Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(11-26-2023, 07:41 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't think Trevor is a 50 million per year QB.

I'd rather sign him to a 40 million per year contract...bring Josh Allen back...have both retire Jags.

You’re right. He’s not 50 a year, he’ll get closer to 60

(11-26-2023, 07:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 07:29 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]...

I guess I'll just come here every weekend and say, "yeah, he's a franchise QB, can we end this thread?"

Or you could just discuss Trevor Lawrence here like everyone else and quit being a douche about it

Is it appropriate to insult a fellow member of the forum?

I'm providing my opinion that is within the terms of the is forum and within the appropriate thread. Why are you able to insult me for having a discussion?

It seems like you are antagonizing me. I had an opinion, I backed up my opinion. And you just came and insulted me.... Seems like you are trying to troll me into an arguement. And, I feel that is not appropriate.

(11-26-2023, 07:41 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't think Trevor is a 50 million per year QB.

I'd rather sign him to a 40 million per year contract...bring Josh Allen back...have both retire Jags.

Did your boy Stroud take the L ok today?

(11-26-2023, 08:23 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 07:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Or you could just discuss Trevor Lawrence here like everyone else and quit being a douche about it

Is it appropriate to insult a fellow member of the forum?

I'm providing my opinion that is within the terms of the is forum and within the appropriate thread.  Why are you able to insult me for having a discussion?

It seems like you are antagonizing me.  I had an opinion, I backed up my opinion.  And you just came and insulted me....  Seems like you are trying to troll me into an arguement.  And, I feel that is not appropriate.

So what contract would you give Lawrence?

May I summarize this thread?

(11-26-2023, 08:26 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]May I summarize this thread?

LOL

10 year $550m and call it a day.

(11-26-2023, 08:26 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 08:23 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Is it appropriate to insult a fellow member of the forum?

I'm providing my opinion that is within the terms of the is forum and within the appropriate thread.  Why are you able to insult me for having a discussion?

It seems like you are antagonizing me.  I had an opinion, I backed up my opinion.  And you just came and insulted me....  Seems like you are trying to troll me into an arguement.  And, I feel that is not appropriate.

So what contract would you give Lawrence?

You mean if I was Baalke?

If I was Baalke I'd try to short change him.  I'd try to explain to him that he's in the ultimate small market where the nation doesn't believe in him or in his team.  I'd then try to leverage that so that he'd give the team a discount so that we can use cap space to keep him successful...  

If I was Trevor, I'd tell them I'd take a discount so long as Press Taylor isn't the play calling OC.  

Florida doesn't have income tax, so we can possible get him to sign for less.  But, of course, if Trevor wants to play hard ball, we have to pay him at the upper scale.  And he deserves the upper scale.  

Again, if I was Baalke, I'd try to make him come back down to earth and explain to him that if he gives the team a bit of leverage, we can keep a juggernaught team that will pay off for him exponentially in terms of Brand creation and legacy.  But if we give him the BAG that is next in line, then the team will be decimated and he could potentially fizzle out like Herbert, Phillip Rivers, and other over paid QBs that needed the extra help...

I think it's a very good arguement.  Lawrence is a Franchise QB.  Dude is top 5 in terms of Mahommes mountain.  But he's also a long lasting QB.  He could be a QB for 15 years, unlike some of the more "mobile" QBs.  If he sees that, then we have a chance to keep him at a respectable salary as well as keeping some of our key pieces that also contrubute.

TLR - Pay Lawrence his money if he's in the money game.  But if Lawrence is in the Legacy game, maybe we can work out a deal that benefits him and the team.

(11-26-2023, 08:23 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 07:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Or you could just discuss Trevor Lawrence here like everyone else and quit being a douche about it

Is it appropriate to insult a fellow member of the forum?

I'm providing my opinion that is within the terms of the is forum and within the appropriate thread.  Why are you able to insult me for having a discussion?

