(12-27-2023, 01:25 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2023, 12:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Why do people try so hard to place blame other than where it goes? It's dumbfounding.
I think you need to go a bit deeper and look at the causes of problems and why a team is underperforming.
Things you can blame on poor coaching-
- Communication. If players are running the wrong routes or screwing up their assignments.
- Technique. This seems obvious.
- Preparation. It's one thing to get surprised by the other team, but if a team or player is straight out unprepared for a game that's all on the coaches. TLaw said earlier this year he was unprepared for a game. He's a veteran, but it's still unacceptable coaching.
- Not realizing the limitations of players. Some players just can't do certain [BLEEP]. If over the course of a season a coach is unable to recognize a players fault and scheme around it, it's all on them.
Inversely, if a coach can't find a way to exploit a players strengths, then that's all on them.
5. Discipline. If a team is getting a [BLEEP] ton of avoidable penalties, it's all on the coaches.
Now ask yourself all these listed and tell me if Jags dont fit in these scenarios.
What happens when you only have a 10 pound bag though and you keep trying to fill it with 15 pounds of [BLEEP]?
(12-27-2023, 12:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2023, 12:29 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Then it's still on the coaches if a player isn't able to get the correct play call do to inexperience then a timeout should be called or audibles should be off the table.
Why do people try so hard to place blame other than where it goes? It's dumbfounding.
So Doug is trying hard to place blame on people other then where it belongs, cause he's the one who said that was on the coaches not the players.
(12-27-2023, 02:13 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2023, 12:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Why do people try so hard to place blame other than where it goes? It's dumbfounding.
So Doug is trying hard to place blame on people other then where it belongs, cause he's the one who said that was on the coaches not the players.
No, I'm not questioning the actual expert, just all the amatuers who don't have a clue what they're talking about.
(12-27-2023, 02:13 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2023, 12:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Why do people try so hard to place blame other than where it goes? It's dumbfounding.
So Doug is trying hard to place blame on people other then where it belongs, cause he's the one who said that was on the coaches not the players.
Listen to all of Doug's pressers since the Bucs game. He talks about accountability for coaches AND players.
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
I'm of the firm opinion that what we are seeing is 80% player error (or more) despite having been coached up more than satisfactorily.
If you want to debate some coaching vs player talent along the OL I'd listen. Maybe the scheme and the prep need changing.
If you want to question whether the receivers are getting everything they need from the current staff - I'd listen. The mistakes have been plentiful enough to wonder about the preparation.
But I think the VAST majority of what we are seeing comes down to player errors. (and injury, and poor talent level in places)
We've seen this secondary play worlds better than this.
We've seen this QB string together multiple games with only 2 or 3 small errors and minimal ball security issues.
We've seen many games with only one or two dropped passes instead of 4 or 5.
We've seen this OL at least give the RB a crease 6 or 7 times in a game despite the floundering on other attempts.
Someone had to coach them up well enough to do that ^
But now it isn't happening on the football field.
It all points to player error.
The plays are the plays. We've seen this same scheme function MUCH better than this on both sides of the ball.
I don't see a glaring X's and O's problem outside of the fact the OL has forced much of the playbook to be tossed out the window because they simply can't execute those plays.
(12-27-2023, 10:17 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/...7883990134
That's insane. The total plays for Lawrence compared to the rest of these passers is insane. It's an air raid offense at this point with everything on him to move the football.
Let's play one dimensional football with a well below average offensive line against quality, top twelve defenses in the NFL.
That is mind numbingly frustrating and it's no damn wonder the kid leads in turnovers. He's out there being asked to make anywhere between 100 - 150 MORE plays than these other passers with better lines and balance.
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(12-27-2023, 10:41 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2023, 10:17 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/...7883990134
That's insane. The total plays for Lawrence compared to the rest of these passers is insane. It's an air raid offense at this point with everything on him to move the football.
Let's play one dimensional football with a well below average offensive line against quality, top twelve defenses in the NFL.
That is mind numbingly frustrating and it's no damn wonder the kid leads in turnovers. He's out there being asked to make anywhere between 100 - 150 MORE plays than these other passers with better lines and balance.
