(09-17-2023, 08:13 PM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2023, 04:23 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Your absolutely right. He was terrible in pass protection, especially when Jones was his assignment. He had a couple of drops on 3rd downs that cost us and he fumbled that lateral. Also he kept not toe tapping in the endzone as well didn't he. If only Lawrence hadn't made all those mistakes as everyone else was perfect today.
What a moron you are.
Really no need to resort to name calling, we’re all fans of the same team.
Only reason I mention this is because so many people anointed Trevor as elite in this thread. My whole point has been that he has potential but he isn’t there yet. Cautious optimism.
If I offended you then I apologise.
But what annoys me is when we have a bad game or Lawrence doesn't play well how people are just waiting to take a shot at him or write him off, completely ignoring all the good he has done. Lots of people had a bad day yesterday, the Chiefs D did a great job and we didn't execute.
Lawrence is still our guy and is still elite.
(09-18-2023, 12:31 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2023, 08:13 PM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]Really no need to resort to name calling, we’re all fans of the same team.
Only reason I mention this is because so many people anointed Trevor as elite in this thread. My whole point has been that he has potential but he isn’t there yet. Cautious optimism.
If I offended you then I apologise.
But what annoys me is when we have a bad game or Lawrence doesn't play well how people are just waiting to take a shot at him or write him off, completely ignoring all the good he has done. Lots of people had a bad day yesterday, the Chiefs D did a great job and we didn't execute.
Lawrence is still our guy and is still elite.
Between us, the Chiefs, the Bengals, the Bills and Chargers. We've combined for 3 wins and 7 losses. These are supposed to be the best teams in the AFC this year. With teams like Baltimore and Miami hanging around to round out the back half of the play-off race.
Every one of these teams in two weeks has at least looked flat or fell short on offense and/or defense. It's okay. At some point the main staples of these respective teams will be back fully healed or things will eventually click and it'll be off to the races as they begin to separate themselves from the pack.
It's too easy to overreact. The Quarterback always gets the blame because he's personally getting the most touches out there offensively. He didn't have his best game yesterday. However, it was far, far from his worst game. The fact that he didn't force anything or cough it up is a good sign to me.
He had a few passes sail on him that he'll wish he had back all week. He had a few plays where the line failed to give him enough time to reach his 2nd and 3rd level reads. He had virtually no help from his running game. Which I feel is more so on the line play and play caller(s) in general.
It'll get better over the next 15 weeks. Just like it did last year. It's not a matter of if. It's just a matter of when. I would say once they get over this London hump and get that bye week we'll see some serious changes personnel wise if they're barely winning games and the offense continues to struggle with push upfront or time in the pocket for him.
Quite simply, the team crapped the bed in the red zone. We trade that 0 - 4 for 2 - 4 and we are tied and playing for the win in OT.
The Whole offense, including Lawrence had a really bad game. It also shows that we are not ready for prime time talk yet.
(09-17-2023, 08:36 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence played just about as good as you could ask considering the lack of pass protection.
He missed a few throws, sure. But none of his missed throwed were game breakers. On the flip side, his receivers betrayed him more so than Luke trying to keep Leia a secret to Vader.
Trevor kept us in this game. It was not his fault at all that we lost. I've only been posting here for about 10 months, so I'm not sure exactly whey this thread is 67 pages long. The discussion about whether or not Trevor Lawrence is a Franchise QB is clearly over.
Dude is a potential HOF'er so long as Doug Pederson doesn't [BLEEP] up his progression by forcing Press Taylor to design the plays and call the game on Sunday...
This right here.
We have been sloppy. Not sure if that means Taylor is rewriting the playbook or isn't calling plays in ways that Pederson has been, or if that would even be something that would make the team appear so disjointed.
A lesser QB would have given that game away. The D deserves a TON of credit for holding Mahomes & Co. to only 17. If we weren't so dang out of sync on offense, we are probably cheering for a win today. We had our shots, and blew them.
It's almost like we're calling plays fearing failure more than trying to dictate pace or style. Dipping toes in water instead of kicking a D right in the neck. I get that our line isn't going to allow a ton of time to develop plays way downfield, but when we started hitting on plays and marching right back to the line, that is precisely how you get a D to wilt in that Florida heat, and we just...stopped. GO FOR THE THROAT, coach.
I think self-doubt reigned the day. Not necessarily from our QB, but the entirety of the offense around him.
(09-18-2023, 12:47 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023, 12:31 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]If I offended you then I apologise.
But what annoys me is when we have a bad game or Lawrence doesn't play well how people are just waiting to take a shot at him or write him off, completely ignoring all the good he has done. Lots of people had a bad day yesterday, the Chiefs D did a great job and we didn't execute.
