(10-23-2023, 04:55 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, but do you agree that Trevor is probably around 10th among quarterbacks - right now?
What's the point?
You can gather stats form 2 or 3 categories that show TL as 3rd.
A few different categories show him 13th.
Here's one that has him 7th behind Goff (and Mahomes is 6th.)
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-7-anal...e-top-spot
For me - it's pretty simple. He can make throws that a few of the guys in most top ten lists can't make. That is rare.It's not properly fine tuned yet, but we see it improving. He's got a few things working against him getting to exercise his best abilities freely and continue growing right now. That won't last forever.
I'm just gonna enjoy watching him continue to get better and better while everyone argues whether he's top ten, top five, generational, elite, whatever.
It will be obvious soon enough and the doubters will run out of excuses eventually.
Why this obsession with his exact ranking? He good.
When is the last time we could say we had an adequate QB, let alone one in the “best” discussion? Garrard? Loved him but he was barely close to the top half of league and couldn’t fire the extra cylinder where he carried a mediocre roster to a victory (and hate how his career ended here. With the top 10 defense we had in 2011 he would have been a perfect fit).
Be grateful. I don’t care if he’s 4th, 6th, etc.
He’s in the top echelon and we should count our lucky stars. This is what we have dreamed of for years
You must have missed the earlier post that Trevor isn't elite and the reactions to that. It looks like that's an insult and I can't undertand it. When was the last time this team had a Top-10 QB? It's been a while, hasn't it?
You mention a few things holding him back yourself. This seems mostly like confusion about the difference between now and in the likely future.
(10-23-2023, 05:30 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Why this obsession with his exact ranking? He good.
When is the last time we could say we had an adequate QB, let alone one in the “best” discussion? Garrard? Loved him but he was barely close to the top half of league and couldn’t fire the extra cylinder where he carried a mediocre roster to a victory (and hate how his career ended here. With the top 10 defense we had in 2011 he would have been a perfect fit).
Be grateful. I don’t care if he’s 4th, 6th, etc.
He’s in the top echelon and we should count our lucky stars. This is what we have dreamed of for years
Yes, exactly. He's possibly the best QB this team has had but let's be realistic about where he is - now. There are still things that is holding him back regardless of whether caused by the offensive line or playcaling.
(10-23-2023, 05:37 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]You must have missed the earlier post that Trevor isn't elite and the reactions to that. It looks like that's an insult and I can't undertand it. When was the last time this team had a Top-10 QB? It's been a while, hasn't it?
You mention a few things holding him back yourself. This seems mostly like confusion about the difference between now and in the likely future.
(10-23-2023, 05:30 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Why this obsession with his exact ranking? He good.
When is the last time we could say we had an adequate QB, let alone one in the “best” discussion? Garrard? Loved him but he was barely close to the top half of league and couldn’t fire the extra cylinder where he carried a mediocre roster to a victory (and hate how his career ended here. With the top 10 defense we had in 2011 he would have been a perfect fit).
Be grateful. I don’t care if he’s 4th, 6th, etc.
He’s in the top echelon and we should count our lucky stars. This is what we have dreamed of for years
Yes, exactly. He's possibly the best QB this team has had but let's be realistic about where he is - now. There are still things that is holding him back regardless of whether caused by the offensive line or playcaling.
You're going to have to get your head around the fact that many fans are not going to sit here and rank the QB of their favorite team behind someone they fully expect him to outperform for many seasons to come.
Personally - I don't give a flying [BLEEP] if you rank him 11th or 3rd.
I know he's taking this squad to the post season this year. I'm good.
(10-23-2023, 05:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 05:37 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]You must have missed the earlier post that Trevor isn't elite and the reactions to that. It looks like that's an insult and I can't undertand it. When was the last time this team had a Top-10 QB? It's been a while, hasn't it?
You mention a few things holding him back yourself. This seems mostly like confusion about the difference between now and in the likely future.
