(12-24-2021, 08:29 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 07:27 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t like talk of Khan making a decision on coaches. My football fantasy is he has hired consultation to help him choose. Otherwise, we’re doomed. He’s a brilliant businessman, but an awful assessor of football staff. Hopefully the Urban Meyer experience has shocked him into the reality that these are not capricious decisions and that continuity can sometimes be detrimental.
Like he did back in 2016?
I think he should probably be talking to a lot of people, and whether it's coaches to get an idea of who they respect as personnel managers or personnel managers to get an idea of who they respect as molders of talent, just be thorough and don't sign a guy just because you like him (is that what happened to bring Urban in?), sign a guy because you've been convinced he has the skill to do the job, then get out of his way.
One way or another Khan is making a choice and trusting someone, whether it's his own hire, or hiring someone to hire someone.
Agreed with both of you. I think he had the right idea with Coughlin. I keep saying he should try again. Give Parcells, Polian and Wolf a call. Gain some insight and views regarding the current climate in the NFL and trajectory of guys that still love the game.
Also, he still has to have strong convictions about the hire. The Meyer hire felt rushed and just made for headlines. Not much thought was put into it. Some of the names out there right now seem like good fits. He just has to make a move.
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Outside of drafting Trevor, the Jags did just about every wrong thing possible in the 2021 off season. That’s pretty incredible to do.
Hopefully it’s the exact opposite in 2022.
(12-24-2021, 08:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of drafting Trevor, the Jags did just about every wrong thing possible in the 2021 off season. That’s pretty incredible to do.
Hopefully it’s the exact opposite in 2022.
It'll be 60/40 or 70/30 IMHO next year depending on the next hires. I say better than 50/50 [in regards to making the right decisions] because there's too many examples from this year for the next staff to learn from.
They're going to need to be aggressive and active in March in free agency. This determines ultimately what they need to accomplish in the draft in April.
Gameplan wise, regardless of the talent added. I still believe offensively that they have to incorporate more of what he did at Clemson to get this kids confidence and rhythm going. Then add the pro level stuff once that starts slowing down.
Hopefully it's announced Baalke is out after the Jets game.
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(12-24-2021, 08:46 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 08:29 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Like he did back in 2016?
I think he should probably be talking to a lot of people, and whether it's coaches to get an idea of who they respect as personnel managers or personnel managers to get an idea of who they respect as molders of talent, just be thorough and don't sign a guy just because you like him (is that what happened to bring Urban in?), sign a guy because you've been convinced he has the skill to do the job, then get out of his way.
One way or another Khan is making a choice and trusting someone, whether it's his own hire, or hiring someone to hire someone.
Agreed with both of you. I think he had the right idea with Coughlin. I keep saying he should try again. Give Parcells, Polian and Wolf a call. Gain some insight and views regarding the current climate in the NFL and trajectory of guys that still love the game.
Also, he still has to have strong convictions about the hire. The Meyer hire felt rushed and just made for headlines. Not much thought was put into it. Some of the names out there right now seem like good fits. He just has to make a move.
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Had Khan asked around about Coughlin, he likely would have received advice that TC's methods were outdated and divisive. It almost got us to the big show in 2017, but quickly collapsed and brought ill repute to the organization that still rings in some corners to this day.
My hopes are he is talking to a lot of people and getting feedback from all directions. The decisions he makes in the next few weeks are going to have long lasting effects on the direction of the team because we'll never get another Trevor Lawrence.
(12-24-2021, 09:02 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 08:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of drafting Trevor, the Jags did just about every wrong thing possible in the 2021 off season. That’s pretty incredible to do.
Hopefully it’s the exact opposite in 2022.
It'll be 60/40 or 70/30 IMHO next year depending on the next hires. I say better than 50/50 [in regards to making the right decisions] because there's too many examples from this year for the next staff to learn from.
They're going to need to be aggressive and active in March in free agency. This determines ultimately what they need to accomplish in the draft in April.
