(12-18-2023, 11:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 11:27 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't think anyone is saying that, but the idea that he's not going to get a second contract here is silly. He's a franchise guy and he'll likely play all his meaningful years here. If he were to go to the Market he would easily set the record for largest QB deal in history in a bidding war like none we've seen before.
That guy is asking who can do better, pretty much implying no one can.
Is Trevor elite? no
Does Trevor suck? no
is he good enough to win a SB? yes but he needs a really good team around him
Is he a special QB? imo no
I don't think he needs a really good team, but every quarterback needs at least an average line to work with. The Jags line is a bottom 5 unit and that's too much for almost anyone to overcome IMO. I don't think if you put any of the other good QBs in this League here they have any more success. They likely don't do the fumble thing the same way, but the QB can't run routes or block Chris Jones no matter who he is.
(12-18-2023, 11:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 11:27 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't think anyone is saying that, but the idea that he's not going to get a second contract here is silly. He's a franchise guy and he'll likely play all his meaningful years here. If he were to go to the Market he would easily set the record for largest QB deal in history in a bidding war like none we've seen before.
That guy is asking who can do better, pretty much implying no one can.
Is Trevor elite? no
Does Trevor suck? no
is he good enough to win a SB? yes but he needs a really good team around him
Is he a special QB? imo no
No I'm asking you to actually prove your point instead of just be sarcastic and making general statements. I never said Lawrence has been playing elite I've said the exact opposite. If you're going to make an argument that Lawrence is the reason we're losing and its on him the you have to back that statement up.
If he is what you claim then proving someone else could do better in this situation should be easy.
(12-18-2023, 01:01 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 11:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]That guy is asking who can do better, pretty much implying no one can.
Is Trevor elite? no
Does Trevor suck? no
is he good enough to win a SB? yes but he needs a really good team around him
Is he a special QB? imo no
I don't think he needs a really good team, but every quarterback needs at least an average line to work with. The Jags line is a bottom 5 unit and that's too much for almost anyone to overcome IMO. I don't think if you put any of the other good QBs in this League here they have any more success. They likely don't do the fumble thing the same way, but the QB can't run routes or block Chris Jones no matter who he is.
I agree with most of this. One thing that was interesting to watch last night was the way Lamar moved in the pocket and his awareness of where his blockers were. He obviously possesses a huge threat to pull up and run which has a lot to do with it. But he would move in the pocket in a way that would lead any defender who had shed a block, directly back into the blocker. He did this multiple times(sometimes on the same play). To me, him being able to do that and keep his eyes down field while maintaining the threat of running are his best attributes.
(12-18-2023, 10:36 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 03:15 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Mahomes 3,700 Yds, 25TDs, 13 Ints
Lawrence 3,500 Yds, 22TDs, 10 Ints
Man that's a huge difference right there. You really think Mahomes has a worse situation then Lawrence does right now.
Where did you get this stats? I am seeing:
Trevor 18TDs and 10 ints
He has a counting his rushing tds
(12-18-2023, 11:24 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 11:21 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Which QB would play better than Lawrence in this situation?
NO ONE. Trevor is the best QB of all time, HoF!!! look at the numbers! 4 rushing TDs, he is the GOAT!!!!
But dude he also has 18 passing tds in 14 games. Obvious goat
(12-18-2023, 11:27 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I think the upside is you have the chance to lock him up on a bit of a discount.
It is still a gamble. He hasn't sold many that he will be a sb winning QB. He has the potential but it's just that
iHaunting raven I seem to recall you bashing me for critiques I had of Trevor, you're not allowed to change your mind now that's forbidden sir.
(12-18-2023, 01:34 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 10:36 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Where did you get this stats? I am seeing:
Trevor 18TDs and 10 ints
He has a counting his rushing tds
(12-18-2023, 11:24 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]NO ONE. Trevor is the best QB of all time, HoF!!! look at the numbers! 4 rushing TDs, he is the GOAT!!!!
But dude he also has 18 passing tds in 14 games. Obvious goat
(12-18-2023, 11:27 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I think the upside is you have the chance to lock him up on a bit of a discount.