Yes, exactly. He's possibly the best QB this team has had but let's be realistic about where he is - now. There are still things that is holding him back regardless of whether caused by the offensive line or playcaling.
You're going to have to get your head around the fact that many fans are not going to sit here and rank the QB of their favorite team behind someone they fully expect him to outperform for many seasons to come.
Personally - I don't give a flying [BLEEP] if you rank him 11th or 3rd.
I know he's taking this squad to the post season this year. I'm good.
Pretty much this. Am I protective of Lawrence? Hell yeah I am. I've sat through so many QB's hoping they can fix X and Y and maybe become an OK player. Lawrence is the best QB I've ever seen for the Jags. We nearly ruined him his rookie year but its not a surprise we've gone from #1 pick 2 years in a row to a playoff contender since we drafted him.
He's young, he's invested in the franchise and fanbase and looks like he'll only get better. I know how good he is and is going to be.
How many teams would trade their QB for him straight up today? Almost all of them. More than would for Herbert, Tua, Hurts, Cousins or any of this year's rookie cliass. Likely it's Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and that's about it.
(10-23-2023, 07:09 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]How many teams would trade their QB for him straight up today? Almost all of them. More than would for Herbert, Tua, Hurts, Cousins or any of this year's rookie cliass. Likely it's Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and that's about it.
I think he's better than Tua but I doubt they'd trade Tua right now, he's been pretty good (tho it's probably more to do with his weapons than him)
(10-23-2023, 06:08 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 05:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You're going to have to get your head around the fact that many fans are not going to sit here and rank the QB of their favorite team behind someone they fully expect him to outperform for many seasons to come.
Personally - I don't give a flying [BLEEP] if you rank him 11th or 3rd.
I know he's taking this squad to the post season this year. I'm good.
Pretty much this. Am I protective of Lawrence? Hell yeah I am. I've sat through so many QB's hoping they can fix X and Y and maybe become an OK player. Lawrence is the best QB I've ever seen for the Jags. We nearly ruined him his rookie year but its not a surprise we've gone from #1 pick 2 years in a row to a playoff contender since we drafted him.
He's young, he's invested in the franchise and fanbase and looks like he'll only get better. I know how good he is and is going to be.
And he's physically tough. One of the most desirable characteristics of a franchise QB.
(10-23-2023, 08:48 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 06:08 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty much this. Am I protective of Lawrence? Hell yeah I am. I've sat through so many QB's hoping they can fix X and Y and maybe become an OK player. Lawrence is the best QB I've ever seen for the Jags. We nearly ruined him his rookie year but its not a surprise we've gone from #1 pick 2 years in a row to a playoff contender since we drafted him.
He's young, he's invested in the franchise and fanbase and looks like he'll only get better. I know how good he is and is going to be.
And he's physically tough. One of the most desirable characteristics of a franchise QB.
I like Tl's response to all this. I believe TL tweeted this out after he heard the comments from the Thursday Night analyst.
#announcers you keep your opinions and we will keep finding a way.
(10-23-2023, 08:48 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 06:08 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty much this. Am I protective of Lawrence? Hell yeah I am. I've sat through so many QB's hoping they can fix X and Y and maybe become an OK player. Lawrence is the best QB I've ever seen for the Jags. We nearly ruined him his rookie year but its not a surprise we've gone from #1 pick 2 years in a row to a playoff contender since we drafted him.
He's young, he's invested in the franchise and fanbase and looks like he'll only get better. I know how good he is and is going to be.
And he's physically tough. One of the most desirable characteristics of a franchise QB.
Your absolutely right. He gets hit an awful lot and will take the hit to give a WR extra time. You see some QB's take a couple of hits and are struggling or start panicking but not with Lawrence. You could see how much he wanted to play on Thursday. That's a leader.
I've also got to say he's mentally strong. With the success he had at high school level and college, you could maybe expect him to struggle when adversity strikes. I remember saying in that rookie year that I was impressed how he just kept going back out there and trying to make the next drive work even with how bad everything around him was.