Gameplan wise, regardless of the talent added. I still believe offensively that they have to incorporate more of what he did at Clemson to get this kids confidence and rhythm going. Then add the pro level stuff once that starts slowing down.
Hopefully it's announced Baalke is out after the Jets game.
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Firing Baalke is the
ONLY way to move forward, successfully.
In my opinion baalke was the biggest mistake we made in the off season, even bigger than Meyer!
It definitely starts with the GM, I think we need a young forward thinking GM who is aggressive. He will hopefully attract/hire a likeminded HC.
I actually really like Cullen so I wouldn’t mind if he stayed. Everyone else can go.
Who that Young Aggressive HC would be I am not sure. I like Daboll at the moment maybe Moore.
(12-24-2021, 10:15 AM)BristolianJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion baalke was the biggest mistake we made in the off season, even bigger than Meyer!
It definitely starts with the GM, I think we need a young forward thinking GM who is aggressive. He will hopefully attract/hire a likeminded HC.
I actually really like Cullen so I wouldn’t mind if he stayed. Everyone else can go.
Who that Young Aggressive HC would be I am not sure. I like Daboll at the moment maybe Moore.
Baalke was just a figurehead, the actual GM was Meyer, which is part of why the moves Khan made were so mind bogglingly stupid. No real GM was going to come to Jax to be part of the Meyer regime, so they had to just keep Baalke.
I agree, though, that he has to go.
(12-24-2021, 10:15 AM)BristolianJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion baalke was the biggest mistake we made in the off season, even bigger than Meyer!
It definitely starts with the GM, I think we need a young forward thinking GM who is aggressive. He will hopefully attract/hire a likeminded HC.
I actually really like Cullen so I wouldn’t mind if he stayed. Everyone else can go.
Who that Young Aggressive HC would be I am not sure. I like Daboll at the moment maybe Moore.
Yeah, Baalke hasn't done anything worthy of keeping him around, but the Meyer hire is just as much on Khan as it is Baalke, and Meyer had ultimate control over Baalke and personnel decisions, so...
We can blame him for whatever role he had in the mismanagement of roster evaluation, free agency, draft selections and other transactions, but it ultimately came down to Meyer.
Hard to know exactly how many moves Meyer signed off on that were basically all Baalke, how many were all Meyer with Baalke just facilitating, and how many were collaborative in some way.
The one thing we DO know with certainty is that nearly every personnel decision made was a bad one.
(12-24-2021, 11:03 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 10:15 AM)BristolianJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion baalke was the biggest mistake we made in the off season, even bigger than Meyer!
It definitely starts with the GM, I think we need a young forward thinking GM who is aggressive. He will hopefully attract/hire a likeminded HC.
I actually really like Cullen so I wouldn’t mind if he stayed. Everyone else can go.
Who that Young Aggressive HC would be I am not sure. I like Daboll at the moment maybe Moore.
Yeah, Baalke hasn't done anything worthy of keeping him around, but the Meyer hire is just as much on Khan as it is Baalke, and Meyer had ultimate control over Baalke and personnel decisions, so...
We can blame him for whatever role he had in the mismanagement of roster evaluation, free agency, draft selections and other transactions, but it ultimately came down to Meyer.
Hard to know exactly how many moves Meyer signed off on that were basically all Baalke, how many were all Meyer with Baalke just facilitating, and how many were collaborative in some way.
The one thing we DO know with certainty is that nearly every personnel decision made was a bad one.
I'm sure Baalke is telling Khan that every bad decision was made by Meyer, and every good decision was made by Baalke.
(12-24-2021, 11:08 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 11:03 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, Baalke hasn't done anything worthy of keeping him around, but the Meyer hire is just as much on Khan as it is Baalke, and Meyer had ultimate control over Baalke and personnel decisions, so...