It is still a gamble. He hasn't sold many that he will be a sb winning QB. He has the potential but it's just that
Here's the only stat that should ultimately matter:
From 2018 - 2020: 7 & 36
From 2021 - Current: 20 & 28, 1 Play Off Win, 1 Division Title,
This is a team that, from 2010, when they went 8 - 8, they had not produced a single winning season until 2017, and after they had the brief moment in the sun, and got one game away from the Superbowl? That's what happened above. They produced a 7 & 36 record from 2018 - 2020.
They're now in the process of still trying to grow, develop and learn. It wasn't an overnight fix, it was just an overnight sensation last year for a few weeks and the expectations were high going into this year. They still are in my opinion.
Baby steps. Let's get away from this Superbowl talking nonsense, and elitism nonsense. This franchise is just now learning how to walk tall again, they're going to trip themselves up from time to time but it's obvious where the weaknesses are on this football team.
*Hint* It's not the QB every week costing this team losses.
(12-18-2023, 01:47 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]iHaunting raven I seem to recall you bashing me for critiques I had of Trevor, you're not allowed to change your mind now that's forbidden sir.
This is a thread about the Jags quarterback, not your bruised ego. Don't make it personal. We've been down that road too many times already.
On topic:
Trevor Lawrence threw for 264 yards and one TD.
He threw at least 5 ugly passes by my casual count without rewatching and he had an inexplicable fumble just trying to tuck the football.
Not good.
The yardage cited above does reveal that other culprits were at work keeping the Jags off the scoreboard as well.
TL needs to be much better than his mistake riddled showing last night - but all the stupid mistakes around him need to go away as well or we'll be back here every week pointing fingers.
(12-18-2023, 11:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 11:27 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't think anyone is saying that, but the idea that he's not going to get a second contract here is silly. He's a franchise guy and he'll likely play all his meaningful years here. If he were to go to the Market he would easily set the record for largest QB deal in history in a bidding war like none we've seen before.
That guy is asking who can do better, pretty much implying no one can.
Is Trevor elite? no
Does Trevor suck? no
is he good enough to win a SB? yes but he needs a really good team around him
Is he a special QB? imo no
This year, he is who the stats say he is: slightly above middle of the pack.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-...op-10/amp/
(12-18-2023, 01:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 01:47 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]iHaunting raven I seem to recall you bashing me for critiques I had of Trevor, you're not allowed to change your mind now that's forbidden sir.
This is a thread about the Jags quarterback, not your bruised ego. Don't make it personal. We've been down that road too many times already.
On topic:
Trevor Lawrence threw for 264 yards and one TD.
He threw at least 5 ugly passes by my casual count without rewatching and he had an inexplicable fumble just trying to tuck the football.
Not good.
The yardage cited above does reveal that other culprits were at work keeping the Jags off the scoreboard as well.
TL needs to be much better than his mistake riddled showing last night - but all the stupid mistakes around him need to go away as well or we'll be back here every week pointing fingers.
The only thing brusied is my hope in this team at the moment. Everything else was fully accurate and has continued to play out as such. But go off.
18 TD passes
5 Rushing TDs
10 interceptions
10 fumbles.
Or 22-20 overall.
This is not exactly proving anything I said untrue, if anything he's worse this year than last. Don't think it's all his fault tho, but you can't blame anyone for him dropping the ball without contact.
(12-18-2023, 01:34 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 10:36 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Where did you get this stats? I am seeing:
Trevor 18TDs and 10 ints
He has a counting his rushing tds
(12-18-2023, 11:24 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]NO ONE. Trevor is the best QB of all time, HoF!!! look at the numbers! 4 rushing TDs, he is the GOAT!!!!
But dude he also has 18 passing tds in 14 games. Obvious goat
(12-18-2023, 11:27 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I think the upside is you have the chance to lock him up on a bit of a discount.
It is still a gamble. He hasn't sold many that he will be a sb winning QB. He has the potential but it's just that
Please show me where I said he is elite.
Love it.
People jumped ship on Lawrence last year and people are doing it again.
I’ll take all the Trevor stock.
He’s not perfect but it’s year 3. YEAR 3. He has taken this team from rock bottom to a potential playoff team in back to back years.
