(12-26-2021, 12:56 PM)newporttom Wrote: [ -> ]Not that either is likely to be available, but if either Payton or Tomlin were let go, they jump to top of list.
Did a little more research on Pederson. Apparently he was never allowed to picks his assistants and it was his insistence on finally naming his own OC that was the breaking point. He wanted Press Taylor (Zac Taylor's brother) who is now an Offensive Asst with Indy. Pederson in said to be assembling a staff and that Press Taylor will be his OC wherever he goes. So Pederson likes Taylor, and obviously Reich does.
Makes you think that if he is assembling a staff and has picked an OC, he probably has a DC in mind, and that would be the end of Cullen.
I like that he took a year off and assessed his coaching.
So Pederson is my #1 - I think they chances of success are high and failure low. But he is from Washington State and said coaching at home would be appealing so if you want Pederson, root for Carroll to be retained.
Caldwell is a safe choice. But I think with him the chances of success is average and chance of failure low. One thing that put me off about Caldwell is age. He's 67 in a month. If it takes three years for us to be a contender he'll be 70. His sideline demeanor worries me. He always seemed to be in a stupor. And in his two stints as HC teams started off hot and then drifted to mediocre. I think Caldwell could get you to 9-7. I worry it would never go higher. Where I would like Caldwell is if you hire a first time HC, tp put him in a VP position as a mentor.
In seven seasons as head coach, Caldwell went higher than 9-7 three times including a 14-2 season. He also went exactly 9-7 twice. He only had two losing seasons in seven years and one of them was still 7-9. The only time he went below that was a season where his starting quarterback was lost for the season, and they didn't have a competent backup on the team. If you feel that 9-7 is "mediocre", then you shouldn't like Pederson. 4 out of his 5 seasons were 9-7 or worse.
That being said, I agree with your other point. Caldwell is about turn to 67. That's his big negative. If it weren't for that, he would be my first choice among the candidates being mentioned (not counting head coaches still employed).
It's gone from the experts saying Baalke will be gone too, to he will probably be gone when the season ends, to he will likely be gone if we make an outside hire. I do not like the way this is trending whatsoever.
(12-26-2021, 01:14 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 12:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Really?
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sport...840917007/
And Marrone?
When Caldwell got here, did he clean house and get a new staff? Or did he get stuck with the last regime as a holdover? Shad admits that Caldwell was insistent he clean house, so why did he wait a year? Could it be that our owner was too involved early on? I think Dave was too young and too weak to stand up for himself, and I strongly suspect the same with Bradley hiring. It's hard to take any "after the fact" commentary as gospel truth, so that link doesn't mean much. What about the Marrone hiring? Did Dave have full say on that? Or was it Coughlin? We don't know.
What we do know, is that there hasn't been a clean slate since Khan got here. Fire everyone. Hire a quality GM, then get out of the way.
And I don't mean that we can't keep a few assistant coaches. I'd be fine with keeping Cullen or McCardell (when he was here).
However, I do want a GM/Coach tandem that are tied at the hip. Win, or you're both gone. This is the best way to run an NFL franchise, imo. I don't think you should ever have leadership that remains when you clean out the previous regime unless the GM has clearly established himself.
Yes, we do because Marrone was hired before Coughlin. People often seem to forget that. Coughlin did say that he liked the Marrone hire and would have been one his top two choices.
(12-18-2021, 09:05 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2021, 07:46 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]No experience? Are you dense or do you just think a HC has to have previous head coaching experience? If so, where do the new head coaches come from? Try thinking before you speak bra.
What the hell has he done for you to honestly think that Leftwich can be a head coach for any NFL team, let alone a team in utter disarray? Are you dense bra or do you just have a hard on for Mr. Wich?
So you think a HC has to have prior head coaching experience to be successful? How do you suppose anyone gets a HC gig in the first place? News flash: most head coaching candidates are coordinators first. I don't think he's necessarily the best candidate but saying he has no experience makes no sense.
I see some people wanting to hire a VP of Football Operations. I oppose that approach. If the VP has no power, then there's no point. Are we giving him power to over-rule the GM on personnel moves? If so, you are removing accountability from the GM. The GM can blame the VP for failures. The VP can blame the GM and no one knows who is responsible. We saw this with Coughlin and Caldwell. Another option would be to give the VP the power to "advise" but not over-rule the GM. I don't like that either. When your boss advises you to do something, most will do it. At a minimum, you are being pressured into doing something that you don't want to do. You are still removing accountability from the GM. I think you try to find the best football mind you can to be your GM and then let him do his job. If he doesn't, you know who to hold accountable and move on to someone else.
