Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Sit Tlaw.

The great teams can slog a win without their star QB. We can ride the defense and we have a good RB.

We did it back when Quinn Gray had to play a couple of games. Just need Beathard to NOT have a major screw up

(10-17-2023, 04:18 AM)jaglyn Wrote: [ -> ]Sit Tlaw.

The great teams can slog a win without their star QB. We can ride the defense and we have a good RB.

We did it back when Quinn Gray had to play a couple of games. Just need Beathard to NOT have a major screw up

Maybe the great teams can. But we aren’t a great team yet. We’re a good team with some really good talent that is still trying to find its consistency and how to play four quarters. If we’re going to win, 16 has to be running the offense. If he’s good enough to play, we need him out there.

As I look at the rest of the schedule, there is maybe one game that is a sure bet win. The rest could go either way…and San Francisco is a likely loss.


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I can't believe there are people thinking we'd be ok with CJ over Trevor. That's like going from a Ferrari to a Geo Metro with 400k miles. Can it get you where you need to go? Sure, MAYBE, but it's a significantly stressful ride.

(10-16-2023, 01:23 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-16-2023, 09:29 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Holy crap truth right here.

Eat the clock, smash mouth football. Heck at that point I was already calling for Beathard to be in and handing off for 3 downs. I had enough confidence in the D that I wasn't even worried about giving the ball back without additional points.

We have a short week, so I would have been SUUUUUUUUPER conservative when it comes to reps and fatigue/injury risk.

We got lucky.

---

given the state of our line "you run that play a million times and it works" is quite a stretch.

You run that play a million times and hold your dang breath.

Literally the only reason people are butt hurt about this call is because Trevor might have hurt his knee. No one said anything about the play the other times it was being run. And an injury can happen any time.

People claiming the game was over must be the same people who were leaving at the end of the third quarter because they didn’t see the colts take over the momentum in the 4th. We weren’t moving the ball much at that point either (thankfully Agnew had his big return that set up the field goal). Stay aggressive. How many times have we heard complaints when past Jag coaches have gone conservative in that situation? Pederson said he wanted to put a stake through their hearts then and there and I agree 100%.

The point is, “plays that keep our QB from getting injured” isn’t a category on the play sheet. If it is, you have the wrong coach. Bring back the ice cream sprinkles.

Butt's not hurt, but I was screaming at the TV long before that play questioning why we were bothering to keep starters in up 14 on a short field when our obvious strategy should be to milk clock and do nothing more. Our purpose at that stage was to run clock, force Indy to burn a few times out, and maybe put a few more points on the board.

Beathard makes good money, he should be trusted to come in and hand off three runs and do enough to get us in position to make it a three-score lead with minimal time left.

It was a bad choice to still have the starters in that late. So sure, keep Trevor in, fine. Three handoffs and see what happens. Maybe we get lucky like last week and Indy's D finally gives up a big gain on a run. If not, we still managed to force them to burn all three times out, and are still in range for an FG attempt.

The D showed enough that day that I wasn't worried about Indy managing 14 points in 3 minutes...were you?

(10-17-2023, 08:50 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-16-2023, 01:23 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Literally the only reason people are butt hurt about this call is because Trevor might have hurt his knee. No one said anything about the play the other times it was being run. And an injury can happen any time.

People claiming the game was over must be the same people who were leaving at the end of the third quarter because they didn’t see the colts take over the momentum in the 4th. We weren’t moving the ball much at that point either (thankfully Agnew had his big return that set up the field goal). Stay aggressive. How many times have we heard complaints when past Jag coaches have gone conservative in that situation? Pederson said he wanted to put a stake through their hearts then and there and I agree 100%.

The point is, “plays that keep our QB from getting injured” isn’t a category on the play sheet. If it is, you have the wrong coach. Bring back the ice cream sprinkles.

Butt's not hurt, but I was screaming at the TV long before that play questioning why we were bothering to keep starters in up 14 on a short field when our obvious strategy should be to milk clock and do nothing more. Our purpose at that stage was to run clock, force Indy to burn a few times out, and maybe put a few more points on the board.

Beathard makes good money, he should be trusted to come in and hand off three runs and do enough to get us in position to make it a three-score lead with minimal time left.

