in favor of Garrard. Harris also followed up by trying to give Leftwich weapons by taking a wide receiver in the first round in the next two years. However, he ended up with the extremely disappointing Reggie Williams and Matt Jones. It should also be noted that because Harris drafted Leftwich, he passed up the opportunity to take Ben Roethlisberger the year following Leftwich. He did make some nice picks including MJD, Rashean Mathis and Daryl Smith. Ultimately, the kiss of death for Harris was 2008 where the team had acquired a bunch of extra picks, but used most of them to trade up for defensive ends in the first and second round. Both of them were busts. That draft remains the worst in Jaguars history. Again, overall, he was solid. Some hits and some misses. He tended to do well in the second round, but not the first. He's clearly better than what we've had since him, but also not someone that I would want to rehire.
(12-23-2021, 02:38 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2021, 07:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand why though. I never had a problem with Leftwich. I blamed Harris and Jack Del Rio more than anything during those years as a teenager. It always bothered me that they shipped off Brunell, drafted Leftwich and completely erased the fact that Garrard had potential much earlier on in his career.
They never really gave these guys a chance. I think it was just for the sake of being edgy or splashy at the time. Brunell took the Washington Football team to the play-offs with Joe Gibbs so he still had some football left in the tank then.
Garrard could have developed into the next McNair or McNabb. I still remember that run he broke off in a blowout loss to the clots on the road where he was so strong from pulling away from a defender on a crazy run downfield that his jersey was ripped off partially.
I will say this though about Harris and Del Rio. They were never this awful over the last 10 years. They also tried to add pieces around their QB. Reggie Williams, Ernest Wilford, Greg Jones, Matt Jones, Marcedes Lewis, Maurice Jones-Drew, Mike Sims-Walker, Mike Thomas, Zach Miller, Cecil Shorts, Justin Blackmon, etc.
They took some shots. They missed some. They won some. They also picked up some pretty solid defensive players here and there as well. Looking back on it, as much as we may have [BLEEP] and complained. They were at least consistently showing some level of competency in, let's be honest, a much, much more difficult AFC South to compete in during that time. You still had Manning in his prime and McNair to contest with around those days. The tinhorns also had a formidable offense for a good stretch.
Harris wasn't awful. He was 54-46 as GM with the Jaguars. They were a wildcard team in 2 of his 6 years, but never a division winner and only 1 playoff victory during that span. His teams typically had a good running games and defenses. He just made some major blunders in terms of the passing game. He took a bust in Leftwich at #7 overall. This was compounded by the fact that it could be considered an unforced error. Although getting up there in age, the team still had Brunell who was effective. Brunell continued to have a great year the following year when traded to another team. Interestingly enough, Brunell actually ended up retiring only one season earlier than Leftwich. In addition to Brunell, the team also had David Garrard on the roster when drafting Leftwhich. Leftwich ended up getting cut in favor of Garrard. Harris also followed up by trying to give Leftwich weapons by taking a wide receiver in the first round in the next two years. However, he ended up with the extremely disappointing Reggie Williams and Matt Jones. It should also be noted that because Harris drafted Leftwich, he passed up the opportunity to take Ben Roethlisberger the year following Leftwich. He did make some nice picks including MJD, Rashean Mathis and Daryl Smith. Ultimately, the kiss of death for Harris was 2008 where the team had acquired a bunch of extra picks, but used most of them to trade up for defensive ends in the first and second round. Both of them were busts. That draft remains the worst in Jaguars history. Again, overall, he was solid. Some hits and some misses. He tended to do well in the second round, but not the first. He's clearly better than what we've had since him, but also not someone that I would want to rehire.
The Shack years essentially brought the Jaguars to where we are now. The core of success on the Jaguars during the 2005-2007 time-frame was what Coughlin left the team with (Fred, Stroud, Henderson) along with a few decent pickups during Shack's time. Shack's drafting was so bad that by the time MJD was spent the team was pretty barren, and everyone that's followed since has kept on taking terrible players. Gene Smith essentially was just another Shack, a needs drafter that couldn't evaluate QBs and who was throwing good draft picks after bad ones. Caldwell actually did do a decent job of amassing some talent, but he couldn't evaluate QBs, either.
