(07-28-2023, 10:30 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (07-27-2023, 07:21 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]"Trevor can't run like Fields do but Fields throw like Trevor." - Tomlinson
Well first, Trevor's running ability is underrated. But Fields runs because he has too, he doesn't see the field as well. He has a big arm but far less accuracy. He completed 58.9% of his passes and threw for all of 2242 yards. He's going to have to do a lot of work to even become a competent starter. Lawrence is arguably an MVP candidate.
Disclaimer: I think Fields is going to work himself into a quality starter...eventually.
Fields may have the talent and arm capabilities to be a good QB, the problem with him and also the issue for Houston and Stroud is that they both played in the same brain dead offensive system in college. I have never watched QB tape quite like Fields in college. Their offensive scheme was essentially Run on 1st down, RPO on 2nd down, PA deep post on 3rd. Consistently, and because they were so stacked at the WR position he was able to consistently throw it to the first read.
Fields is basically learning how to get past his 2nd and 3rd reads in progression for the first time in the NFL, and it reflected how poor his first 2 seasons have been. This is why he almost immediately takes off and runs when he realizes option #1 is covered.
He could absolutely become a good QB one day, but his transition to the NFL was always going to be extremely difficult because he wasn't properly prepared for it at all.
Manning or Brady could play in that same brain dead system and still be elite QBs. Any of these QBs can click at any time.
I’m not underrating anybody. Look at what Josh Dobbs almost did in week 18 last season.
(07-28-2023, 07:03 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 10:30 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Fields may have the talent and arm capabilities to be a good QB, the problem with him and also the issue for Houston and Stroud is that they both played in the same brain dead offensive system in college. I have never watched QB tape quite like Fields in college. Their offensive scheme was essentially Run on 1st down, RPO on 2nd down, PA deep post on 3rd. Consistently, and because they were so stacked at the WR position he was able to consistently throw it to the first read.
Fields is basically learning how to get past his 2nd and 3rd reads in progression for the first time in the NFL, and it reflected how poor his first 2 seasons have been. This is why he almost immediately takes off and runs when he realizes option #1 is covered.
He could absolutely become a good QB one day, but his transition to the NFL was always going to be extremely difficult because he wasn't properly prepared for it at all.
Manning or Brady could play in that same brain dead system and still be elite QBs. Any of these QBs can click at any time.
I’m not underrating anybody. Look at what Josh Dobbs almost did in week 18 last season.
I agree, they absolutely could. All i'm saying is the transition from playing in an offense that almost has no requirement for you to go past your second read on a pass play to having to deal with NFL defenses where YOU HAVE TO go through your reads, it's an extremely big learning curve. He has talent, but the question is can he acclimate himself, his arm talent means nothing if he can't properly go through his progressions.
(07-28-2023, 07:03 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 10:30 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Fields may have the talent and arm capabilities to be a good QB, the problem with him and also the issue for Houston and Stroud is that they both played in the same brain dead offensive system in college. I have never watched QB tape quite like Fields in college. Their offensive scheme was essentially Run on 1st down, RPO on 2nd down, PA deep post on 3rd. Consistently, and because they were so stacked at the WR position he was able to consistently throw it to the first read.
Fields is basically learning how to get past his 2nd and 3rd reads in progression for the first time in the NFL, and it reflected how poor his first 2 seasons have been. This is why he almost immediately takes off and runs when he realizes option #1 is covered.
He could absolutely become a good QB one day, but his transition to the NFL was always going to be extremely difficult because he wasn't properly prepared for it at all.
Manning or Brady could play in that same brain dead system and still be elite QBs. Any of these QBs can click at any time.
I’m not underrating anybody. Look at what Josh Dobbs almost did in week 18 last season.
WUT?
He threw for 179 yards , 1 TD, 1 INT
That wasn't about Dobbs.
Jags offense struggled to execute the whole game. Should have beat them by 17 points.
(07-28-2023, 07:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 07:03 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Manning or Brady could play in that same brain dead system and still be elite QBs. Any of these QBs can click at any time.
I’m not underrating anybody. Look at what Josh Dobbs almost did in week 18 last season.
WUT?
He threw for 179 yards , 1 TD, 1 INT
That wasn't about Dobbs.
Jags offense struggled to execute the whole game. Should have beat them by 17 points.
Curious what you think about Stroud and Richardson.
(07-28-2023, 07:51 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 07:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]WUT?
He threw for 179 yards , 1 TD, 1 INT
That wasn't about Dobbs.
Jags offense struggled to execute the whole game. Should have beat them by 17 points.
Curious what you think about Stroud and Richardson.
I don't scout college QBs if the Jags don't need a QB
What I've seen of Richardson is more bad than good, don't know [BLEEP] about Stroud besides the reports
(07-28-2023, 07:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 07:51 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Curious what you think about Stroud and Richardson.
I don't scout college QBs if the Jags don't need a QB
What I've seen of Richardson is more bad than good, don't know [BLEEP] about Stroud besides the reports
Stroud is coming out of the same dumbed down offense that Fields came from, however he does have some real arm talent but I'd be shocked if he wasn't anything but a disaster this upcoming season.
