Jeff Fisher is the only reason we didn't go to the super bowl in 99. That loser stole our playbook. Brunell played out of his mind that year.
(12-30-2022, 03:56 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 09:19 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd argue even the season records may be somewhat meaningless. Bortles owns that for yards and TDs. NFL stats just don't have the staying power that they do in other sports. I could make an argument that the best passing year in NFL history is Marino throwing for 5k yards in 1984. No one threw for 5k yards again until Drew Brees did it 25 years later which is an eternity in NFL standards. But from 2010 to now, it's been done a bunch of times.
As far as the Jags, Brunell has the longevity records. Bortles has some of the meaningful season records. Lawrence should be able to easily surpass both in time. But I still think Brunell is the best QB we've ever had based on a combination of ability and longevity with the team. And I'd argue his 96 season was the best passing season we've ever had. Led the league in passing yards, yards/attempt, and rushing yards by a QB. Yea threw a bunch of picks but that was mostly in the first half of the season before our big push to the playoffs. All NFL stats and players themselves really need to be graded in terms of how they compare to their peers and the era they played in.
Yeah, I think you have to compare quarterbacks to players of their own time. The rules during Bortles' time and today have changed to benefit the passing game. In his prime, Burnell went to 3 pro-bowls in 4 years and led the NFL in passing yards during one of those seasons. Even today, he actually remains one of the top 50 NFL quarterbacks all time in career passing yards. Despite this, I bet Lawrence does all that and much much more.
You're touting pro bowls?
Like I said, mid tier QB on teams packed with hall of fame talent.
(12-30-2022, 09:19 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 08:56 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Are you saying the only meaningful QB number is passing TDs?
Let's assume that's what I was saying, what would your response be?
I'd say there's more to being a QB than throwing TDs. Otherwise, Bortles would be our best QB.
(12-30-2022, 06:59 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 06:03 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I'd say there's more to being a QB than throwing TDs. Otherwise, Bortles would be our best QB.
And I'd agree.
With which sentence? It makes a huge difference, lol.
(12-30-2022, 07:07 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 06:59 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]And I'd agree.
With which sentence? It makes a huge difference, lol.
Both. There is more to being a quarterback than throwing touchdowns, and if that were the only part of being a quarterback Bortles would be at the top of the Jaguars' quarterback pantheon.
(12-30-2022, 05:54 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 03:56 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I think you have to compare quarterbacks to players of their own time. The rules during Bortles' time and today have changed to benefit the passing game. In his prime, Burnell went to 3 pro-bowls in 4 years and led the NFL in passing yards during one of those seasons. Even today, he actually remains one of the top 50 NFL quarterbacks all time in career passing yards. Despite this, I bet Lawrence does all that and much much more.
You're touting pro bowls?
Like I said, mid tier QB on teams packed with hall of fame talent.
Those teams only contain one player currently in the Hall of Fame. Pro bowls show how he performed compared to the other quarterbacks at the time. I know that you aren't a fan of Brunell and there's nothing that I can say that will change your mind. I'm just expressing my opinion. Let's agree to disagree.
Brunell as of now is the best QB we have ever had. But yes I think Trevor will eclipse that at some point.
That simple to me.
(12-30-2022, 08:42 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 05:54 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]You're touting pro bowls?
Like I said, mid tier QB on teams packed with hall of fame talent.
Those teams only contain one player currently in the Hall of Fame. Pro bowls show how he performed compared to the other quarterbacks at the time. I know that you aren't a fan of Brunell and there's nothing that I can say that will change your mind. I'm just expressing my opinion. Let's agree to disagree.
All-Pros are how he compares. Pro bowls are voted in by fans.
(12-30-2022, 08:47 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 08:42 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Those teams only contain one player currently in the Hall of Fame. Pro bowls show how he performed compared to the other quarterbacks at the time. I know that you aren't a fan of Brunell and there's nothing that I can say that will change your mind. I'm just expressing my opinion. Let's agree to disagree.
All-Pros are how he compares. Pro bowls are voted in by fans.
Players and coaches comprise two thirds of pro bowl voting and the fan vote, if anything, works against small market teams.