We can blame him for whatever role he had in the mismanagement of roster evaluation, free agency, draft selections and other transactions, but it ultimately came down to Meyer.
Hard to know exactly how many moves Meyer signed off on that were basically all Baalke, how many were all Meyer with Baalke just facilitating, and how many were collaborative in some way.
The one thing we DO know with certainty is that nearly every personnel decision made was a bad one.
I'm sure Baalke is telling Khan that every bad decision was made by Meyer, and every good decision was made by Baalke.
Agreed.
The only hope we have is that Khan did keep his finger on the pulse of this stuff throughout the season as he indicated he would following the Coughlin debacle.
Then perhaps he'll have some insight on at least some of the bad decisions if he did, and hopefully he's grown wise enough to see through some finger pointing by his hires by now. He's sure to have lived through a bunch of it at this point.
(12-24-2021, 08:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of drafting Trevor, the Jags did just about every wrong thing possible in the 2021 off season. That’s pretty incredible to do.
Hopefully it’s the exact opposite in 2022.
The draft could’ve been better but it wasn’t bad actually. Aside from Trevor, if Campbell, Cisco and Little turn into solid starters, it was a good draft.
(12-24-2021, 11:35 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 08:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of drafting Trevor, the Jags did just about every wrong thing possible in the 2021 off season. That’s pretty incredible to do.
Hopefully it’s the exact opposite in 2022.
The draft could’ve been better but it wasn’t bad actually. Aside from Trevor, if Campbell, Cisco and Little turn into solid starters, it was a good draft.
True, but those are big ifs.
- Campbell looks well on his way, but we have to hope his next coordinator (if it changes) will rely on a zone heavy scheme.
- Little shows consistently bad technique and counting on him to start at either tackle s[pot next year and perform solid or better is a crapshoot right now.
- Cisco is probably one of the better safeties on the team, but we really can't be certain, maybe the next few weeks tell us more
- Both 4th rounders are question marks. One looks not quite ready to handle NFL guards and centers, the other looks like a long term project to develop as a
rotational pass rusher
- Not to mention Etienne and his injury - jury's still out and fingers are crossed
(12-24-2021, 11:58 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 11:35 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]The draft could’ve been better but it wasn’t bad actually. Aside from Trevor, if Campbell, Cisco and Little turn into solid starters, it was a good draft.
True, but those are big ifs.
- Campbell looks well on his way, but we have to hope his next coordinator (if it changes) will rely on a zone heavy scheme.
- Little shows consistently bad technique and counting on him to start at either tackle s[pot next year and perform solid or better is a crapshoot right now.
- Cisco is probably one of the better safeties on the team, but we really can't be certain, maybe the next few weeks tell us more
- Both 4th rounders are question marks. One looks not quite ready to handle NFL guards and centers, the other looks like a long term project to develop as a
rotational pass rusher
- Not to mention Etienne and his injury - jury's still out and fingers are crossed
Little has a tendency to give up on edge rushes sometimes, and I mean
give up. It's almost like he's afraid of incurring a penalty for holding, or something. He's so linear. Instead of curling protection to form his side of the pocket, he slides left a few steps and just stops to let the rusher go around. It's maddening to watch.