It was a bad choice to still have the starters in that late. So sure, keep Trevor in, fine. Three handoffs and see what happens. Maybe we get lucky like last week and Indy's D finally gives up a big gain on a run. If not, we still managed to force them to burn all three times out, and are still in range for an FG attempt.

The D showed enough that day that I wasn't worried about Indy managing 14 points in 3 minutes...were you?

Professional QBs do not get pulled. ETN had 55 yards on almost 20 carries, so they weren't running the ball. And yes, I was worried about Minshew scoring more points.

(10-16-2023, 02:47 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Throw enough shade to get the Ain’ts game planning for Beathard. Then, come game time, Trevor makes his entrance.

No coach gonna fall for that, though. Unless Trevor is ruled out, he's playing, everybody and their senile gramma knows it.

(10-16-2023, 04:10 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-16-2023, 01:30 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Again, the "momentum shift" could have been avoided completely by running it more. Goes back to the INT being tossed over the middle. People are butthurt now because there's less than three days to prepare for the Saints and he's now potentially or already in the process of splitting first team reps with Beathard. 

And, again, situation, situation, situation, situation, situation. Did I miss something during those first three quarters? When we were up 31 to 6 entering the 4th quarter? Did Minshew, after having a fumble and multiple INT's that resulted in 17+ points being scored on the day get benched for Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Tom Brady or John Elway? Did Patrick Mahomes sneak in after playing on Thursday night?

You can die on this hill all you want. It's admirable, foolish, but, admirable. You're in a very, very small group with this line of thinking man. Local news guys were ripping it post game, just like they ripped it today on the local shows that's Jaguars related. Say whatever you want.

It was not a wise decision, period, having your [BLEEP] QB rolling around or throwing it THAT close to the endzone with 3:00 minutes and some change to play being up 14 points already. Just bad, bad situational football and awareness there. Period. If you want to stand there and defend that turd in the teal colored punch bowl along with nejagsfan? Knock yourself out.

Situational football is more about how to attack 2nd and short vs 3rd and long or what kind of coverages to play based on what kind of routes receivers are running. I really don't like the idea of making strategy decisions based on the likelihood of a player getting hurt or not when the opponent still has life. That's like trying to play not to get hurt. If you want to look at it that way though, rolling the QB out given our line play is actually less risky than having him drop back. The call was fine, bro, you're just second guessing it because he had an injury scare and trying to justify it as some sort of prescience. If we'd run ETN up the middle and he'd hurt *his* knee I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing. Injuries can happen, it's the nature of the sport.

While you're pondering that, something else to think about, the Colts had scored 14 points within about 6 minutes in the 4th quarter. They clearly had the momentum although Agnew gave us a boost and Minshew helped us seal the deal by throwing picks. I liked the call, it's not inherently any less safe than any other play in football and shows that Pederson is willing to be aggressive to seal the deal.

they had just turned the ball over on downs with 3 and change left in the game inside their own 20.

We bended, but we did not broke. We were probably playing a lot of prevent at that stage, too...let them get their dinks and dunks, just keep it in bounds.

And yeah, run ETN three times. If he gets hurt, it's an unfortunate circumstance, but it's the smart play. Doubt that anyone would be questioning the coaches on the choice to grind out clock and seal the win. Much less risk of blowing a knee out on a dive into a dogpile than there is putting Trevor in space against an edge rusher or IDL.

(10-17-2023, 04:18 AM)jaglyn Wrote: [ -> ]Sit Tlaw.

The great teams can slog a win without their star QB. We can ride the defense and we have a good RB.

We did it back when Quinn Gray had to play a couple of games. Just need Beathard to NOT have a major screw up

Difference between Quinn Gray to David Garrard <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Difference between CJB and TLaw

If TLaw can go, he goes. Now we may lean more on run game and TOP to get in, get a win, and get out, but there's no way they sit TLaw unless his leg is in severe shape.

Since this injury play is going to be consternated until Trevor throws a completion again, may as well break it down.

The play is a fake to ETN like they are running right and the entire line shifts that way.
TL rolls the opposite direction after the play fake along with two viable targets in Strange and Tim Jones.