(12-30-2022, 08:42 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 05:54 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]You're touting pro bowls?
Like I said, mid tier QB on teams packed with hall of fame talent.
Those teams only contain one player currently in the Hall of Fame. Pro bowls show how he performed compared to the other quarterbacks at the time. I know that you aren't a fan of Brunell and there's nothing that I can say that will change your mind. I'm just expressing my opinion. Let's agree to disagree.
Do you think Fred and Jimmy are worthy of hall of fame membership? If so then that's three guys around him that were elite talents. If not then don't pretend to be a Jaguars fan.
(12-30-2022, 08:47 PM)Butters Wrote: [ -> ]Brunell as of now is the best QB we have ever had. But yes I think Trevor will eclipse that at some point.
That simple to me.
An indictment against the team's ability to draft quarterbacks over the first 26 seasons. I've said it many times, but Trevor is the first true franchise QB the team has ever had. Brunell was just a mid-tier starting QB in the right place at the right time to win a lot of games.
Frankly Trevor will be passing Brunell here very soon if not next weekend.
(12-29-2022, 07:53 AM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2022, 02:43 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Herbert is a very good QB. This year has been his worst statistically, and it's still not terrible.
I just don’t get the same feeling with him at the other top guys. Outside the highlight real throw, I don’t think he hits enough base hits.
I'm not really following the chargers, but from an outside perspective their issues seem to be coaching. Herbert typically plays well enough to win games and they don't. Maybe it's coaching, maybe it's the defense.. couldn't tell you.
(01-01-2023, 01:54 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2022, 07:53 AM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]I just don’t get the same feeling with him at the other top guys. Outside the highlight real throw, I don’t think he hits enough base hits.
I'm not really following the chargers, but from an outside perspective their issues seem to be coaching. Herbert typically plays well enough to win games and they don't. Maybe it's coaching, maybe it's the defense.. couldn't tell you.
I don't watch them much, either, but from what others say the chargers have a couple of problems. The first is that they run an offensive scheme that doesn't suit their talent well. It seems hard to believe given their statistical success, but since I don't watch them much I'll go with it.
Their other problem is that while Herbert throws a highlight reel pass or two per game, the rest of his game is usually pretty ordinary. If it's to be believed then he's not yet taken a next step to achieve some consistency they need.
Like I said, just what I've taken from reading about them.
(12-30-2022, 09:07 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2022, 08:42 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Those teams only contain one player currently in the Hall of Fame. Pro bowls show how he performed compared to the other quarterbacks at the time. I know that you aren't a fan of Brunell and there's nothing that I can say that will change your mind. I'm just expressing my opinion. Let's agree to disagree.
Do you think Fred and Jimmy are worthy of hall of fame membership? If so then that's three guys around him that were elite talents. If not then don't pretend to be a Jaguars fan.
(12-30-2022, 08:47 PM)Butters Wrote: [ -> ]Brunell as of now is the best QB we have ever had. But yes I think Trevor will eclipse that at some point.
That simple to me.
An indictment against the team's ability to draft quarterbacks over the first 26 seasons. I've said it many times, but Trevor is the first true franchise QB the team has ever had. Brunell was just a mid-tier starting QB in the right place at the right time to win a lot of games.
Brunell was never a mid-tier QB. Chris Berman said multiple times that he was one of the best QB’s in the league. 4 playoffs in a row. Big time, big boy throws. Two 1k receivers in a different era. Pro Bowl MVP. Lead league in passing and rushing for a QB. Tore his knee up in 1997 in week 3 of preseason, returned week 3 on MNF against division rival and won the game with a knee brace on. Was compared to Steve Young. Had a very strong arm. Threw a perfect dime to Jimmy on 3rd and 5 up in Denver in ‘96.
2 AFC Championship game appearances in 4 years.
Completed 3 passes of 50 yards or more against Patriots in 1996. All passes sailed 50 yards in the air. 3 pro bowls when pro bowls mattered. Pride of the Jaguars member.
Regardless of what anyone of us thinks, a professional football team would never put a middle tier player’s name on the actual stadium for the entire world to recognize. Only the best names in their teams history.
Retired in top 20 all time passing yards.