If it's true that Balke and Cullen were face to face because Cullen wanted Judon but Balke didn't, Balke has to go. I want him gone regardless but that should be the deal breaker
When watching Little in both games, I think he gets better as the game goes on. Probably just rust, I really wish we would start him these next 3 games
(12-23-2021, 03:30 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2021, 02:38 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Harris wasn't awful. He was 54-46 as GM with the Jaguars. They were a wildcard team in 2 of his 6 years, but never a division winner and only 1 playoff victory during that span. His teams typically had a good running games and defenses. He just made some major blunders in terms of the passing game. He took a bust in Leftwich at #7 overall. This was compounded by the fact that it could be considered an unforced error. Although getting up there in age, the team still had Brunell who was effective. Brunell continued to have a great year the following year when traded to another team. Interestingly enough, Brunell actually ended up retiring only one season earlier than Leftwich. In addition to Brunell, the team also had David Garrard on the roster when drafting Leftwhich. Leftwich ended up getting cut in favor of Garrard. Harris also followed up by trying to give Leftwich weapons by taking a wide receiver in the first round in the next two years. However, he ended up with the extremely disappointing Reggie Williams and Matt Jones. It should also be noted that because Harris drafted Leftwich, he passed up the opportunity to take Ben Roethlisberger the year following Leftwich. He did make some nice picks including MJD, Rashean Mathis and Daryl Smith. Ultimately, the kiss of death for Harris was 2008 where the team had acquired a bunch of extra picks, but used most of them to trade up for defensive ends in the first and second round. Both of them were busts. That draft remains the worst in Jaguars history. Again, overall, he was solid. Some hits and some misses. He tended to do well in the second round, but not the first. He's clearly better than what we've had since him, but also not someone that I would want to rehire.
The Shack years essentially brought the Jaguars to where we are now. The core of success on the Jaguars during the 2005-2007 time-frame was what Coughlin left the team with (Fred, Stroud, Henderson) along with a few decent pickups during Shack's time. Shack's drafting was so bad that by the time MJD was spent the team was pretty barren, and everyone that's followed since has kept on taking terrible players. Gene Smith essentially was just another Shack, a needs drafter that couldn't evaluate QBs and who was throwing good draft picks after bad ones. Caldwell actually did do a decent job of amassing some talent, but he couldn't evaluate QBs, either.
Right now we got lucky that Trevor was a blindingly obvious pick, but he won't work out if the team can't get someone in the building that understands draft value, either.
I maintain my original position that James Harris was a mixed bag as GM. It wasn't all bad. A couple of years ago, the media came up with a list of the top 25 Jaguars players of all time. 3 out of the top 10 were Harris draft picks with another 3 of his draft picks making the list. He also had a free agent signing make the list. That's 7 contributions to our 25 best players in six years as GM. This doesn't include Reggie Nelson who went on to have success with the Bengals including multiple pro-bowls. He drafted at least 4 players that went to the pro-bowl. If you are comparing him to someone like Caldwell, keep in mind that with an overall winning record, Harris's average draft position was more around the middle of the round. Caldwell was picking in the top ten in 7 out of his 8 drafts and picked in the top five for each of his first 5 years. Harris never picked in the top five and entered only two drafts with a pick even in the top ten. While it is true that he inherited a couple of good players from Coughlin, that's nothing unusual. Rarely is there zero talent on a team. Even the 2022 Jaguar's coach will inherit Lawrence, Robinson, Allen and others. Good GM's keep what is good and fix what is bad. I find it disingenuous to give Coughlin credit for Harris's winning record given that he inherited a team from Coughlin that had a losing record for three straight years. I also find the argument extremely weak that Harris is to blame for our current troubles. First, he didn't leave the cubbard completely bare. If nothing else, he left 8 players who would either have pro-bowls in their career or would be considered among the Jaguars 25 best players of all time. Second, even if he didn't, Harris drafts were between 13 and 19 years ago. Even if he had blown them, we had plenty of time to recover. How many players from 13 to 19 years ago would you expect to still be playing at a high level today? That's nonsense.
As for Gene Smith, he was clearly worse than Harris. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe his only pro-bowl draft pick is the punter that he took in the early third round. He has ZERO players among the Jaguars top 25 list. Again, ZERO. Who would even be a consideration? Put aside where they were drafted and ask the question about who were the three best players he drafted? I can't come up with 3 quality players. Alualu just because of longevity? Maybe Terrance Knighton? Eugene Monroe? He's a top 10 pick that we ended up trading for a 4th and 5th rounder. Gene Smith's drafting was beyond pathetic. There's no comparison.
