(12-25-2023, 05:27 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:44 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Agree, the beat thing that can help the defense right now is a offense. The defense gets worn down by half time because the offense can't even get a FG. Even when the D get a stop or a turnover, even if they give the offense the ball on the opponents side of the field, the defense knows they won't even fer a FG out of it. It would be hard to get motivated when they know that's the case and how bad this offense is
While that's good in theory and could have some truth, but then why do they constantly let opposing Offenses walk right down the field on the very first possession of the game? Are they already worn down and tired from the pre-game warm up?
It’s cliched, but it’s a mental thing.
You’ve lost four in a row. Your confidence is shot.
This team desperately needs a W, even an ugly W, to show they can still win
I still say the "generational" tag is the biggest issue with this discussion. There are a number of people who are merely stating that lawrence isn't the generational qb but still think he is our franchise guy. And those people get lumped in with those who argue he sucks and we should move on... which is crazy.
I know we all wanted him to be the next Elway, Brady, Manning, etc.... and he isn't that. But he is good enough to lead us to the playoffs and win games in the postseason. And he just turned 24. He doesn't appear to be good enough yet to elevate a bad team around him. But he also doesn't need elite players to put up numbers and win games.
I do think this season is spiraling around him but much of it isn't on him. I know the numbers have been said but they are worth repeating. 3rd worst oline per pff before the bucs game. Bottom of the league in rushing epa. Most epa lost due to drops. Dead last in epa on wr te screens. Literally the only thing we do well is when lawrence throws down the field. Top 10 passing team in epa when you exclude the screens. Of all the problems we have had on offense there are a number of things you should point to before qb. Oline, coaching, play calling. player acquisition, etc...
What would the Jags record be right now if Mahomes was the QB instead of TL? I see where they only scored 14 against the raiders and they are 8-6. Would this board be howling if TL only scored 14 against the Raiders?
(12-25-2023, 05:52 PM)PV=nRT Wrote: [ -> ]What would the Jags record be right now if Mahomes was the QB instead of TL? I see where they only scored 14 against the raiders and they are 8-6. Would this board be howling if TL only scored 14 against the Raiders?
Mahomes right now is exhibit A on why these trolls who want to declare Trevor “done” are idiots
(12-25-2023, 05:52 PM)PV=nRT Wrote: [ -> ]What would the Jags record be right now if Mahomes was the QB instead of TL? I see where they only scored 14 against the raiders and they are 8-6. Would this board be howling if TL only scored 14 against the Raiders?
No if before that he gave us 2 rings, won 2 MVPs and a season with 50 PASSING TDs.
Lawrence is nowhere near Mahomes, not now not ever.
No one outside of some major homers here would take Lawrence over Mahomes.
(12-25-2023, 06:08 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 05:52 PM)PV=nRT Wrote: [ -> ]What would the Jags record be right now if Mahomes was the QB instead of TL? I see where they only scored 14 against the raiders and they are 8-6. Would this board be howling if TL only scored 14 against the Raiders?
No if before that he gave us 2 rings, won 2 MVPs and a season with 50 PASSING TDs.
Lawrence is nowhere near Mahomes, not now not ever.
No one outside of some major homers here would take Lawrence over Mahomes.
Lawrence is far and away the best QB this franchise has ever had (and will probably ever have) and there's still people who want to replace him.
So yes, those same people would be crying about Mahomes as well.
(12-25-2023, 06:15 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 06:08 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]No if before that he gave us 2 rings, won 2 MVPs and a season with 50 PASSING TDs.
Lawrence is nowhere near Mahomes, not now not ever.
No one outside of some major homers here would take Lawrence over Mahomes.
Lawrence is far and away the best QB this franchise has ever had (and will probably ever have) and there's still people who want to replace him.
So yes, those same people would be crying about Mahomes as well.
He isn't better than Brunnell yet.
(12-25-2023, 06:17 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 06:15 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence is far and away the best QB this franchise has ever had (and will probably ever have) and there's still people who want to replace him.