It seems like you are antagonizing me.  I had an opinion, I backed up my opinion.  And you just came and insulted me....  Seems like you are trying to troll me into an arguement.  And, I feel that is not appropriate.

Stop being an idiot and get on topic 

More off topic posts will result in warnings

(11-26-2023, 08:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 08:23 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Is it appropriate to insult a fellow member of the forum?

I'm providing my opinion that is within the terms of the is forum and within the appropriate thread.  Why are you able to insult me for having a discussion?

It seems like you are antagonizing me.  I had an opinion, I backed up my opinion.  And you just came and insulted me....  Seems like you are trying to troll me into an arguement.  And, I feel that is not appropriate.

Stop being an idiot and get on topic 

More off topic posts will result in warnings

Please stop insulting me.  I feel this is inappropriate.

(11-26-2023, 08:37 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 08:26 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]So what contract would you give Lawrence?

You mean if I was Baalke?

If I was Baalke I'd try to short change him.  I'd try to explain to him that he's in the ultimate small market where the nation doesn't believe in him or in his team.  I'd then try to leverage that so that he'd give the team a discount so that we can use cap space to keep him successful...  

If I was Trevor, I'd tell them I'd take a discount so long as Press Taylor isn't the play calling OC.  

Florida doesn't have income tax, so we can possible get him to sign for less.  But, of course, if Trevor wants to play hard ball, we have to pay him at the upper scale.  And he deserves the upper scale.  

Again, if I was Baalke, I'd try to make him come back down to earth and explain to him that if he gives the team a bit of leverage, we can keep a juggernaught team that will pay off for him exponentially in terms of Brand creation and legacy.  But if we give him the BAG that is next in line, then the team will be decimated and he could potentially fizzle out like Herbert, Phillip Rivers, and other over paid QBs that needed the extra help...

I think it's a very good arguement.  Lawrence is a Franchise QB.  Dude is top 5 in terms of Mahommes mountain.  But he's also a long lasting QB.  He could be a QB for 15 years, unlike some of the more "mobile" QBs.  If he sees that, then we have a chance to keep him at a respectable salary as well as keeping some of our key pieces that also contrubute.

TLR - Pay Lawrence his money if he's in the money game.  But if Lawrence is in the Legacy game, maybe we can work out a deal that benefits him and the team.

Well this is the big unknown with the contract. I don't see Lawrence as a guy who would demand to be the highest paid player and that would give you more flexibility with the cap to use elsewhere. I wouldn't play hardball as we need Lawrence more than he needs us, and by that I mean he could easily get paid $55m+ by any number of other teams so he holds the cards. I think Shad and Baalke would want to give him an offer around $55m+ a year to prove how much they value him and what he's done for the franchise. It will be interesting to see how Lawrence approaches it as I wouldn't be shocked to see him take something like $48m a year just to try and help the team but wouldn't call him greedy if he becomes the #1 paid QB.

(11-26-2023, 08:54 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 08:37 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]You mean if I was Baalke?

If I was Baalke I'd try to short change him.  I'd try to explain to him that he's in the ultimate small market where the nation doesn't believe in him or in his team.  I'd then try to leverage that so that he'd give the team a discount so that we can use cap space to keep him successful...  

If I was Trevor, I'd tell them I'd take a discount so long as Press Taylor isn't the play calling OC.  

Florida doesn't have income tax, so we can possible get him to sign for less.  But, of course, if Trevor wants to play hard ball, we have to pay him at the upper scale.  And he deserves the upper scale.  

Again, if I was Baalke, I'd try to make him come back down to earth and explain to him that if he gives the team a bit of leverage, we can keep a juggernaught team that will pay off for him exponentially in terms of Brand creation and legacy.  But if we give him the BAG that is next in line, then the team will be decimated and he could potentially fizzle out like Herbert, Phillip Rivers, and other over paid QBs that needed the extra help...