As for Caldwell, I don't feel that I need to explain his failures. It's been said to death on this board. Any Jaguars fan without his eyes closed should be able to see it.
Baalke's history in San Francisco is enough for me to want to break away cleanly after this Sunday's game.
From 2011 - 2016 he had maybe two, three notable draft picks between Aldon Smith, the guy who took a knee and that other defensive lineman.
All of those guys with the exception of Buckner didn't last long in the NFL. He never had any success on the offensive side of the football.
Could not draft a WR to save his life. The team has exceedingly improved with Lynch and Shanahan involved and that was after Baalke ruined it on his way out with Harbaugh.
He has to go.
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(12-24-2021, 08:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of drafting Trevor, the Jags did just about every wrong thing possible in the 2021 off season. That’s pretty incredible to do.
Hopefully it’s the exact opposite in 2022.
Honestly after taking a look at this past seasons free agents and what they were paid.. I think it might have been a good thing that we saved our cap for this offseason. A lot of the bigger signings this past year haven't looked all that great. May have been upgrades for sure but also might have kept us from being able to get better players this upcoming march. Now I will say tho, if we don't land some bigger tier FA's this year I think somethings off.. we aren't going anywhere without free agency this season theres too many holes on offense.
(12-25-2021, 10:11 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 08:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of drafting Trevor, the Jags did just about every wrong thing possible in the 2021 off season. That’s pretty incredible to do.
Hopefully it’s the exact opposite in 2022.
Honestly after taking a look at this past seasons free agents and what they were paid.. I think it might have been a good thing that we saved our cap for this offseason. A lot of the bigger signings this past year haven't looked all that great. May have been upgrades for sure but also might have kept us from being able to get better players this upcoming march. Now I will say tho, if we don't land some bigger tier FA's this year I think somethings off.. we aren't going anywhere without free agency this season theres too many holes on offense.
Yeah, Trent Williams and Trey Hendrickson look awful
.gif "Laughing")
Also, Hunter Henry has 9 TDs and 471 yards playing with a rookie. Thank god we didn't bring that scrub to help Trevor.
(12-25-2021, 10:11 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2021, 08:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of drafting Trevor, the Jags did just about every wrong thing possible in the 2021 off season. That’s pretty incredible to do.
Hopefully it’s the exact opposite in 2022.
Honestly after taking a look at this past seasons free agents and what they were paid.. I think it might have been a good thing that we saved our cap for this offseason. A lot of the bigger signings this past year haven't looked all that great. May have been upgrades for sure but also might have kept us from being able to get better players this upcoming march. Now I will say tho, if we don't land some bigger tier FA's this year I think somethings off.. we aren't going anywhere without free agency this season theres too many holes on offense.
There were quality FAs to be had.
Our fancy new recruiter failed to land any but a return specialist and a solid CB.
Nothing to aid his rookie QB in terms of protection or receiving help - which was infuriatingly stupid.
Instead he traded off a receiving TE and replaced him with an absolutely maddening publicity stunt who'd already failed in the NFL - and he failed again unsurprisingly.
2021 Jags free agency gets a big fat F on the report card.
(12-25-2021, 10:18 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2021, 10:11 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly after taking a look at this past seasons free agents and what they were paid.. I think it might have been a good thing that we saved our cap for this offseason. A lot of the bigger signings this past year haven't looked all that great. May have been upgrades for sure but also might have kept us from being able to get better players this upcoming march. Now I will say tho, if we don't land some bigger tier FA's this year I think somethings off.. we aren't going anywhere without free agency this season theres too many holes on offense.
Yeah, Trent Williams and Trey Hendrickson look awful
Also, Hunter Henry has 9 TDs and 471 yards playing with a rookie. Thank god we didn't bring that scrub to help Trevor.
I didn't say they all looked bad. Trent Williams is a 2-3 year fix at best tho and is getting paid an insane amount of money. I do agree on the tight ends but also don't think they would be doing very well here anyway..