Lawrence is still our guy and is still elite.
Between us, the Chiefs, the Bengals, the Bills and Chargers. We've combined for 3 wins and 7 losses. These are supposed to be the best teams in the AFC this year. With teams like Baltimore and Miami hanging around to round out the back half of the play-off race.
Every one of these teams in two weeks has at least looked flat or fell short on offense and/or defense. It's okay. At some point the main staples of these respective teams will be back fully healed or things will eventually click and it'll be off to the races as they begin to separate themselves from the pack.
It's too easy to overreact. The Quarterback always gets the blame because he's personally getting the most touches out there offensively. He didn't have his best game yesterday. However, it was far, far from his worst game. The fact that he didn't force anything or cough it up is a good sign to me.
He had a few passes sail on him that he'll wish he had back all week. He had a few plays where the line failed to give him enough time to reach his 2nd and 3rd level reads. He had virtually no help from his running game. Which I feel is more so on the line play and play caller(s) in general.
It'll get better over the next 15 weeks. Just like it did last year. It's not a matter of if. It's just a matter of when. I would say once they get over this London hump and get that bye week we'll see some serious changes personnel wise if they're barely winning games and the offense continues to struggle with push upfront or time in the pocket for him.
Last year, you could see how the coaching was making a huge impact on our team. Of course we were coming from Coach Urban [BLEEP] to Doug Pederson, Pederson being a legit SB champion.
But this year, it should be Coach Pederson's second year with Trevor Lawrence in his offense!!! This year would be a huge leap in terms of offensive superiority. Trevor and Doug, together creating a relationship like Montana and Walsh!!!!! It was all so easy to see!!!
Instead, it's obvious Pederson isn't coaching the offense and gave up those responsibilities to Press Taylor.
I mean, think about it. Everyone knows, even if they don't want to admit it, that this offense over the last 2 weeks doesn't look, schematically, like last year. So are we now looking at a 3rd straight year of Trevor Lawrence having to work through a new offense?
Rookie Year: C.U.M.
Year 2: Pederson's Genius
Year 3: The Press Taylor Project to ensure Press Taylor gets to be HC somewhere and Doug Pederson can create a coaching tree; all for the Hubris of these 2 dudes at the expense of developing a
SB team and a potential HOF QB.
(09-18-2023, 03:52 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023, 12:47 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Between us, the Chiefs, the Bengals, the Bills and Chargers. We've combined for 3 wins and 7 losses. These are supposed to be the best teams in the AFC this year. With teams like Baltimore and Miami hanging around to round out the back half of the play-off race.
Every one of these teams in two weeks has at least looked flat or fell short on offense and/or defense. It's okay. At some point the main staples of these respective teams will be back fully healed or things will eventually click and it'll be off to the races as they begin to separate themselves from the pack.
It's too easy to overreact. The Quarterback always gets the blame because he's personally getting the most touches out there offensively. He didn't have his best game yesterday. However, it was far, far from his worst game. The fact that he didn't force anything or cough it up is a good sign to me.
He had a few passes sail on him that he'll wish he had back all week. He had a few plays where the line failed to give him enough time to reach his 2nd and 3rd level reads. He had virtually no help from his running game. Which I feel is more so on the line play and play caller(s) in general.
It'll get better over the next 15 weeks. Just like it did last year. It's not a matter of if. It's just a matter of when. I would say once they get over this London hump and get that bye week we'll see some serious changes personnel wise if they're barely winning games and the offense continues to struggle with push upfront or time in the pocket for him.
Last year, you could see how the coaching was making a huge impact on our team. Of course we were coming from Coach Urban [BLEEP] to Doug Pederson, Pederson being a legit SB champion.
But this year, it should be Coach Pederson's second year with Trevor Lawrence in his offense!!! This year would be a huge leap in terms of offensive superiority. Trevor and Doug, together creating a relationship like Montana and Walsh!!!!! It was all so easy to see!!!
Instead, it's obvious Pederson isn't coaching the offense and gave up those responsibilities to Press Taylor.
I mean, think about it. Everyone knows, even if they don't want to admit it, that this offense over the last 2 weeks doesn't look, schematically, like last year. So are we now looking at a 3rd straight year of Trevor Lawrence having to work through a new offense?
Rookie Year: C.U.M.
Year 2: Pederson's Genius
Year 3: The Press Taylor Project to ensure Press Taylor gets to be HC somewhere and Doug Pederson can create a coaching tree; all for the Hubris of these 2 dudes at the expense of developing a
SB team and a potential HOF QB.
Coaching and calling plays are two VERY different things.