Then look at the Chargers game in the playoffs. Most QB's would crumbles, most QB's couldn't dig themselves out of that hole but he was damn near perfect 2nd half and was a big reason we came back.
IMO Trevor is not playing great but not bad either, doing enough and making some good plays here and there. He was playing better late last year and I am hoping that is the case again this year.
Not worried though, now that I've seen him play good I expect him to at least be top 5 consistently in the future. We gotta remember the guy is still young and had a terrible HC in his first year... oh yeah and the O-line wasn't good in the first few games.
(10-23-2023, 09:11 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 08:48 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]And he's physically tough. One of the most desirable characteristics of a franchise QB.
Your absolutely right. He gets hit an awful lot and will take the hit to give a WR extra time. You see some QB's take a couple of hits and are struggling or start panicking but not with Lawrence. You could see how much he wanted to play on Thursday. That's a leader.
I've also got to say he's mentally strong. With the success he had at high school level and college, you could maybe expect him to struggle when adversity strikes. I remember saying in that rookie year that I was impressed how he just kept going back out there and trying to make the next drive work even with how bad everything around him was.
Then look at the Chargers game in the playoffs. Most QB's would crumbles, most QB's couldn't dig themselves out of that hole but he was damn near perfect 2nd half and was a big reason we came back.
He's definitely tough all around. If the O line could hold it together like they did against the Ain'ts, his confidence and percentages would rise.
(10-23-2023, 09:21 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]IMO Trevor is not playing great but not bad either, doing enough and making some good plays here and there. He was playing better late last year and I am hoping that is the case again this year.
Not worried though, now that I've seen him play good I expect him to at least be top 5 consistently in the future. We gotta remember the guy is still young and had a terrible HC in his first year... oh yeah and the O-line wasn't good in the first few games.
Our receivers also led the league in drops going into the week 6 game. Not sure if they're still 1st or not now, but they're definitely still towards the top of the league if they aren't #1 anymore.
(10-23-2023, 09:21 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]IMO Trevor is not playing great but not bad either, doing enough and making some good plays here and there. He was playing better late last year and I am hoping that is the case again this year.
Not worried though, now that I've seen him play good I expect him to at least be top 5 consistently in the future. We gotta remember the guy is still young and had a terrible HC in his first year... oh yeah and the O-line wasn't good in the first few games.
He has his creases, for sure. His development was suspended for a year. Between the trainwreck he was drafted into, and the shaky protection up front now, he has some hills to climb still.
(10-23-2023, 09:29 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 09:11 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Your absolutely right. He gets hit an awful lot and will take the hit to give a WR extra time. You see some QB's take a couple of hits and are struggling or start panicking but not with Lawrence. You could see how much he wanted to play on Thursday. That's a leader.
I've also got to say he's mentally strong. With the success he had at high school level and college, you could maybe expect him to struggle when adversity strikes. I remember saying in that rookie year that I was impressed how he just kept going back out there and trying to make the next drive work even with how bad everything around him was.
Then look at the Chargers game in the playoffs. Most QB's would crumbles, most QB's couldn't dig themselves out of that hole but he was damn near perfect 2nd half and was a big reason we came back.
He's definitely tough all around. If the O line could hold it together like they did against the Ain'ts, his confidence and percentages would rise.
Absolutely right again. So many plays are broken before they even develop and Lawrence has to adapt or scramble to try and make something work. That has a huge effect on his stats.
And Etienne is playing great right now. 3 games in a row with 2 TD's. If we are scoring TD's with the run game it doesn't mean that Lawrence can't.
(10-23-2023, 12:33 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 10:25 AM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]/sarcasm on
Uh, sorry sweetie, but he doesn't have 4 touchdown games every week, he isn't elite. Game manager at best.