So yes, those same people would be crying about Mahomes as well.
He isn't better than Brunnell yet.
He is better than Brunell. Could you imagine Lawrence with Jimmy, McCardell and Freddy T... Good god.
(12-25-2023, 06:17 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 06:15 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence is far and away the best QB this franchise has ever had (and will probably ever have) and there's still people who want to replace him.
So yes, those same people would be crying about Mahomes as well.
He isn't better than Brunell yet.
I am not sure either.
Anyway, yes, there is no way we get rid of Lawrence right now. Like I said, the guy is good enough and he is still young, had some good games and
he can still improve. What we need is give him, a better O-line and maybe a WR (doesn't need to be elite, just a good one).
(12-25-2023, 05:52 PM)PV=nRT Wrote: [ -> ]What would the Jags record be right now if Mahomes was the QB instead of TL? I see where they only scored 14 against the raiders and they are 8-6. Would this board be howling if TL only scored 14 against the Raiders?
Chiefs oline has the 3rd best pass blocking grades per pff as of last week. And they have a hall of fame tight end. And yet the best qb in the league over the last 5 years looked lost today. And they still have one of the better defenses in the league keeping them in games.
If it can happen to the best qb in the league it can happen to anyone
(12-25-2023, 06:19 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 06:17 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He isn't better than Brunnell yet.
He is better than Brunell. Could you imagine Lawrence with Jimmy, McCardell and Freddy T... Good god.
And an offensive line that can actually block.
If Trevor has been the QB here in 99 he'd have thrown twice as many TDs as Brunell did.
(12-25-2023, 06:04 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 05:52 PM)PV=nRT Wrote: [ -> ]What would the Jags record be right now if Mahomes was the QB instead of TL? I see where they only scored 14 against the raiders and they are 8-6. Would this board be howling if TL only scored 14 against the Raiders?
Mahomes right now is exhibit A on why these trolls who want to declare Trevor “done” are idiots
Strong argument but for the fact that Mahomes is a 2x Super Bowl champ, 2x Super Bowl MVP, 1x Offensive Player of the Year and 5x Pro Bowler. Oh, yeah, he was 24 when he won that first Super Bowl.
So, yeah, other than the fact that Mahomes had accumulated a record worthy of HOF consideration at the age of 24 and was a HOF lock at 27, the comparison is perfect. Yes, I think comparing TL to Mahomes in a favourable light is a very smart move.
Also, for the record, I did not slag TL from the start. I said he started slow and needed some great QB coaching to turn it around (bad foot work, poor pocket skills, inability to read the field). All of those short comings remain. I wanted him to succeed because I have one player at Jacksonville that I am cheering for and TL is key to his success. But the delicate flowers on these boards, particularly a certain NY moderator, are so incapable of discussing critical observations like adults, that it’s obvious childishness rules the day here. That’s fine with me.
TL is benched. CJ takes over to the end of the year.
(12-25-2023, 06:19 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 06:17 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He isn't better than Brunnell yet.
He is better than Brunell. Could you imagine Lawrence with Jimmy, McCardell and Freddy T... Good god.
It wouldn't matter cuz they don't have Tony, Leon and Quentin Neujahr.
(12-25-2023, 06:19 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 06:17 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He isn't better than Brunnell yet.
He is better than Brunell. Could you imagine Lawrence with Jimmy, McCardell and Freddy T... Good god.
Lawrence has tons of potential but don’t fall prey to recency bias. Brunell at his peak was considerably better than Lawrence is right now. He was surrounded by some talented players but he was more accurate and more mobile. He also seemed to be able to diagnose defenses better than Lawrence at this point.
(12-25-2023, 06:31 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 06:19 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]He is better than Brunell. Could you imagine Lawrence with Jimmy, McCardell and Freddy T... Good god.
And an offensive line that can actually block.
If Trevor has been the QB here in 99 he'd have thrown twice as many TDs as Brunell did.
Doubtful. Because Taylor would have been scoring from the red zone.