I think it's a very good arguement.  Lawrence is a Franchise QB.  Dude is top 5 in terms of Mahommes mountain.  But he's also a long lasting QB.  He could be a QB for 15 years, unlike some of the more "mobile" QBs.  If he sees that, then we have a chance to keep him at a respectable salary as well as keeping some of our key pieces that also contrubute.

TLR - Pay Lawrence his money if he's in the money game.  But if Lawrence is in the Legacy game, maybe we can work out a deal that benefits him and the team.

Well this is the big unknown with the contract. I don't see Lawrence as a guy who would demand to be the highest paid player and that would give you more flexibility with the cap to use elsewhere. I wouldn't play hardball as we need Lawrence more than he needs us, and by that I mean he could easily get paid $55m+ by any number of other teams so he holds the cards. I think Shad and Baalke would want to give him an offer around $55m+ a year to prove how much they value him and what he's done for the franchise. It will be interesting to see how Lawrence approaches it as I wouldn't be shocked to see him take something like $48m a year just to try and help the team but wouldn't call him greedy if he becomes the #1 paid QB.

Exactly.  

You pay Lawrence whatever he thinks he's worth.  He's not a running QB.  So as long as you have an O-Line like we had today, he's gonna be around for 15 more years.

But...  if we sign him as the highest paid QB, we're gonna lose a lot of talent and will probably take a step back.  Baalke's credibility is on the line here.  There's money on the table that Trevor can either decide to snatch now, or delay for later.  But the only way that happens is if Baalke can provide a clear plan of how that money not given will enhance his future earnings...

Part of that is keeping the key players on this team.  I haven't looked at the cap situation for next year...  But yeah, that's gonna be a thing moving into next year.

Trevor Lawrence is legit.  But he's also a QB that needs some top flight help based on the how the AFC is.  You can't just rely on Trevor Lawrence to get us to the SB.  He needs help, which means he needs high priced players on the offense and the defense.

(11-26-2023, 09:04 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 08:54 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Well this is the big unknown with the contract. I don't see Lawrence as a guy who would demand to be the highest paid player and that would give you more flexibility with the cap to use elsewhere. I wouldn't play hardball as we need Lawrence more than he needs us, and by that I mean he could easily get paid $55m+ by any number of other teams so he holds the cards. I think Shad and Baalke would want to give him an offer around $55m+ a year to prove how much they value him and what he's done for the franchise. It will be interesting to see how Lawrence approaches it as I wouldn't be shocked to see him take something like $48m a year just to try and help the team but wouldn't call him greedy if he becomes the #1 paid QB.

Exactly.  

You pay Lawrence whatever he thinks he's worth.  He's not a running QB.  So as long as you have an O-Line like we had today, he's gonna be around for 15 more years.

But...  if we sign him as the highest paid QB, we're gonna lose a lot of talent and will probably take a step back.  Baalke's credibility is on the line here.  There's money on the table that Trevor can either decide to snatch now, or delay for later.  But the only way that happens is if Baalke can provide a clear plan of how that money not given will enhance his future earnings...

Part of that is keeping the key players on this team.  I haven't looked at the cap situation for next year...  But yeah, that's gonna be a thing moving into next year.

Trevor Lawrence is legit.  But he's also a QB that needs some top flight help based on the how the AFC is.  You can't just rely on Trevor Lawrence to get us to the SB.  He needs help, which means he needs high priced players on the offense and the defense.

I get you and this is a problem a lot of teams with top young QB's moving onto 2nd contracts are going to have to decide. Where you spend your cap to maximise your QB. The Chiefs this year have gone heavy on D and have Kelce and a good Oline but the receivers are poor and then someone like the Bengals who have a lot spent on O but the D is suffering. There's no sure way and it's what makes or breaks a GM and HC career. 

I would have absolutely no problem paying Lawrence #1 money and wouldn't criticise the FO for doing so. The cap is always rising so in a couple of years after it would be a more reasonable contract and you would have cap still to work with. Cap wise for next year we are $38m under the cap but Allen, Ridley, Agnew, McManus, Cleveland are FA agents so will need resigning. We have some easy cuts like Cam which saves $17.7m so we have plenty of ways to maneuver and pay everyone but it will make difficult decisions down the line but that's also true of all the top teams.