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Yup, but I'm the homer when I keep bringing up the fact that he is being forced to try and backpack this team around. If he doesn't play absolutely perfect, then we're basically screwed because nobody else around him can seem to make a play.
He's being forced to play hero ball because he has to carry this [BLEEP] show.
(12-27-2023, 08:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2023, 02:13 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]So Doug is trying hard to place blame on people other then where it belongs, cause he's the one who said that was on the coaches not the players.
Listen to all of Doug's pressers since the Bucs game. He talks about accountability for coaches AND players.
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
I'm of the firm opinion that what we are seeing is 80% player error (or more) despite having been coached up more than satisfactorily.
If you want to debate some coaching vs player talent along the OL I'd listen. Maybe the scheme and the prep need changing.
If you want to question whether the receivers are getting everything they need from the current staff - I'd listen. The mistakes have been plentiful enough to wonder about the preparation.
But I think the VAST majority of what we are seeing comes down to player errors. (and injury, and poor talent level in places)
We've seen this secondary play worlds better than this.
We've seen this QB string together multiple games with only 2 or 3 small errors and minimal ball security issues.
We've seen many games with only one or two dropped passes instead of 4 or 5.
We've seen this OL at least give the RB a crease 6 or 7 times in a game despite the floundering on other attempts.
Someone had to coach them up well enough to do that ^
But now it isn't happening on the football field.
It all points to player error.
The plays are the plays. We've seen this same scheme function MUCH better than this on both sides of the ball.
I don't see a glaring X's and O's problem outside of the fact the OL has forced much of the playbook to be tossed out the window because they simply can't execute those plays.
My apologies for showing late to the party (fambly issues be crazy), but when Trevor made the news for calling out the team "It's like we don't even practice" (or to that effect), first thing I thought was that he was calling guys out for screwing up routes, missing blocks, or not knowing the plays. You can tell he's getting frustrated at the way the team looks on gameday.
Could also be that the coaches don't have those go-to plays in pocket when they need a quick call, For sure Trevor gets frustrated when we have to call TO to avoid delays or end up taking the penalties.
There's disarray among the team. Injuries will do that, but a lot of guys have been on the field pretty reliably since week 1. Doug needs to find the cause and get it fixed, because I gotta feeling that the team's loyalty will be to QB first and coaches second, especially if we end up on the hook for a huge contract. The fix may not come until the offseason, but they can't keep the current course and expect any better, plain and simple.
(09-24-2023, 04:19 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2023, 04:10 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]No line protection for sure. Trevor missed some throws and there was drops. Commentator even mentioned he missed open guys they even showed some replays but maybe hes getting gun shy from the protection idk. I just know Stroud looked much better today.
I mean my goodness … on tank dells two deep balls they were complete busts ! No safety in the middle of the field corner outside leverage so he can just run a skinny post and completely get behind the defense ? Are we serious? And the TD what the heck have we never played a bunch set before ?
Multiple other receivers with no one in the vicinity and 0 pressure on a Backup o line ?
Watch stroud will end up looking like every other rookie QB for most of the rest of the year ….
We just managed to make a game so easy for a rookie it looked like he was playing against Rutgers when he was at Ohio state…
Pathetic .
Heads need to roll for this . At least figure out who wants to man up and do their fricking jobs . What these grown men are getting paid to sticking do .
(12-28-2023, 09:48 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/qbklass/status/17401...915L-t18Xg
https://twitter.com/qbklass/status/17401...915L-t18Xg
https://twitter.com/qbklass/status/17401...915L-t18Xg
Yeah looking like people who don't want him to play may get their wish and hopefully they come out appreciating him more...
[quote pid="1564840" dateline="1695586799"]
Yeah looking like people who don't want him to play may get their wish and hopefully they come out appreciating him more...
[/quote]
It isn't about not wanting him to play. It's about being smart long term.
Clearly he has an laundry list of injuries. Putting Lawrence out there in his condition with this line isn't smart.
(09-24-2023, 04:19 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2023, 04:10 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]No line protection for sure. Trevor missed some throws and there was drops. Commentator even mentioned he missed open guys they even showed some replays but maybe hes getting gun shy from the protection idk. I just know Stroud looked much better today.