Also - this board questioned the heck out of Pederson's play calls in 3 or 4 losses last year too, so I wouldn't be so quick to rush into all this Pederson great/ Taylor bad stuff.
And AGAIN:
It is the same offense as last year!!
Stop acting like it is a new offense.
It is not.
Go listen to Lawrence tell you if you don't believe me. (2:15)
https://www.jaguars.com/video/trevor-law...ce-jackson
(09-18-2023, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023, 03:52 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Last year, you could see how the coaching was making a huge impact on our team. Of course we were coming from Coach Urban [BLEEP] to Doug Pederson, Pederson being a legit SB champion.
But this year, it should be Coach Pederson's second year with Trevor Lawrence in his offense!!! This year would be a huge leap in terms of offensive superiority. Trevor and Doug, together creating a relationship like Montana and Walsh!!!!! It was all so easy to see!!!
Instead, it's obvious Pederson isn't coaching the offense and gave up those responsibilities to Press Taylor.
I mean, think about it. Everyone knows, even if they don't want to admit it, that this offense over the last 2 weeks doesn't look, schematically, like last year. So are we now looking at a 3rd straight year of Trevor Lawrence having to work through a new offense?
Rookie Year: C.U.M.
Year 2: Pederson's Genius
Year 3: The Press Taylor Project to ensure Press Taylor gets to be HC somewhere and Doug Pederson can create a coaching tree; all for the Hubris of these 2 dudes at the expense of developing a
SB team and a potential HOF QB.
Coaching and calling plays are two VERY different things.
Also - this board questioned the heck out of Pederson's play calls in 3 or 4 losses last year too, so I wouldn't be so quick to rush into all this Pederson great/ Taylor bad stuff.
And AGAIN:
It is the same offense as last year!!
Stop acting like it is a new offense.
It is not.
Go listen to Lawrence tell you if you don't believe me. (2:15)
https://www.jaguars.com/video/trevor-law...ce-jackson
There was a big segment of people who hated how much Pederson threw the ball last year early on. And a group of people that said Lawrence should just be a game manager.
R-E-L-A-X
The team missed on some key opportunities but the fact remains they are 1-1, 1-0 in the division and 3 of Lawrences last 4 losses have been to the Chiefs. It's going to be alright.
(09-18-2023, 03:39 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2023, 08:36 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence played just about as good as you could ask considering the lack of pass protection.
He missed a few throws, sure. But none of his missed throwed were game breakers. On the flip side, his receivers betrayed him more so than Luke trying to keep Leia a secret to Vader.
Trevor kept us in this game. It was not his fault at all that we lost. I've only been posting here for about 10 months, so I'm not sure exactly whey this thread is 67 pages long. The discussion about whether or not Trevor Lawrence is a Franchise QB is clearly over.
Dude is a potential HOF'er so long as Doug Pederson doesn't [BLEEP] up his progression by forcing Press Taylor to design the plays and call the game on Sunday...
This right here.
We have been sloppy. Not sure if that means Taylor is rewriting the playbook or isn't calling plays in ways that Pederson has been, or if that would even be something that would make the team appear so disjointed.
A lesser QB would have given that game away. The D deserves a TON of credit for holding Mahomes & Co. to only 17. If we weren't so dang out of sync on offense, we are probably cheering for a win today. We had our shots, and blew them.
It's almost like we're calling plays fearing failure more than trying to dictate pace or style. Dipping toes in water instead of kicking a D right in the neck. I get that our line isn't going to allow a ton of time to develop plays way downfield, but when we started hitting on plays and marching right back to the line, that is precisely how you get a D to wilt in that Florida heat, and we just...stopped. GO FOR THE THROAT, coach.
I think self-doubt reigned the day. Not necessarily from our QB, but the entirety of the offense around him.
Responding to the emphasis I added to your response:
There are no QBs other than Trevor Lawrence that would have been able to withstand the pressure and terrible play calling to the extent Trevor Lawrence did. He had 1 fumble lost because Agnew had stone hands. Other than that, Lawrence was sacked 4 times and was basically dealing with pressure all damn day. And with that said, we put balls where they needed to be. The criticism of Lawrence's throws where the WRs (Jones, Kirk, Ridley) were at the back of the end zone every time isn't on the QB.
Imagine having a play called and that play has route concepts that must be run by the recievers... And then you blame the QB for getting the ball into the hands of each reciever, but the reciever was running a route that took them out of bounds.
Would you blame it on the QB, the receiver, or the coach that trained them to run the routes so that they catch it in bounds!?!?!?!?!?!?
The QB dropped a dime every time. The recievers caught the ball, every time. But the route was too close to the boundary!