/sarcasm off
I mean, he's not elite(yet). Trev is efficient, moves the ball, let's the run game carry the offense. He can be a good QB, it's OK, game manager should not be a pejorative. There's only 3-5 truly elite QBs in this league and he's just not one of them right now. I'd put him somewhere between top 10-12, still a good QB, but when I think of truly great QBs right now he's just not the name I would blurt out. Let's remember this guy was compared to the likes of Andrew Luck(40 TDS in year 3 with a terribad team he was drafted to), a "generational talent", in which if you asked me TL has not lived up to those metrics at the pro level yet. The good news is it's only year 2 1/2, still plenty of time left to elevate his game this season.
Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Lamar, Purdy, and Tua I would argue are flat out better, Herbert is debatable but he seems to not have a clutch bone in his body... You also can't dismiss C.J. Stroud, he's really showing some promise/growth and I would argue is having a better season than TL so far. I would even argue guys like Goff and Cousins are better right now, but they're much older so bid deal. IMO Trevor is not a guy to carry a team when the defense is having a bad day and the run game is shut down. Guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow have proven they can. When he can carry a team, I will call him elite with a giant smile on my face. He's just not there yet.
TLDR - It's still tremendous to have a top 10-12 QB in the NFL, I get we all love the team and definitely have biases when we rate our own guys, but the statistics don't lie. Trev's a slightly above average QB right now AND THAT IS OKAY! We can win titles with that, given the Jags run game and defense are playing well.
Yea Purdy is definitely "flat out better" than Lawrence is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
(10-23-2023, 11:12 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 12:33 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, he's not elite(yet). Trev is efficient, moves the ball, let's the run game carry the offense. He can be a good QB, it's OK, game manager should not be a pejorative. There's only 3-5 truly elite QBs in this league and he's just not one of them right now. I'd put him somewhere between top 10-12, still a good QB, but when I think of truly great QBs right now he's just not the name I would blurt out. Let's remember this guy was compared to the likes of Andrew Luck(40 TDS in year 3 with a terribad team he was drafted to), a "generational talent", in which if you asked me TL has not lived up to those metrics at the pro level yet. The good news is it's only year 2 1/2, still plenty of time left to elevate his game this season.
Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Lamar, Purdy, and Tua I would argue are flat out better, Herbert is debatable but he seems to not have a clutch bone in his body... You also can't dismiss C.J. Stroud, he's really showing some promise/growth and I would argue is having a better season than TL so far. I would even argue guys like Goff and Cousins are better right now, but they're much older so bid deal. IMO Trevor is not a guy to carry a team when the defense is having a bad day and the run game is shut down. Guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow have proven they can. When he can carry a team, I will call him elite with a giant smile on my face. He's just not there yet.
TLDR - It's still tremendous to have a top 10-12 QB in the NFL, I get we all love the team and definitely have biases when we rate our own guys, but the statistics don't lie. Trev's a slightly above average QB right now AND THAT IS OKAY! We can win titles with that, given the Jags run game and defense are playing well.
Yea Purdy is definitely "flat out better" than Lawrence is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I just don’t understand how people can evaluate QB play and come to the conclusion that Purdy is better than Trevor.
Purdy is a system QB.
(10-24-2023, 07:33 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 11:12 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea Purdy is definitely "flat out better" than Lawrence is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I just don’t understand how people can evaluate QB play and come to the conclusion that Purdy is better than Trevor.
Purdy is a system QB.
He's another Chad Pennington sort. He seems smart and can manage the game, but he doesn't have the ability level of the true top tier guys like Trevor.
(10-24-2023, 07:33 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2023, 11:12 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea Purdy is definitely "flat out better" than Lawrence is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I just don’t understand how people can evaluate QB play and come to the conclusion that Purdy is better than Trevor.
Purdy is a system QB.
Because people don't know what they're watching/looking at lol.
But that dude has been negative about Lawrence from the jump. He is/was a big time Minshew fan and since Lawrence all but booted Minshew outta town, it has left a bad taste in his mouth when it comes to anything Lawrence related.