(11-26-2023, 07:11 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 07:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Trust the process. Mods do a good job here sorting all the crazy [BLEEP] that overspills from thread to thread and merging them when needed.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

eh, we'll see...

I made a post about a specific play call.  And 2 moderators attacked me for creating a new thread that was different from the Pederson/Press Taylor Play Calling "mega thread".

It's obvious they want to corral certain topics that they do not like into one mega threat so that it becomes diluted.

God forbid multiple threads about how bad the OC is start to bubble up.  Better to just have it in one area where you can't really pin point the issues.  It all becomes noise.  

Like, for example.  That 1st and Goal with 1 second left in the Half should have it's own thread....  Instead it's all filtered into the Pederson/Press Taylor Playcalling Mega Thread.  It dilutes the ability to actually discuss why that one single play is a clear example of how bad an OC Press Taylor is...

But that's just my analysis.  Feel free to disagree.  I won't insult you or attack you in a pejorative if you think I'm wrong...

People whine about the weirdest [BLEEP].

Here’s an idea, if you don’t like the thread don’t read it.  Good grief.

(11-26-2023, 09:18 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 09:04 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly.  

You pay Lawrence whatever he thinks he's worth.  He's not a running QB.  So as long as you have an O-Line like we had today, he's gonna be around for 15 more years.

But...  if we sign him as the highest paid QB, we're gonna lose a lot of talent and will probably take a step back.  Baalke's credibility is on the line here.  There's money on the table that Trevor can either decide to snatch now, or delay for later.  But the only way that happens is if Baalke can provide a clear plan of how that money not given will enhance his future earnings...

Part of that is keeping the key players on this team.  I haven't looked at the cap situation for next year...  But yeah, that's gonna be a thing moving into next year.

Trevor Lawrence is legit.  But he's also a QB that needs some top flight help based on the how the AFC is.  You can't just rely on Trevor Lawrence to get us to the SB.  He needs help, which means he needs high priced players on the offense and the defense.

I get you and this is a problem a lot of teams with top young QB's moving onto 2nd contracts are going to have to decide. Where you spend your cap to maximise your QB. The Chiefs this year have gone heavy on D and have Kelce and a good Oline but the receivers are poor and then someone like the Bengals who have a lot spent on O but the D is suffering. There's no sure way and it's what makes or breaks a GM and HC career. 

I would have absolutely no problem paying Lawrence #1 money and wouldn't criticise the FO for doing so. The cap is always rising so in a couple of years after it would be a more reasonable contract and you would have cap still to work with. Cap wise for next year we are $38m under the cap but Allen, Ridley, Agnew, McManus, Cleveland are FA agents so will need resigning. We have some easy cuts like Cam which saves $17.7m so we have plenty of ways to maneuver and pay everyone but it will make difficult decisions down the line but that's also true of all the top teams.

Cam's injury, though really tragic, actually helps cement some of our cap savings...  You're right, there are opportunity costs that can be mitigated.  My main point is that Trevor could go the Lamar Jackson/ Russel Wilson/ Deshaun Watson route and try to get the most money he can get and damn the team's needs...

I think Trevor Lawrence isn't that type of guy.  But even with that, it's not like Trevor Lawrence's agents aren't going to try and get the best deal they can for him...

But you're right, there is plenty of room to work with.  I just hate to think about how many of my favorite players we may be loosing over the next couple years.  Devon Lloyd, for instance.  Dude is balling now.  He should be a 2nd contract Jaguar.  Oloukun should be a re-signed jaguar.  I mean, this defense has so many good players that should be kept.  But I have a sinking feeling we're gonna lose some of these guys, and it's just gonna make our life a lot harder getting to a SB.