I also like the GM picking the head coach. First, I think the GM is actually more important than the coach, so you want the best one possible. Good GM candidates will want the power to pick their coach. Second, it's again about accountability. He can't say "I picked good players but the coaches are incompetent" if he is the one who picked the coach.
(12-26-2021, 01:50 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 01:14 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]When Caldwell got here, did he clean house and get a new staff? Or did he get stuck with the last regime as a holdover? Shad admits that Caldwell was insistent he clean house, so why did he wait a year? Could it be that our owner was too involved early on? I think Dave was too young and too weak to stand up for himself, and I strongly suspect the same with Bradley hiring. It's hard to take any "after the fact" commentary as gospel truth, so that link doesn't mean much. What about the Marrone hiring? Did Dave have full say on that? Or was it Coughlin? We don't know.
What we do know, is that there hasn't been a clean slate since Khan got here. Fire everyone. Hire a quality GM, then get out of the way.
And I don't mean that we can't keep a few assistant coaches. I'd be fine with keeping Cullen or McCardell (when he was here).
However, I do want a GM/Coach tandem that are tied at the hip. Win, or you're both gone. This is the best way to run an NFL franchise, imo. I don't think you should ever have leadership that remains when you clean out the previous regime unless the GM has clearly established himself.
Yes, we do because Marrone was hired before Coughlin. People often seem to forget that. Coughlin did say that he liked the Marrone hire and would have been one his top two choices.
I still don't think Caldwell had as much as influence as you guys say, but I don't want my point to be lost on defending Caldwell.The point is that we have never cleaned house. There's always a holdover at the leadership position, and accountability gets passed around. Get a GM. Fire everyone else. Let him pick his coach. Let the coach pick his staff, then hold people accountable.
(12-26-2021, 05:16 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 01:50 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, we do because Marrone was hired before Coughlin. People often seem to forget that. Coughlin did say that he liked the Marrone hire and would have been one his top two choices.
I still don't think Caldwell had as much as influence as you guys say, but I don't want my point to be lost on defending Caldwell.The point is that we have never cleaned house. There's always a holdover at the leadership position, and accountability gets passed around. Get a GM. Fire everyone else. Let him pick his coach. Let the coach pick his staff, then hold people accountable.
I agree at 100%. We have to finally do things the right way. No holdovers, and no sympathy hires for guys already on the staff.
(12-26-2021, 06:14 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 05:16 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't think Caldwell had as much as influence as you guys say, but I don't want my point to be lost on defending Caldwell.The point is that we have never cleaned house. There's always a holdover at the leadership position, and accountability gets passed around. Get a GM. Fire everyone else. Let him pick his coach. Let the coach pick his staff, then hold people accountable.
I agree at 100%. We have to finally do things the right way. No holdovers, and no sympathy hires for guys already on the staff.
I don't think any of us are advocating that. This discussion was about Khan "not doing it the right way before" when it's pretty clear he's used a textbook process each time.
Anyone watching the Dallas game? Does Kellen Moore move up the list?
(12-27-2021, 12:00 AM)NM Jag Fan Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 11:57 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone watching the Dallas game? Does Kellen Moore move up the list?
Once he reaches puberty.
LOL.
He's 33. It's interesting though that McCarthy retained him after Garrett was fired.
I think he calls a good offense, but, he's still inexperienced. Could he actually handle coaching an entire team?
Would he still run the offense? His age and experience at QB could help Lawrence. My concern, is, what would his staff also look like?
How many connections does he have at 33 to make a complete, competent and consistent staff?
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(12-26-2021, 01:46 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]It's gone from the experts saying Baalke will be gone too, to he will probably be gone when the season ends, to he will likely be gone if we make an outside hire. I do not like the way this is trending whatsoever.
Sigh.. sadly we will probably screw it up again. Need more torn acls and smarter by half types.
(12-26-2021, 06:50 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 06:14 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I agree at 100%. We have to finally do things the right way. No holdovers, and no sympathy hires for guys already on the staff.
I don't think any of us are advocating that. This discussion was about Khan "not doing it the right way before" when it's pretty clear he's used a textbook process each time.