I mean my goodness … on tank dells two deep balls they were complete busts ! No safety in the middle of the field corner outside leverage so he can just run a skinny post and completely get behind the defense ? Are we serious? And the TD what the heck have we never played a bunch set before ?
Multiple other receivers with no one in the vicinity and 0 pressure on a Backup o line ?
Watch stroud will end up looking like every other rookie QB for most of the rest of the year ….
We just managed to make a game so easy for a rookie it looked like he was playing against Rutgers when he was at Ohio state…
Pathetic .
Heads need to roll for this . At least figure out who wants to man up and do their fricking jobs . What these grown men are getting paid to sticking do .
(12-28-2023, 11:02 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ][quote pid="1564840" dateline="1695586799"]
Yeah looking like people who don't want him to play may get their wish and hopefully they come out appreciating him more...
It isn't about not wanting him to play. It's about being smart long term.
Clearly he has an laundry list of injuries. Putting Lawrence out there in his condition with this line isn't smart.
[/quote]
I just think if he doesn't play we have no chance.
Too bad they don’t give cooks more of a look. He gets open and looks fast. He’s tall. He has a good connection with Lawrence from the limited plays we have seen. Again he gets open.
(12-29-2023, 04:31 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Too bad they don’t give cooks more of a look. He gets open and looks fast. He’s tall. He has a good connection with Lawrence from the limited plays we have seen. Again he gets open.
It is interesting. One would think he knows the route tree by now, but maybe not. Maybe he's just not as good as he's looked in the limited action we've seen him in, or maybe he blocks very poorly on the wr screens we run so much of.
Given how good he's looked in limited field time it is a little surprising we see Tim Jones so much more than him.
(12-29-2023, 04:31 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Too bad they don’t give cooks more of a look. He gets open and looks fast. He’s tall. He has a good connection with Lawrence from the limited plays we have seen. Again he gets open.
Last weeks loss was the first time they really made him part of the offense, but then they essentially pulled him in the second half.
Not sure what that was about - but he made the most of his limited snaps and targets.
In the past - Pederson has rewarded guys who do that with more snaps.
If they didn't pull him last week due to some major screw up we are unaware of - he probably gets more looks this week.
(12-29-2023, 09:56 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2023, 04:31 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Too bad they don’t give cooks more of a look. He gets open and looks fast. He’s tall. He has a good connection with Lawrence from the limited plays we have seen. Again he gets open.
Last weeks loss was the first time they really made him part of the offense, but then they essentially pulled him in the second half.
Not sure what that was about - but he made the most of his limited snaps and targets.
In the past - Pederson has rewarded guys who do that with more snaps.
If they didn't pull him last week due to some major screw up we are unaware of - he probably gets more looks this week.
My guess is that he ran an incorrect route towards the end of the first half. He definitely deserves more playing time. I hope they don't give up on him as they did with Allen Lazard, another tall receiver whom the Packers took off our practice squad. Of course, Lazard developed a great rapport with Aaron Rodgers and was to be reunited with him in New York prior to Rodgers' injury. Lazard was given a $44 million contract, not bad for a guy who was an undrafted free agent!
(12-29-2023, 11:14 AM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2023, 09:56 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Last weeks loss was the first time they really made him part of the offense, but then they essentially pulled him in the second half.
Not sure what that was about - but he made the most of his limited snaps and targets.
In the past - Pederson has rewarded guys who do that with more snaps.
If they didn't pull him last week due to some major screw up we are unaware of - he probably gets more looks this week.
My guess is that he ran an incorrect route towards the end of the first half. He definitely deserves more playing time. I hope they don't give up on him as they did with Allen Lazard, another tall receiver whom the Packers took off our practice squad. Of course, Lazard developed a great rapport with Aaron Rodgers and was to be reunited with him in New York prior to Rodgers' injury. Lazard was given a $44 million contract, not bad for a guy who was an undrafted free agent!
Good for Lazard getting paid but he rode the coattails of rodgers. He was sooooooo bad this year they benched him for 2 undrafted free agent WR.