Pretty sure they said today that Trevor had the most 40+ yard competitions in one game of any QB since Carr in 2016 or something like that

(11-26-2023, 08:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 08:23 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Is it appropriate to insult a fellow member of the forum?

I'm providing my opinion that is within the terms of the is forum and within the appropriate thread.  Why are you able to insult me for having a discussion?

It seems like you are antagonizing me.  I had an opinion, I backed up my opinion.  And you just came and insulted me....  Seems like you are trying to troll me into an arguement.  And, I feel that is not appropriate.

Stop being an idiot and get on topic 

More off topic posts will result in warnings

He's right. 

Grow up.

(11-26-2023, 09:34 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 09:18 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I get you and this is a problem a lot of teams with top young QB's moving onto 2nd contracts are going to have to decide. Where you spend your cap to maximise your QB. The Chiefs this year have gone heavy on D and have Kelce and a good Oline but the receivers are poor and then someone like the Bengals who have a lot spent on O but the D is suffering. There's no sure way and it's what makes or breaks a GM and HC career. 

I would have absolutely no problem paying Lawrence #1 money and wouldn't criticise the FO for doing so. The cap is always rising so in a couple of years after it would be a more reasonable contract and you would have cap still to work with. Cap wise for next year we are $38m under the cap but Allen, Ridley, Agnew, McManus, Cleveland are FA agents so will need resigning. We have some easy cuts like Cam which saves $17.7m so we have plenty of ways to maneuver and pay everyone but it will make difficult decisions down the line but that's also true of all the top teams.

Cam's injury, though really tragic, actually helps cement some of our cap savings...  You're right, there are opportunity costs that can be mitigated.  My main point is that Trevor could go the Lamar Jackson/ Russel Wilson/ Deshaun Watson route and try to get the most money he can get and damn the team's needs...

I think Trevor Lawrence isn't that type of guy.  But even with that, it's not like Trevor Lawrence's agents aren't going to try and get the best deal they can for him...

But you're right, there is plenty of room to work with.  I just hate to think about how many of my favorite players we may be loosing over the next couple years.  Devon Lloyd, for instance.  Dude is balling now.  He should be a 2nd contract Jaguar.  Oloukun should be a re-signed jaguar.  I mean, this defense has so many good players that should be kept.  But I have a sinking feeling we're gonna lose some of these guys, and it's just gonna make our life a lot harder getting to a SB.

The benefit of taking guys like Lloyd in the 1st is the 5th year option. So if he continues to ball, he will be here a min of 3 more years after this year. This is also a reason I like trading back into the 1st. Unless you are Balkee and whiff of 2/3s of your picks.

(11-26-2023, 09:46 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 09:34 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Cam's injury, though really tragic, actually helps cement some of our cap savings...  You're right, there are opportunity costs that can be mitigated.  My main point is that Trevor could go the Lamar Jackson/ Russel Wilson/ Deshaun Watson route and try to get the most money he can get and damn the team's needs...

I think Trevor Lawrence isn't that type of guy.  But even with that, it's not like Trevor Lawrence's agents aren't going to try and get the best deal they can for him...

But you're right, there is plenty of room to work with.  I just hate to think about how many of my favorite players we may be loosing over the next couple years.  Devon Lloyd, for instance.  Dude is balling now.  He should be a 2nd contract Jaguar.  Oloukun should be a re-signed jaguar.  I mean, this defense has so many good players that should be kept.  But I have a sinking feeling we're gonna lose some of these guys, and it's just gonna make our life a lot harder getting to a SB.

The benefit of taking guys like Lloyd in the 1st is the 5th year option. So if he continues to ball, he will be here a min of 3 more years after this year. This is also a reason I like trading back into the 1st. Unless you are Balkee and whiff of 2/3s of your picks.

Inside backer is unfortunately not a premium spot. Next year is Foyes last year, I can see an extension that coincides with Lloyd’s rookie deal and you move on from Foye when Lloyd’s time to be paid comes.

Laser
https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1728876275425759293