Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(04-28-2024, 02:36 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 02:25 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Meh

Troll-job question.

You can unequivocally state that 24 starting QBs in the league are going to be negatively affected if the wrong starting lineman (linemen) get(s) hurt. 

Ezra will be the starting LG barring some unexpected issue, and he should end up being an upgrade when healthy.

You can ignore that if it helps you troll harder, but from my angle it makes you look stupid.

I truly would like to know the answer to the above question, and I'm sure I'm not alone. It's really not a troll question, if anything it's a question to reinforce my view that IOL depth is a major problem, and YOU agree with me to some extent in your draft grade answer:

NYC4jags Wrote:I went B- since as I, like others, would have preferred more OL depth/competition.

It's completely irrelevant.

The guy played through injury and struggled 

They sat him the week before in a week 17 game where they rolled the weakest opponent on their schedule hoping he'd heal up some. He still wasn't himself in week 18. 

What is the point you think you are making here?

We upgraded LG. Yes, I wish we added one more mid round piece of depth/competiton. But I'm not the one being willfully ignorant about LG. That would be you.

OK, the Jaguars will have a better line if Cleveland comes back healthy.

So here's a different tact, where do you rank the 2023 OL from #1-32. And where would you predict them to rank in 2024 with a healthy Cleveland and the addition of Morse, with minimal change to depth.

(04-28-2024, 03:32 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]OK, the Jaguars will have a better line if Cleveland comes back healthy.

So here's a different tact, where do you rank the 2023 OL from #1-32. And where would you predict them to rank in 2024 with a healthy Cleveland and the addition of Morse, with minimal change to depth.

They should go from 32 to 18-20th. 

They addressed the two weakest positions on the line. 

Run game goes from zero to at least functional - and pass pro improvement from two spots that gave up lots of pressure buys TL more time to work.

Your assumption on depth is just that, BTW. No telling how that shakes out by September.

This is the year Trevor needs to make the jump.

The 4th year is when Ben Roethlisberger's numbers took a big jump. The previous year Big Ben had had his most INT of his career.

Hopefully Trevor sees a similar jump.

Guys, guys, guys...  there are multiple scenarios that could play out between now and week 1 that would help fortify the O-line.  It's possible Fortner really puts his mind to it and gets in the gym full time this offseason and increases his overall strength.  He could stroll into the building during camp with his shirt off looking like this, you never know:

(04-28-2024, 03:47 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Guys, guys, guys...  there are multiple scenarios that could play out between now and week 1 that would help fortify the O-line.  It's possible Fortner really puts his mind to it and gets in the gym full time this offseason and increases his overall strength.  He could stroll into the building during camp with his shirt off looking like this, you never know:

Fortner needs to use Cisco's off season program.

All I can say is that they had better go back into free agency and buy a successful guard. Cleveland wasn’t the answer last year. He was another turnstile up front. And for my money, fix RG and backup center. This wing and prayer crap hasn’t panned out in three years. If you want to lay it all on “they were injured “ if you want to. It’s either bad talent, bad scheme, or both.


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(04-28-2024, 04:39 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]All I can say is that they had better go back into free agency and buy a successful guard.  Cleveland wasn’t the answer last year. He was another turnstile up front. And for my money, fix RG and  backup center. This wing and prayer crap hasn’t panned out in three years. If you want to lay it all on “they were injured “ if you want to. It’s either bad talent, bad scheme, or both.


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Cleveland was playing hurt last year. We rushed him back to the field because we had already gone through 4 horrible LGs at that point including a failed "tackle to guard" experiment with Little. 

I bet Ezra Cleveland looks good in '24 after an offseason to get right. He played well in Minnesota before the injury. 

I would still like to see another interior player added before camp , during camp, or after teams with good lines cut down their roster.

(04-28-2024, 04:18 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 03:47 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Guys, guys, guys...  there are multiple scenarios that could play out between now and week 1 that would help fortify the O-line.  It's possible Fortner really puts his mind to it and gets in the gym full time this offseason and increases his overall strength.  He could stroll into the building during camp with his shirt off looking like this, you never know:

Fortner needs to use Cisco's off season program.

Did you see Walker in the Hunt preview?  Walker is naturally a monster but he looks much more jacked.  I'm thinking Walker has another career year and has a All Pro type year .

(04-28-2024, 02:14 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 01:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The "starting LG" wasn't until even on the team until week ten and didn't start until week 11 and he played through an injury that he probably should not have. 

Trying to act like that position isn't improved by re-signing him is pretty stupid. He has a track record of top tier guard performance prior to the injury and there's nothing to suggest he can't return to form.

But you just keep blurting out the same bull [BLEEP] ignoring the signing completely. 

What Pedreron is counting on is that Morse will be what he's always been - which is [BLEEP] miles and miles better than Fortner. And that Cleveland will be what he was pre-injury. Which is miles better than any of the 4 other LGs we tried to start last year. 