A few things that get lost in the shuffle include the fact that Ridley was essentially a replacement for Marvin Jones Jr. Now, this should be a noteable improvement and it is from a talent standpoint but Jones was a veteran leader who was relatively reliable and always seemed to make a tough catch at the right time. A great security blanket for Trevor. On the other hand, Ridley makes some spectacular catches at times but he's also prone to drops and isn't the most reliable route runner. His value as a veteran leader is also questionable.
The condition of the OL is degraded from last year from injuries even though we didn't have a great line last year either. Also consider that losing Kirk is a HUGE blow. His production and leadership aren't really replaceable given what's on the roster at the moment. Another thing that gets lost is that Jim Bob Cooter had a strong role in the passing game and it shouldn't be any surprise that Minshew has been able to perform well enough to get Indy into contention since JBC became their offensive coordinator. In short, I believe that JBC > Press Taylor. It's going to be interesting to see what Pederson's approach is going to be going forward. Several Philly fans were saying that one of Doug's worst traits is that he's loyal to his guys to a fault. We'll see how that plays out over the rest of this season and into the offseason.
For all these things, Trevor is trying to compensate. He's pushing and making mistakes and it shows. Who knows how he'll continue to develop in the next couple of years but he's getting close to the point where we can say he is what he is. A talented franchise level QB but not a guy that can completely compensate for all the issues this team has on offense. At this point, I'd settle for just cutting down on the turnovers.
(12-18-2023, 02:27 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]A few things that get lost in the shuffle include the fact that Ridley was essentially a replacement for Marvin Jones Jr. Now, this should be a noteable improvement and it is from a talent standpoint but Jones was a veteran leader who was relatively reliable and always seemed to make a tough catch at the right time. A great security blanket for Trevor. On the other hand, Ridley makes some spectacular catches at times but he's also prone to drops and isn't the most reliable route runner. His value as a veteran leader is also questionable.
The condition of the OL is degraded from last year from injuries even though we didn't have a great line last year either. Also consider that losing Kirk is a HUGE blow. His production and leadership aren't really replaceable given what's on the roster at the moment. Another thing that gets lost is that Jim Bob Cooter had a strong role in the passing game and it shouldn't be any surprise that Minshew has been able to perform well enough to get Indy into contention since JBC became their offensive coordinator. In short, I believe that JBC > Press Taylor. It's going to be interesting to see what Pederson's approach is going to be going forward. Several Philly fans were saying that one of Doug's worst traits is that he's loyal to his guys to a fault. We'll see how that plays out over the rest of this season and into the offseason.
For all these things, Trevor is trying to compensate. He's pushing and making mistakes and it shows. Who knows how he'll continue to develop in the next couple of years but he's getting close to the point where we can say he is what he is. A talented franchise level QB but not a guy that can completely compensate for all the issues this team has on offense. At this point, I'd settle for just cutting down on the turnovers.
Exactly. A few of us have been saying this for a while now.
(12-18-2023, 02:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Love it.
People jumped ship on Lawrence last year and people are doing it again.
I’ll take all the Trevor stock.
He’s not perfect but it’s year 3. YEAR 3. He has taken this team from rock bottom to a potential playoff team in back to back years.
I'll match your stock amount and raise you! Fans can be so fickle and fair-weather. There's no doubting that he has had a disappointing season following last season's success. He makes some really bad mistakes which can hurt the team like the fumble yesterday. However, if I was starting a new NFL franchise tomorrow Trevor would be ranked right after Mahomes and Joe Burrow (tied with Stroud and Jackson) as my next choice. Yes, he's also ahead of Hurts, Allen, Herbert and Prescott. Trevor possesses the 3 most important traits of a great quarterback- arm strength, leadership and toughness. He will learn to reduce the costly mistakes he has made with more experience. Due to his competitiveness, he sometimes tries to do too much and this has hurt him. I still believe he is the right quarterback for this team and he will eventually bring the Lombardi Trophy to Jacksonville.
This is also his third straight year in a row now with technically a different offensive play caller. With a horrible offensive line. He has the arm talent. He just has to learn when to wear the cape and play hero out there and when to dial it back, take what the defense gives you and live to see another down.
It would help though if people did their [BLEEP] jobs and helped establish some continuity around him. We're quickly trying to turn this kid into Josh Freeman and Jason Campbell at this rate with the changes being thrown at him. Keep in mind, he just had his 50th career start last night.