No. I'm saying the "right way" is cleaning house and creating a clear line of accountability. Khan's way has not been textbook, because coaches and gms often get tied to the hip, with the GM usually getting a bit more leeway. The way Khan is doing it is creating a leadership vacuum.
(12-27-2021, 12:42 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 06:50 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think any of us are advocating that. This discussion was about Khan "not doing it the right way before" when it's pretty clear he's used a textbook process each time.
No. I'm saying the "right way" is cleaning house and creating a clear line of accountability. Khan's way has not been textbook, because coaches and gms often get tied to the hip, with the GM usually getting a bit more leeway. The way Khan is doing it is creating a leadership vacuum.
He did that the first time when he axed Smith/Mularkey and hired DC/Bobblehead. Then he tried a different tactic the second time by hiring inhouse and adding in a 3rd voice. Then this time he tried a big splash college coach and a vet GM. He's tried several "right ways" that haven't mattered because the people chosen failed.
I was wrong. Just looked it up. Could have sworn there was a holdover year for Mularkey. I retract my statement and will spend the rest of the day flogging myself as restitution.
(12-27-2021, 10:17 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I was wrong. Just looked it up. Could have sworn there was a holdover year for Mularkey. I retract my statement and will spend the rest of the day flogging myself as restitution.
I don't think you should go that far. I think they should clean house, hire a GM, and let that person pick the coach who should then hire the assistants. Fire Baalke today and let's get started.
(12-27-2021, 10:25 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2021, 10:17 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I was wrong. Just looked it up. Could have sworn there was a holdover year for Mularkey. I retract my statement and will spend the rest of the day flogging myself as restitution.
I don't think you should go that far. I think they should clean house, hire a GM, and let that person pick the coach who should then hire the assistants. Fire Baalke today and let's get started.
If Khan doesn't fire Baalke and truly clean house I'll sell my season tickets and more to Texas.
Oh...wait...
(12-23-2021, 01:08 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Pass on Wink even though he’s a really good DC.
This off season is about one thing and one thing only…. Trevor’s development. The best way to ensure he develops properly is to have an offensive minded coach so that even with the OC leaves, the continuity is the same.
I'd argue that a good defensive coach to HC promotion is still possible if they are able to bring in a good OC and stay out of their way. Trevor is going to be working much more with the OC/QB coach than the HC on day to day basis, when Trevor is on the sideline the HC is going to be busy watching the D get their stops.
I don't want my HC bogging down in positional coaching or micromanaging the playbook.
(12-27-2021, 11:09 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 01:08 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Pass on Wink even though he’s a really good DC.
This off season is about one thing and one thing only…. Trevor’s development. The best way to ensure he develops properly is to have an offensive minded coach so that even with the OC leaves, the continuity is the same.
I'd argue that a good defensive coach to HC promotion is still possible if they are able to bring in a good OC and stay out of their way. Trevor is going to be working much more with the OC/QB coach than the HC on day to day basis, when Trevor is on the sideline the HC is going to be busy watching the D get their stops.
I don't want my HC bogging down in positional coaching or micromanaging the playbook.
And then if the team has some success that coach becomes a hot name and Trevor gets to start over with a new offensive coaching staff.
No, in the start of his career he needs a head coach that will insure continuity in scheme moving forward.
(12-27-2021, 11:12 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2021, 11:09 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I'd argue that a good defensive coach to HC promotion is still possible if they are able to bring in a good OC and stay out of their way. Trevor is going to be working much more with the OC/QB coach than the HC on day to day basis, when Trevor is on the sideline the HC is going to be busy watching the D get their stops.
I don't want my HC bogging down in positional coaching or micromanaging the playbook.
And then if the team has some success that coach becomes a hot name and Trevor gets to start over with a new offensive coaching staff.
No, in the start of his career he needs a head coach that will insure continuity in scheme moving forward.
....Like the tacks have had to do the past couple of seasons? Lafleur and Smith were OCs promoted up to HC, Henry and Tannehill still appear to be playing just fine. Rodgers didn't turn into Gabbert when Joe Philbin was hired away as his QB coach.
If we have some success to that level, it's probably safe to say that TLaw done developed. At that point you're just relying on an OC that can call a gameplan that is going to work against that week's opponent and less on the player growth side of the equation.
Heck, I look forward to the day when our coaches are a hot commodity!