Right now we got lucky that Trevor was a blindingly obvious pick, but he won't work out if the team can't get someone in the building that understands draft value, either.
(12-23-2021, 01:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 01:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Martindale at HC with Cullen at DC would make the Jags a defensive powerhouse in 2 years or less.
I'd dig it, but the OC choice would be CRUCIAL
Agreed, I think the biggest reason we drafted Campbell was because of Cullen in Myers ear. Campbell is the prototypical corner in what Cullen and Martindale wants. With the addition of Hutch or Thibs and a new MLB like Mosses or Campbell, the D would be nasty. Cisco as well
Tyson Campbell is literally the opposite of what Cullen wants in his system.
(12-23-2021, 04:28 PM)Khan Artist Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 01:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, I think the biggest reason we drafted Campbell was because of Cullen in Myers ear. Campbell is the prototypical corner in what Cullen and Martindale wants. With the addition of Hutch or Thibs and a new MLB like Mosses or Campbell, the D would be nasty. Cisco as well
Tyson Campbell is literally the opposite of what Cullen wants in his system.
Cullen wants fast corners with good size and length, that's exactly what Campbell is. He is improving in his man defense as well where Cullen can mix up his coverages
NYC4Jags, I always value your opinion....
Do you have a top candidate or top 3 that you prefer the most? Sorry if I missed it.
(12-23-2021, 06:52 PM)Brett Wrote: [ -> ]NYC4Jags, I always value your opinion....
Do you have a top candidate or top 3 that you prefer the most? Sorry if I missed it.
Kind of you to say so, but I haven't done my due diligence on enough candidates to have a strong opinion.
I'll say that while I like Leftwich quite a bit, I lean toward more experience right now because I'm jarred by the attempt at a coach with no NFL experience in '21 and its utter failure.
I'm keeping an open mind, though.
Guys I'd like to see interviewed include:
J McDaniels
Pederson
Roman
Frazier
Brian Callahan
Bieniemy
Mike McDaniel
I think it has to come down to whomever convinces Khan and his consultants that they're the best option to equip Lawrence with the best chance to succeed via the right scheme, game planning, roster additions, and player development.
I won't pretend to know who that is with the almost zero time I have to research candidates this time around.
(12-23-2021, 01:38 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The guy selecting personnel is probably the most important. Can't keep squandering draft capital on role players. I prefer the idea of a quarterback whisperer at head coach because Trevor having continuity is probably the most important thing, and if they hire defensive guys and Trevor does well then the coordinators and coaches with him will get poached after a couple of years. I'd like Trevor to have stability for at least 3 consecutive seasons. Having a good offensive head coach who can make sure the coordinators are doing their job and a personnel guy who doesn't reach for bad players in the hopes they'll be good enough to fill a roster hole is what this team badly needs.
This is the only allure I have for Caldwell as the next head coach. Bring him in to stabilize the franchise and bring Trevor along. The OC would need to be someone that we could look to as the heir to Caldwell thus generating the continuity we want for TLaw. But that is the only scenario I see for hiring Caldwell as the coach.
(12-23-2021, 07:53 PM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 01:38 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The guy selecting personnel is probably the most important. Can't keep squandering draft capital on role players. I prefer the idea of a quarterback whisperer at head coach because Trevor having continuity is probably the most important thing, and if they hire defensive guys and Trevor does well then the coordinators and coaches with him will get poached after a couple of years. I'd like Trevor to have stability for at least 3 consecutive seasons. Having a good offensive head coach who can make sure the coordinators are doing their job and a personnel guy who doesn't reach for bad players in the hopes they'll be good enough to fill a roster hole is what this team badly needs.