He's only 24 years old. Plenty of time and plenty high of a ceiling to develop him. He'll learn. It's a hell of a lot easier to learn though when you're surrounded by consistency and competency. Shahid, Doug and Trent need to provide that going into next year with him nearing the end of his rookie contract.
(12-18-2023, 02:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Love it.
People jumped ship on Lawrence last year and people are doing it again.
I’ll take all the Trevor stock.
He’s not perfect but it’s year 3. YEAR 3. He has taken this team from rock bottom to a potential playoff team in back to back years.
Year 2 in my eyes. He was a worse QB after Urban than the day he was drafted
(12-18-2023, 01:52 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 01:34 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]He has a counting his rushing tds
But dude he also has 18 passing tds in 14 games. Obvious goat
It is still a gamble. He hasn't sold many that he will be a sb winning QB. He has the potential but it's just that
Here's the only stat that should ultimately matter:
From 2018 - 2020: 7 & 36
From 2021 - Current: 20 & 28, 1 Play Off Win, 1 Division Title,
This is a team that, from 2010, when they went 8 - 8, they had not produced a single winning season until 2017, and after they had the brief moment in the sun, and got one game away from the Superbowl? That's what happened above. They produced a 7 & 36 record from 2018 - 2020.
They're now in the process of still trying to grow, develop and learn. It wasn't an overnight fix, it was just an overnight sensation last year for a few weeks and the expectations were high going into this year. They still are in my opinion.
Baby steps. Let's get away from this Superbowl talking nonsense, and elitism nonsense. This franchise is just now learning how to walk tall again, they're going to trip themselves up from time to time but it's obvious where the weaknesses are on this football team.
*Hint* It's not the QB every week costing this team losses.
BS! The QB gets all the Glory and all the blame. He has been a major factor on why the team has been losing as of late. Stupid turnovers, stupid decisions, missed throws, etc. Lets not sugar coat this. He has the talent but I believe he has a ways to go to earn that 6 figure deal. I like a lot of his game, I also hate a lot of his game.
(12-18-2023, 01:57 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 11:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]That guy is asking who can do better, pretty much implying no one can.
Is Trevor elite? no
Does Trevor suck? no
is he good enough to win a SB? yes but he needs a really good team around him
Is he a special QB? imo no
This year, he is who the stats say he is: slightly above middle of the pack.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-...op-10/amp/
Agreed and that's still better than our previous quarterbacks(for a number of years). It's just nonsense to continue claiming he's elite. He's not until he plays like that. At that time we'll compare him to Mahomes. That comes with being elite. If we want to compare him to Baker instead then we admit he's mid.
It's absolutely clear that factors outside of his control are holding him back but Trevor also needs to do a much better job with some things. Not least holding on to the ball.
(12-18-2023, 02:51 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is also his third straight year in a row now with technically a different offensive play caller. With a horrible offensive line. He has the arm talent. He just has to learn when to wear the cape and play hero out there and when to dial it back, take what the defense gives you and live to see another down.
It would help though if people did their [BLEEP] jobs and helped establish some continuity around him. We're quickly trying to turn this kid into Josh Freeman and Jason Campbell at this rate with the changes being thrown at him. Keep in mind, he just had his 50th career start last night.
He's only 24 years old. Plenty of time and plenty high of a ceiling to develop him. He'll learn. It's a hell of a lot easier to learn though when you're surrounded by consistency and competency. Shahid, Doug and Trent need to provide that going into next year with him nearing the end of his rookie contract.
Agreed he has his age going for him. It is hard to sit down and give a player a $250 million dollar deal without seeing that type of caliber player on the field. To be honest I do not believe he currently is playing at a top 10 level QB right now. Potential is just that.
(12-18-2023, 02:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Love it.
People jumped ship on Lawrence last year and people are doing it again.
I’ll take all the Trevor stock.
He’s not perfect but it’s year 3. YEAR 3. He has taken this team from rock bottom to a potential playoff team in back to back years.
I think it's fair more so this year to put a lot of blame on surrounding talent and playcalling than it was in previous years. In the two previous years he was making far more individual mistakes than he is currently. The line is worse, the WRs have been worse, and we don't have ETN averaging 5+ yards per carry like he did for most of last season.
He's still making dumb mistakes, but he has cleaned up quite a few things.