The DE lined up over Strange creates the biggest problem here, because Strange is supposed to chip and run a route to the flat.
In my mind, I'd like to see TL check out of this when he sees Ebukam and EJ Speed stacked over his TE.

That didn't happen - so you need Strange to at least slow one of those two down.
Well, that didn't happen either.
 Strange is slow getting out of his stance after the snap, Ebukam craftily shifts to Strange's inside shoulder just before the snap, and it all goes downhill from there.

(10-17-2023, 09:34 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Since this injury play is going to be consternated until Trevor throws a completion again, may as well break it down.

The play is a fake to ETN like they are running right and the entire line shifts that way.
TL rolls the opposite direction after the play fake along with two viable targets in Strange and Tim Jones.

The DE lined up over Strange creates the biggest problem here, because Strange is supposed to chip and run a route to the flat.
In my mind, I'd like to see TL check out of this when he sees Ebukam and EJ Speed stacked over his TE.

That didn't happen - so you need Strange to at least slow one of those two down.
Well, that didn't happen either.
 Strange is slow getting out of his stance after the snap, Ebukam craftily shifts to Strange's inside shoulder just before the snap, and it all goes downhill from there.

Looks like a [BLEEP] call with [BLEEP] execution that put this team in an unnecessarily [BLEEP] situation.  I would like to see it not even be an option there on the table.

Should have been in a weak I formation or strong formation at that point running it right up the [BLEEP] middle. The only time that seize the day guy would be okay with that call, for sure.

If you want to get cute there? Go back to the wildcat with Etienne taking a direct snap or maybe faking a botched snap that actually ends up in Bigsby's hands instead somehow.

Just a wide variety of ways to handle that situation in general. Having your QB roll out with shaky line play after getting his bell rung in London by Buffalo with that much time left in the game and up by 14 is not one of them.

(10-17-2023, 09:41 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2023, 09:34 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Since this injury play is going to be consternated until Trevor throws a completion again, may as well break it down.

The play is a fake to ETN like they are running right and the entire line shifts that way.
TL rolls the opposite direction after the play fake along with two viable targets in Strange and Tim Jones.

The DE lined up over Strange creates the biggest problem here, because Strange is supposed to chip and run a route to the flat.
In my mind, I'd like to see TL check out of this when he sees Ebukam and EJ Speed stacked over his TE.

That didn't happen - so you need Strange to at least slow one of those two down.
Well, that didn't happen either.
 Strange is slow getting out of his stance after the snap, Ebukam craftily shifts to Strange's inside shoulder just before the snap, and it all goes downhill from there.

Looks like a [BLEEP] call with [BLEEP] execution that put this team in an unnecessarily [BLEEP] situation.  I would like to see it not even be an option there on the table.

Should have been in a weak I formation or strong formation at that point running it right up the [BLEEP] middle. The only time that seize the day guy would be okay with that call, for sure.

If you want to get cute there? Go back to the wildcat with Etienne taking a direct snap or maybe faking a botched snap that actually ends up in Bigsby's hands instead somehow.

Just a wide variety of ways to handle that situation in general. Having your QB roll out with shaky line play after getting his bell rung in London by Buffalo with that much time left in the game and up by 14 is not one of them.

I'm pretty sure we used this play successfully on third and short late in one of our must win games last season to keep a scoring drive alive and win the game. 
Pederson called it probably 20 times last year, and that's also part of the problem. 
That DE and LB sure look like they've seen that tape.

Now - as to why we'd run this play in THIS situation... Well... I shan't attempt to defend our illustrious staff on that point.

I'm ALL FOR keeping one's foot on the gas, but this was a bit too greedy IMO.

(10-17-2023, 08:50 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-16-2023, 01:23 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Literally the only reason people are butt hurt about this call is because Trevor might have hurt his knee. No one said anything about the play the other times it was being run. And an injury can happen any time.

People claiming the game was over must be the same people who were leaving at the end of the third quarter because they didn’t see the colts take over the momentum in the 4th. We weren’t moving the ball much at that point either (thankfully Agnew had his big return that set up the field goal). Stay aggressive. How many times have we heard complaints when past Jag coaches have gone conservative in that situation? Pederson said he wanted to put a stake through their hearts then and there and I agree 100%.