Last year? Route concepts had fades, crossers, roll outs. QB dives. QB draws plays. RB Dives. RB play action with quick slants. I mean, there were so many plays we ran in the red zone last year.
This year??? Dude. This year it looks like we don't have Doug Pederson controlling the offense. It's not the same offense as last year. It's just not. You can't convince me that this offense we have seen for the last 2 weeks is the same offense we ran last year. It's not the same offense, man. And that is a problem.
(09-17-2023, 08:23 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2023, 08:13 PM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]Really no need to resort to name calling, we’re all fans of the same team.
Only reason I mention this is because so many people anointed Trevor as elite in this thread. My whole point has been that he has potential but he isn’t there yet. Cautious optimism.
Is Burrow elite?
0-2, averaging 150 passing yards a game with 2 TDS and 1 interception overall.
Trevor is 9-4 in his last 13 games with 3 of those 4 losses to the Chiefs….
He certainly wasn’t good today. Missed some throws he usually makes but today was an overall offensive mishap. Zay not getting 2 feet down twice. Kirk with a timely 3rd down drop (he was great today btw). Ridley looked gassed for half the game. Oline was in shambles all game.
It was an overall mess.
Trevor is a top 5 QB and will be just fine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(09-18-2023, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023, 03:52 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Last year, you could see how the coaching was making a huge impact on our team. Of course we were coming from Coach Urban [BLEEP] to Doug Pederson, Pederson being a legit SB champion.
But this year, it should be Coach Pederson's second year with Trevor Lawrence in his offense!!! This year would be a huge leap in terms of offensive superiority. Trevor and Doug, together creating a relationship like Montana and Walsh!!!!! It was all so easy to see!!!
Instead, it's obvious Pederson isn't coaching the offense and gave up those responsibilities to Press Taylor.
I mean, think about it. Everyone knows, even if they don't want to admit it, that this offense over the last 2 weeks doesn't look, schematically, like last year. So are we now looking at a 3rd straight year of Trevor Lawrence having to work through a new offense?
Rookie Year: C.U.M.
Year 2: Pederson's Genius
Year 3: The Press Taylor Project to ensure Press Taylor gets to be HC somewhere and Doug Pederson can create a coaching tree; all for the Hubris of these 2 dudes at the expense of developing a
SB team and a potential HOF QB.
Coaching and calling plays are two VERY different things.
Also - this board questioned the heck out of Pederson's play calls in 3 or 4 losses last year too, so I wouldn't be so quick to rush into all this Pederson great/ Taylor bad stuff.
And AGAIN:
It is the same offense as last year!!
Stop acting like it is a new offense.
It is not.
Go listen to Lawrence tell you if you don't believe me. (2:15)
https://www.jaguars.com/video/trevor-law...ce-jackson
Coaching and calling plays are part of the same thing. They are the the responsibility of the person running that squad. Last year, it was Pederson that controlled the Offense. This year, it's clear he's not running the Offense. He's turned over the play calling and practice sessions to Press Taylor. Taylor changed up the schemes, he's changed the plays. Press still takes the same risks that Pederson did. But his risks are gambles that are of EXTREMELY LOW PERCENTAGE. Press is clearly trying to get a HC job. And he's doing it at the expense of this offense and our franchise QB.
Sorry, it's not the same offense. It's just not. Go watch highlights of last year and watch highlights of this year. It's not the same. I will admit that our O-Line this year has messed up certain plays. But the plays are not the same, regardless... Last year, Pederson let Trevor read plays between the 20s. Trevor had multiple progressions to go through last year. And mostly he made the right decision, but sometimes he'd be inaccurate. Then, when we got inside the 20, then those plays became scripted and 1 read concepts. Read the first throw, if it's not there run or throw it away. The designed 1 read plays last year mainly were inside the 20s.
This year? We're running specific plays so much more than we did last year between the 20s. Look at Trevor's first sack from yesterday. There was only one read. You mentioned it in another comment yourself that you're sick of all the gadget plays!!!! Those gadget plays are 1 read plays!!!!! We never did that garbage last year between the 20s!!!! We're run gadgets last year, but usually it was when we were in the red zone or near it. This year??? It's just not the same. It's only 2 weeks. But it's like I'm watching a Bizzaro version of what we had last year. This isn't the same offense. Just go look at highlights from last year and compare them to the highlights this year. These are not the same offenses...
You can bold up your words. But it doesn't change what we are watching. It's just not the same game. You can't shout at me and tell me that I'm wrong when I am watching plays from last year and comparing them to this year and seeing how obviously different it looks.