That ^ in itself will return the run game to some degree of functionality as those positions have been the clear weak spots for 2 years ongoing. (I started a thread on LG/C poor play in 2022 mid-season) 

The under 2 second pressures coming from the gap responsibility of those two - and their constant push backward into the pocket was a major problem for Lawrence's nearly complete lack of a pocket last year. He should not be off script as often as a result of these moves. 

The whole "they didn't do anything but add a Center with concussion history" is disingenuous or ignorant. 
Take your pick.

Hehe, I was waiting for this was coming from NYC4jags again.  The question is did Ezra Cleveland start in the final game^?  The Jaguars resigned Cleveland, they didn't ADD him.  The Jags went 3-5 while he was starting.  Every teams OL will be healthier next season, there is almost no OLmen who's 100% at the end of the season.

BUT the question was "IF one of your IOL gets hurt..."

I'm trying to figure out how the Jags went 3-5 when Ezera was starting considering he only started 5 games, and interestingly enough, his first start TL, Little, and Kirk all got injured and Cam didn't play.

His second start he only played 34% of the snaps, with TL still suffering from his ankle, Kirk out, Tyson Campbell out and Cam out.

His third start TL was still banged up, no Kirk, no Campbell,  no Cisco, and no Cam.

His 4th start TL still banged up, no Kirk, no Zay, and no Cam.

His 5th and final start TL was still struggling with injury to the point he didn't even play the previous game and still no Kirk.

You make it seem very eager to hold Cleveland accountable for the Jags losing towards the end of the season when you can see the team was plagued by injuries and in spite of this we still almost made the playoffs.

Players production is not static from year to year, sure everyone's Oline will be healthy, but it doesn't mean that there won't be players in decline or have bad seasons and other players get better. 

We can play the what if game with all sorts of positions. What if Kirk goes down again, our offense took a nose dive once he was out. What about Engram? No one on this roster can match his production at TE. What if Josh Allen goes down? There isn't a player behind him who could come close to his production.

Young talent develops. You are already making the assumption that are back ups will be static players with no possibility of improvement with further development and experience.

You don't need to worry about what kind of depth we have in April. You wait and see in preseason what they bring to the table this year. Then you have reason to worry or possibly not worry.

(04-28-2024, 05:20 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 02:14 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]Hehe, I was waiting for this was coming from NYC4jags again.  The question is did Ezra Cleveland start in the final game^?  The Jaguars resigned Cleveland, they didn't ADD him.  The Jags went 3-5 while he was starting.  Every teams OL will be healthier next season, there is almost no OLmen who's 100% at the end of the season.

BUT the question was "IF one of your IOL gets hurt..."

I'm trying to figure out how the Jags went 3-5 when Ezera was starting considering he only started 5 games, and interestingly enough, his first start TL, Little, and Kirk all got injured and Cam didn't play.

His second start he only played 34% of the snaps, with TL still suffering from his ankle, Kirk out, Tyson Campbell out and Cam out.

His third start TL was still banged up, no Kirk, no Campbell,  no Cisco, and no Cam.

His 4th start TL still banged up, no Kirk, no Zay, and no Cam.

His 5th and final start TL was still struggling with injury to the point he didn't even play the previous game and still no Kirk.

You make it seem very eager to hold Cleveland accountable for the Jags losing towards the end of the season when you can see the team was plagued by injuries and in spite of this we still almost made the playoffs.

Players production is not static from year to year, sure everyone's Oline will be healthy, but it doesn't mean that there won't be players in decline or have bad seasons and other players get better. 

We can play the what if game with all sorts of positions. What if Kirk goes down again, our offense took a nose dive once he was out. What about Engram? No one on this roster can match his production at TE. What if Josh Allen goes down? There isn't a player behind him who could come close to his production.

Young talent develops. You are already making the assumption that are back ups will be static players with no possibility of improvement with further development and experience.

You don't need to worry about what kind of depth we have in April. You wait and see in preseason what they bring to the table this year. Then you have reason to worry or possibly not worry.

Thank you

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(04-28-2024, 02:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 02:36 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]I truly would like to know the answer to the above question, and I'm sure I'm not alone. It's really not a troll question, if anything it's a question to reinforce my view that IOL depth is a major problem, and YOU agree with me to some extent in your draft grade answer:

It's completely irrelevant.

The guy played through injury and struggled 

They sat him the week before in a week 17 game where they rolled the weakest opponent on their schedule hoping he'd heal up some. He still wasn't himself in week 18. 

What is the point you think you are making here?

We upgraded LG. Yes, I wish we added one more mid round piece of depth/competiton. But I'm not the one being willfully ignorant about LG. That would be you.

Pointing out that you keep ignoring an upgrade at LG as if it didn't happen  - while also wishing the Jags had added yet another interior piece are not mutually exclusive. One does not affect the other at all.  