This is the only allure I have for Caldwell as the next head coach. Bring him in to stabilize the franchise and bring Trevor along. The OC would need to be someone that we could look to as the heir to Caldwell thus generating the continuity we want for TLaw. But that is the only scenario I see for hiring Caldwell as the coach.
Texans WR Coach Robert Prince, who was the Lions WR Coach under Jim Caldwell and Matt Patricia, comes to mind as a very realistic possibility as Caldwell's Offensive Coordinator, if he becomes an NFL HC again. Marvin Jones and Jamal Agnew both were coached by Prince, who has a good reputation as an NFL WR Coach.
(12-23-2021, 07:53 PM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 01:38 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The guy selecting personnel is probably the most important. Can't keep squandering draft capital on role players. I prefer the idea of a quarterback whisperer at head coach because Trevor having continuity is probably the most important thing, and if they hire defensive guys and Trevor does well then the coordinators and coaches with him will get poached after a couple of years. I'd like Trevor to have stability for at least 3 consecutive seasons. Having a good offensive head coach who can make sure the coordinators are doing their job and a personnel guy who doesn't reach for bad players in the hopes they'll be good enough to fill a roster hole is what this team badly needs.
This is the only allure I have for Caldwell as the next head coach. Bring him in to stabilize the franchise and bring Trevor along. The OC would need to be someone that we could look to as the heir to Caldwell thus generating the continuity we want for TLaw. But that is the only scenario I see for hiring Caldwell as the coach.
Here's an interesting take from a local beat guy on Pederson at HC and Caldwell at QB coach/asst HC:
https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...28257?s=20
https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/how-...r-lawrence
McDaniels is my top choice by a hair, but I will admit Pederson and Caldwell combo does sound nice and maybe more than anything extremely respectable league wide.
(12-23-2021, 08:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 07:53 PM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: [ -> ]This is the only allure I have for Caldwell as the next head coach. Bring him in to stabilize the franchise and bring Trevor along. The OC would need to be someone that we could look to as the heir to Caldwell thus generating the continuity we want for TLaw. But that is the only scenario I see for hiring Caldwell as the coach.
Here's an interesting take from a local beat guy on Pederson at HC and Caldwell at QB coach/asst HC:
https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...28257?s=20
https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/how-...r-lawrence
That coaching combo seems great if Khan can get everyone to agree to it.
(12-23-2021, 10:40 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 08:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Here's an interesting take from a local beat guy on Pederson at HC and Caldwell at QB coach/asst HC:
https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...28257?s=20
https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/how-...r-lawrence
That coaching combo seems great if Khan can get everyone to agree to it.
That's the first I've heard of that combo, but I'd be all for this. Khan would need to pay Caldwell more than the average QB coach/asst. HC, but he can obviously afford it. Even if Khan passes on Pederson as HC, I like the idea of Caldwell in this other role.
Based on the very little bit I know about all the potential candidates, my top three are currently:
1. Doug Pederson
2. Josh McDaniels
3. Byron Leftwich
I don’t like talk of Khan making a decision on coaches. My football fantasy is he has hired consultation to help him choose. Otherwise, we’re doomed. He’s a brilliant businessman, but an awful assessor of football staff. Hopefully the Urban Meyer experience has shocked him into the reality that these are not capricious decisions and that continuity can sometimes be detrimental.
(12-24-2021, 07:27 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t like talk of Khan making a decision on coaches. My football fantasy is he has hired consultation to help him choose. Otherwise, we’re doomed. He’s a brilliant businessman, but an awful assessor of football staff. Hopefully the Urban Meyer experience has shocked him into the reality that these are not capricious decisions and that continuity can sometimes be detrimental.
Like he did back in 2016?
I think he should probably be talking to a lot of people, and whether it's coaches to get an idea of who they respect as personnel managers or personnel managers to get an idea of who they respect as molders of talent, just be thorough and don't sign a guy just because you like him (is that what happened to bring Urban in?), sign a guy because you've been convinced he has the skill to do the job, then get out of his way.
One way or another Khan is making a choice and trusting someone, whether it's his own hire, or hiring someone to hire someone.