(12-25-2023, 06:35 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 06:04 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Mahomes right now is exhibit A on why these trolls who want to declare Trevor “done” are idiots
Strong argument but for the fact that Mahomes is a 2x Super Bowl champ, 2x Super Bowl MVP, 1x Offensive Player of the Year and 5x Pro Bowler. Oh, yeah, he was 24 when he won that first Super Bowl.
So, yeah, other than the fact that Mahomes had accumulated a record worthy of HOF consideration at the age of 24 and was a HOF lock at 27, the comparison is perfect. Yes, I think comparing TL to Mahomes in a favourable light is a very smart move.
Also, for the record, I did not slag TL from the start. I said he started slow and needed some great QB coaching to turn it around (bad foot work, poor pocket skills, inability to read the field). All of those short comings remain. I wanted him to succeed because I have one player at Jacksonville that I am cheering for and TL is key to his success. But the delicate flowers on these boards, particularly a certain NY moderator, are so incapable of discussing critical observations like adults, that it’s obvious childishness rules the day here. That’s fine with me.
TL is benched. CJ takes over to the end of the year.
So what would the Jags record be right now if Mahomet was their QB instead of TLAW?
Saying Mahomes also struggles without much wr talent doesn't mean one is saying lawrence is as good as mahomes. Point is if mahomes isn't good enough to overcome why should lawrence be able to? And mahomes situation is still better than lawrence. Much better oline.
(12-25-2023, 03:39 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]There's still only a handful of people considering him a bust. But when people start pointing out his issues we see the homers jump in to defend him and make excuses for his bad play.
Trevor is still our QB, and I wouldn't call him a bust or release or trade him. Would I pay him top QB money right now? Not a chance. Do I think he needs help? Absolutely, because this O-Line is absolutely terrible. Do I think he has some bad decision-making issues that need to be resolved? 100% and his turnover history will prove that.
A lot of the posters here like to think that the people pointing out Trevor's issues want him to fail. That makes no sense because that would set this franchise back. We want him to succeed, but we also want to voice when he is [BLEEP] up just like we do with other players.
I agree with you about the fact that there are only a handful of people on this board calling him a bust. Also, there is nothing wrong at all with fans who post negative things about Trevor when he messes up and that this does not mean they say he is a bust. He is the first one to critique himself after a bad game and this is one of the things I like about him.
The one area we differ on Trevor, I believe, is regarding what it should take to extend his contract. I have seen enough by now to believe he will consistently be a top 5-7 quarterback over the next decade, barring injury. Very few quarterbacks possess his combination of arm strength, leadership, toughness and work ethic. There's no debating that he needs to take better care of the ball and he doesn't always see the entire field causing him to miss open receivers. That being said, the team should try to extend his contract once this season is over regardless of how this season plays out. All top quarterbacks, and athletes in general, are vastly overpaid which is another topic too big to get into. However, if you want to have a team that consistently reaches the playoffs, it is imperative to have the right quarterback. If Justin Herbert, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are considered good enough to get multi-year deals in the $500 million range, then so is Lawrence. These 3 all have their own flaws yet that didn't stop their teams from extending them. Even Mahomes, despite clearly being the best current quarterback, has had a tough year due to not having the supporting cast he has become used to. The longer the team waits to extend him, the more it will cost the team.
Sounds like he has a sprained right shoulder. Dang.
(12-25-2023, 08:03 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Sounds like he has a sprained right shoulder. Dang.
Thanks to our idiotic coach
(12-25-2023, 08:03 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Sounds like he has a sprained right shoulder. Dang.
He needs to sit this week. We’re at the precipice of destroying his confidence for good
(12-25-2023, 07:21 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Saying Mahomes also struggles without much wr talent doesn't mean one is saying lawrence is as good as mahomes. Point is if mahomes isn't good enough to overcome why should lawrence be able to? And mahomes situation is still better than lawrence. Much better oline.
Exactly the point, but some would rather attack a straw man argument that we’re making them two to be equal players.