I can point out your omission AND wish we'd added another player.
Which we very well still may add. 

You troll-job is weak today, pal.

(04-28-2024, 04:18 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 03:47 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Guys, guys, guys...  there are multiple scenarios that could play out between now and week 1 that would help fortify the O-line.  It's possible Fortner really puts his mind to it and gets in the gym full time this offseason and increases his overall strength.  He could stroll into the building during camp with his shirt off looking like this, you never know:

Fortner needs to use Cisco's off season program.

Fortner needs chaissons workout regime

So is Walker Little basically on the way out if Javon Foster is being brought on to be a swing Tackle and Little cannot play guard?

(04-28-2024, 08:40 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]So is Walker Little basically on the way out if Javon Foster is being brought on to be a swing Tackle and Little cannot play guard?

I think with Little coming up on free agency they have decided to not pay him. Of course, they could make him the starter and not re-sign Cam.

(04-28-2024, 08:40 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]So is Walker Little basically on the way out if Javon Foster is being brought on to be a swing Tackle and Little cannot play guard?

Walker Little and Cam Robinson will both be FAs after this season. It's a high likely hood that at least one, if not both of them are gone after this season.

Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Anton move to LT and Foster take over RT next year.

Either way, no reason to run Little off this season. Need the depth regardless. Cam has only played a full season once in his career.

(04-28-2024, 09:07 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 08:40 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]So is Walker Little basically on the way out if Javon Foster is being brought on to be a swing Tackle and Little cannot play guard?

Walker Little and Cam Robinson will both be FAs after this season. It's a high likely hood that at least one, if not both of them are gone after this season.

Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Anton move to LT and Foster take over RT next year.

Either way, no reason to run Little off this season. Need the depth regardless. Cam has only played a full season once in his career.

But you have limited roster spots, if you carry 9 OL but 2 are limited to only backing up tackle, that makes it difficult for the other OL positions. If you carry 10 OL, then now they have issues with the rosters spots given we are all taking about if they will have 4 RB's. 2 KR's and excess WR's, etc.

(04-28-2024, 10:49 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 09:07 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Walker Little and Cam Robinson will both be FAs after this season. It's a high likely hood that at least one, if not both of them are gone after this season.

Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Anton move to LT and Foster take over RT next year.

Either way, no reason to run Little off this season. Need the depth regardless. Cam has only played a full season once in his career.

But you have limited roster spots, if you carry 9 OL but 2 are limited to only backing up tackle, that makes it difficult for the other OL positions. If you carry 10 OL, then now they have issues with the rosters spots given we are all taking about if they will have 4 RB's. 2 KR's and excess WR's, etc.

10 OL, 4 RB, 6 WR is 20 Offensive spots. Add 2 QBs onto that is 22 and 3 TEs is 25.

Whether it's good value or not, Little can play OG if need be, which gives him value. Don't really want to see him at OG, but it is what it is, if need be.

(04-28-2024, 05:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 04:18 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote: [ -> ]Fortner needs to use Cisco's off season program.

Did you see Walker in the Hunt preview?  Walker is naturally a monster but he looks much more jacked.  I'm thinking Walker has another career year and has an All Pro type year .

He Will lead the league in claps per game and sips of Gatorade per game.

(04-28-2024, 12:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 12:48 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]Trying not to repeat myself and others, but I feel like the Jags biggest team issue is that Pederson truly believes that last years starting 5, plus Morse (who as Caldrac posted, "Who [was] honestly was middling by all accounts in Buffalo last year.") is good enough.

"Our best five didn't start until the season finale."  -- Pederson.  It seems the only OL draft pick is a swing-tackle to compete with Little (???).  Now Pederson knows more about football than any one here, so he HAS to expect that there will be OL injuries during the 17 game season.  If I could summon a question into his press conference (and get an honest answer), it would be this, "If one of your IOL gets hurt during the 2024, do you expect Trevor to have enough time to pass the ball to his 2nd or 3rd WR read?"

The starting 5 is good enough.  The problem will be if Morse gets hurt and Fortner has to come in.

"good enough" should never, ever be the goal.

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(04-28-2024, 01:01 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 12:56 PM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]Yea good enough is what we want for our franchise QB that was injured last year.

Want?  I want an elite oline and the best oline in the league.  You can want in one hand.

and sit on the other while the rest of the league takes advantage of a loaded darft class.

(04-29-2024, 09:17 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 12:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]The starting 5 is good enough.  The problem will be if Morse gets hurt and Fortner has to come in.

"good enough" should never, ever be the goal.

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(04-28-2024, 01:01 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Want?  I want an elite oline and the best oline in the league.  You can want in one hand.

and sit on the other while the rest of the league takes advantage of a loaded darft class.

If you asked Doug I would bet that's not the goal.  That's should never be the goal for any position.  It good to see they finally addressed the interior dline which was just as bad as the interior oline