EDIT
https://www.nfl.com/videos/chiefs-vs-jag...hts-week-2
https://www.jaguars.com/video/highlight-...022-season
I've been watching these 2 videos during my breaks... The highlights from last year VS the highlights from Sunday are just night and day different. It's obvious, man. It's 2 different offensive squads. There must be a reason that our offense looks so much different from one season to the next... I mean, I don't know how else to explain it. This offense is being coached by someone other than the person that coached them last year.
LOL
It's the same offense - Press is just not focusing on the exact same variations and calling the game different situationally than Doug did.
They didn't start a new play book, they merely tweaked it.
I gave you a video where Trevor tells you it's the same as last year and you are just being obtuse.
Obviously it’s time to panic. We lost one game to the Super Bowl champs and didn’t play great. I just wish it were more than a two game season.
![[Image: s7M67]](https://kappa.lol/s7M67)
Most of the arguments in this thread in a nutshell
(09-18-2023, 12:47 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023, 12:31 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]If I offended you then I apologise.
But what annoys me is when we have a bad game or Lawrence doesn't play well how people are just waiting to take a shot at him or write him off, completely ignoring all the good he has done. Lots of people had a bad day yesterday, the Chiefs D did a great job and we didn't execute.
Lawrence is still our guy and is still elite.
Between us, the Chiefs, the Bengals, the Bills and Chargers. We've combined for 3 wins and 7 losses. These are supposed to be the best teams in the AFC this year. With teams like Baltimore and Miami hanging around to round out the back half of the play-off race.
Every one of these teams in two weeks has at least looked flat or fell short on offense and/or defense. It's okay. At some point the main staples of these respective teams will be back fully healed or things will eventually click and it'll be off to the races as they begin to separate themselves from the pack.
It's too easy to overreact. The Quarterback always gets the blame because he's personally getting the most touches out there offensively. He didn't have his best game yesterday. However, it was far, far from his worst game. The fact that he didn't force anything or cough it up is a good sign to me.
He had a few passes sail on him that he'll wish he had back all week. He had a few plays where the line failed to give him enough time to reach his 2nd and 3rd level reads. He had virtually no help from his running game. Which I feel is more so on the line play and play caller(s) in general.
It'll get better over the next 15 weeks. Just like it did last year. It's not a matter of if. It's just a matter of when. I would say once they get over this London hump and get that bye week we'll see some serious changes personnel wise if they're barely winning games and the offense continues to struggle with push upfront or time in the pocket for him.
Completely agree. Yesterday was a frustrating game and there were plenty of opportunities we left out there but we will learn and improve from games like that. This is still a young team, this isn't a SB loaded roster and it's a work in progress. I have zero doubt we will see the team execute better and start to click in all areas as the season goes on. I want to see this team hit form in November/December.
Also agree about the other teams out there right now. Everyone looks like they are getting up to speed and have strengths and weaknesses. We have the same record as Buffalo and Kansas City and a game up on the Bengals.
The KC, Buffalo, Niners, Bengals, Ravens games are the ones I'm most interested to see how we do. Those are the teams that will be competing come January and i felt the KC game was a bit too early but by the time the Bengals and Ravens games come I expect to see us showing we learnt from mistakes like yesterday.
(09-18-2023, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Coaching and calling plays are two VERY different things.
Also - this board questioned the heck out of Pederson's play calls in 3 or 4 losses last year too, so I wouldn't be so quick to rush into all this Pederson great/ Taylor bad stuff.
And AGAIN:
It is the same offense as last year!!
Stop acting like it is a new offense.
It is not.
Go listen to Lawrence tell you if you don't believe me. (2:15)
https://www.jaguars.com/video/trevor-law...ce-jackson
While the playbook may be the same, the implementation and strategy seems to be different. It might just be rust, we don't get much of a preseason to see it work or not. Maybe it was that last year's offense was just
competent compared to the SNAFU we had under Urbz.
Winning cures everything, if we pants the tinhorns all the handwringing will end, or at least wane.
I sure am glad we aren't as bad the Bengals and Chargers.
(09-18-2023, 04:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
It's the same offense - Press is just not focusing on the exact same variations and calling the game different situationally than Doug did.
They didn't start a new play book, they merely tweaked it.
I gave you a video where Trevor tells you it's the same as last year and you are just being obtuse.
I'm pretty sure Press Taylor slept with his mom. It's the only explanation.
Normally his play vs kc would have bothered me, but two things to keep in mind.
He has 3-4 tds if the wrs kept their feet in bounds
Mahomes also struggled in what they kept advertising as 120 degree weather.
Im not worried, but he still needs to be more consistent in general. The elite ones show up eventually.