Richardson is extremely athletic but his ability to throw a football makes me wonder how anyone would draft him in the first 3 rounds.
(07-28-2023, 07:51 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 07:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]WUT?
He threw for 179 yards , 1 TD, 1 INT
That wasn't about Dobbs.
Jags offense struggled to execute the whole game. Should have beat them by 17 points.
Curious what you think about Stroud and Richardson.
All of these guys have the physical tools. What makes or breaks them is the mental aspect of the game.
(07-28-2023, 09:29 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 07:51 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Curious what you think about Stroud and Richardson.
All of these guys have the physical tools. What makes or breaks them is the mental aspect of the game.
Ye essentially. I think Stroud has a distinct advantage when it comes to his ability to actually throw the ball, he's very accurate. It's just a question of can he handle going from an RPO heavy offense where when he makes a pass it's almost always to his first target, to now having to deal with complex NFL defensive schemes.
With Richardson he has a big arm, but his accuracy leaves a lot to be desired.. he can run, he's a big guy but i'm not confident he has the skill level to actually pass the ball in the NFL.. but again, we'll see.
I'm really not very worried about either of them, I think both the Colts and Texans would have been better off drafting other positions tho... If we had a need at QB i'da passed on both of them.
I think Stroud and Richardson will both bust. Young is going to be the stud of this draft IMO.
Richardson is a freak athlete and has the most upside, but I don't think he will be able to improve his accuracy enough for it to be worth anything.
(07-28-2023, 07:51 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 07:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]WUT?
He threw for 179 yards , 1 TD, 1 INT
That wasn't about Dobbs.
Jags offense struggled to execute the whole game. Should have beat them by 17 points.
Curious what you think about Stroud and Richardson.
I have a sneaky suspicion that Richardson might be Tebow 2.0 in terms of his accuracy and ability to read defenses. To be fair he has a better arm. We’re going to have to see if he can adapt to an NFL-style offense any better than Tebow did.
I'm probably old school with this, but when a guy talks about himself eventually being a hall of famer, I kinda cringe. Even more so when said guy has yet to take a snap in the NFL. In my experience, those are likely going to be famous last words.
(07-29-2023, 05:07 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 07:51 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Curious what you think about Stroud and Richardson.
I have a sneaky suspicion that Richardson might be Tebow 2.0 in terms of his accuracy and ability to read defenses. To be fair he has a better arm. We’re going to have to see if he can adapt to an NFL-style offense any better than Tebow did.
Yeah i've made that comparision too, tho I try not to bring Tebow up on the board as much as possible because I don't want to get the silly Tebow lovers riled up. But yeah, his extremely poor passing ability mixed with his running ability definitely reminded me of old timmy boy.
(07-29-2023, 07:11 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]I'm probably old school with this, but when a guy talks about himself eventually being a hall of famer, I kinda cringe. Even more so when said guy has yet to take a snap in the NFL. In my experience, those are likely going to be famous last words.
speaking of famous last words...
(07-28-2023, 07:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2023, 07:03 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Manning or Brady could play in that same brain dead system and still be elite QBs. Any of these QBs can click at any time.
I’m not underrating anybody. Look at what Josh Dobbs almost did in week 18 last season.
WUT?
He threw for 179 yards , 1 TD, 1 INT
That wasn't about Dobbs.
Jags offense struggled to execute the whole game. Should have beat them by 17 points.
It was about more than the Jaguars struggling to execute, it was about the scheduling of the game and how tennessee essentially got to use a bye the week before and spend two weeks preparing for the Jaguars and resting their best players. The titans have the second best coach in the division, and their coach showed he could have his guys dialed in and ready to execute a gameplan they could win with.
If the Jaguars had two weeks to rest and prepare we would have probably won easily, but the titans caught us tired and with a great gameplan they had taken extra time to emphasize. They were dialed in to execute against a defense in Jax that needs the opponent to make mistakes, and to make sure the Jaguars couldn't just win running what the Jags like to run on offense without great performances. The titans made few mistakes, but just enough of them to let the Jaguars take it.
The Titans game plan was to keep the ball out of Trevor's hands and they did a pretty good job. We won the game and Trevor made enough big time plays to keep us in the game and to have a shot to win. Vrabel is a good coach and the other team wanted to win the game too. We won the game. We won the division. We went to the playoffs. Trevor is a budding super star QB on a Jaguars team that is on the rise^.
Trevor is literally the guy we have all been waiting on and there is still doubt and arguing amongst our fanbase. It's odd. Nobody is above honest criticism but we just picked #1 two years in a row and now we are fresh off a playoff appearance and looking to make another run. Guys want to come to Jax and play with Trevor and the guys here already want to return for the most part. Enjoy. It's a new day.
(07-29-2023, 04:16 PM)TownCenterJag Wrote: [ -> ]The Titans game plan was to keep the ball out of Trevor's hands and they did a pretty good job. We won the game and Trevor made enough big time plays to keep us in the game and to have a shot to win. Vrabel is a good coach and the other team wanted to win the game too. We won the game. We won the division. We went to the playoffs. Trevor is a budding super star QB on a Jaguars team that is on the rise^.
Trevor is literally the guy we have all been waiting on and there is still doubt and arguing amongst our fanbase. It's odd. Nobody is above honest criticism but we just picked #1 two years in a row and now we are fresh off a playoff appearance and looking to make another run. Guys want to come to Jax and play with Trevor and the guys here already want to return for the most part. Enjoy. It's a new day.
Doubt is a strong word, it's more so being cautious at least for me. When it comes to record breaking contracts and all that can really hamper your teams ability to move forward IF that player isn't a bonafide elite QB. He very well may be that, but all I was saying is it's far to premature to label him that right now. I absolutely feel much more hopefull about the direct he is going than I did this time last year, and I expect that to get better with the addition of Ridley and ofcourse him being more comfortable in Dougs offense.
All I was saying is that, it's not a sure fire thing and I wouldn't give him that contract TODAY.
(07-29-2023, 09:18 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (07-29-2023, 04:16 PM)TownCenterJag Wrote: [ -> ]The Titans game plan was to keep the ball out of Trevor's hands and they did a pretty good job. We won the game and Trevor made enough big time plays to keep us in the game and to have a shot to win. Vrabel is a good coach and the other team wanted to win the game too. We won the game. We won the division. We went to the playoffs. Trevor is a budding super star QB on a Jaguars team that is on the rise^.
Trevor is literally the guy we have all been waiting on and there is still doubt and arguing amongst our fanbase. It's odd. Nobody is above honest criticism but we just picked #1 two years in a row and now we are fresh off a playoff appearance and looking to make another run. Guys want to come to Jax and play with Trevor and the guys here already want to return for the most part. Enjoy. It's a new day.
Doubt is a strong word, it's more so being cautious at least for me. When it comes to record breaking contracts and all that can really hamper your teams ability to move forward IF that player isn't a bonafide elite QB. He very well may be that, but all I was saying is it's far to premature to label him that right now. I absolutely feel much more hopefull about the direct he is going than I did this time last year, and I expect that to get better with the addition of Ridley and ofcourse him being more comfortable in Dougs offense.
All I was saying is that, it's not a sure fire thing and I wouldn't give him that contract TODAY.
I can see both sides of the hypothetical but it's just that - a hypothetical. Fortunately, the organization who will ultimately pay him has some time before that shakes out. But we sat through a lot of trash football until this guy and Doug walked through the door. My post was more directed at the arguing/nitpicking and debating his worth. I know fans like to talk contracts and everyone hopes for a team friendly deal. I think Trevor will do that when the time comes (just my guess). But we would be the same old Jags with who knows who coaching and who knows what would be going on at QB if we didn't draft Trevor. If things go as expected then in all likelihood his contract wont even match his value to the team and this city for Shad regardless of what it ends up being.
Im not trying jump in the debate really. It's just getting close to the season and the thread with our Franchise QB's name on it is currently the thread where the most arguing is occurring. Go Jags!
If it was up to me, I'm locking up Lawrence to a Mahomes like deal right now, 10 years. Obviously the money will be more than $450m that Mahomes got on his deal, because the QB market has only gone up, but that's what I'd do. It will look like a lot now, but it'll be a steal in 3+ years when the QB market keeps resetting itself. Just like how Mahomes' contract looks now.
(07-29-2023, 10:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]If it was up to me, I'm locking up Lawrence to a Mahomes like deal right now, 10 years. Obviously the money will be more than $450m that Mahomes got on his deal, because the QB market has only gone up, but that's what I'd do. It will look like a lot now, but it'll be a steal in 3+ years when the QB market keeps resetting itself. Just like how Mahomes' contract looks now.
Mahomes got that deal after posting a 55 TD season followed by a superbowl win. The guy has been in EVERY single AFC title game since we lost to the Pats. That was 6 years ago!.
I love Lawrence, and I hope he does end up getting a big pay day but I just want it to be one he earned. That's all.
(07-29-2023, 11:55 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (07-29-2023, 10:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]If it was up to me, I'm locking up Lawrence to a Mahomes like deal right now, 10 years. Obviously the money will be more than $450m that Mahomes got on his deal, because the QB market has only gone up, but that's what I'd do. It will look like a lot now, but it'll be a steal in 3+ years when the QB market keeps resetting itself. Just like how Mahomes' contract looks now.
Mahomes got that deal after posting a 55 TD season followed by a superbowl win. The guy has been in EVERY single AFC title game since we lost to the Pats. That was 6 years ago!.
I love Lawrence, and I hope he does end up getting a big pay day but I just want it to be one he earned. That's all.
And?
You've been wrong about Lawrence from the start and continue to be. He's going to more than earn his contract and the longer they wait to pay him, the more it's going to cost.