The point is, “plays that keep our QB from getting injured” isn’t a category on the play sheet. If it is, you have the wrong coach. Bring back the ice cream sprinkles.

Butt's not hurt, but I was screaming at the TV long before that play questioning why we were bothering to keep starters in up 14 on a short field when our obvious strategy should be to milk clock and do nothing more. Our purpose at that stage was to run clock, force Indy to burn a few times out, and maybe put a few more points on the board.

Beathard makes good money, he should be trusted to come in and hand off three runs and do enough to get us in position to make it a three-score lead with minimal time left.

It was a bad choice to still have the starters in that late. So sure, keep Trevor in, fine. Three handoffs and see what happens. Maybe we get lucky like last week and Indy's D finally gives up a big gain on a run. If not, we still managed to force them to burn all three times out, and are still in range for an FG attempt.

The D showed enough that day that I wasn't worried about Indy managing 14 points in 3 minutes...were you?

As good as they were for three quarters they gave up 14 points in the span of six minutes earlier in the 4th. With a quick score and an onside kick, it wasn’t outside the realm of possibility. It happens in the NFL. 

Sit your guys if you’re up by three scores late and the opponent shows no signs of life. That wasn’t the situation at that moment.

Weeks 1 to 5: "Waaaaaa! We're too conservative!!!!"
Week 6: 'Waaaa! We're too agressive!!!!"

(10-17-2023, 10:37 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Weeks 1 to 5: "Waaaaaa! We're too conservative!!!!"
Week 6: 'Waaaa! We're too agressive!!!!"

LOL

I was sort of thinking the same thing yesterday, but I do get the gripe on that one play.
If it hadn't been defended well, we'd probably be hearing a chorus of praise for Pederson's audacity. 

Overall - I'm thrilled we have a staff that keeps the hammer down. 
Not gonna nit-pick it any further.  It is what it is and I'd rather err on the side of aggression than timidity. 
The Marrone era was so frustrating that way. Get up ten points and start phoning in the game. Ugh. Was so hard to watch at times. 

Nate Hackett was like, "oh look - they have zero answers for plays out of this one formation that spreads the defense out! Let's go back to power runs with Fournette with 8 in the box instead!" LOL

(10-17-2023, 10:47 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2023, 10:37 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Weeks 1 to 5: "Waaaaaa! We're too conservative!!!!"
Week 6: 'Waaaa! We're too agressive!!!!"

LOL

I was sort of thinking the same thing yesterday, but I do get the gripe on that one play.
If it hadn't been defended well, we'd probably be hearing a chorus of praise for Pederson's audacity. 

Overall - I'm thrilled we have a staff that keeps the hammer down. 
Not gonna nit-pick it any further.  It is what it is and I'd rather err on the side of aggression that timidity. 
The Marrone era was so frustrating that way. Get up ten points and start phoning in the game. Ugh. Was so hard to watch at times. 

Nate Hackett was like, "oh look - they have zero answers for plays out of this one formation that spreads the defense out! Let's go back to power runs with Fournette with 8 in the box instead!" LOL

TLaw needs to learn the dive and we need to stop calling back side roll outs. Other than that I like the agressive calls.

(10-17-2023, 10:53 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2023, 10:47 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL

I was sort of thinking the same thing yesterday, but I do get the gripe on that one play.
If it hadn't been defended well, we'd probably be hearing a chorus of praise for Pederson's audacity. 

Overall - I'm thrilled we have a staff that keeps the hammer down. 
Not gonna nit-pick it any further.  It is what it is and I'd rather err on the side of aggression that timidity. 
The Marrone era was so frustrating that way. Get up ten points and start phoning in the game. Ugh. Was so hard to watch at times. 

Nate Hackett was like, "oh look - they have zero answers for plays out of this one formation that spreads the defense out! Let's go back to power runs with Fournette with 8 in the box instead!" LOL

TLaw needs to learn the dive and we need to stop calling back side roll outs. Other than that I like the agressive calls.

There's a time and place for aggressiveness. Not sure why people can't seem to wrap that part around their thick skull here. 

Again, less than 3:30 in the game, you're in field goal range already, you're up by 14 points. That's the kind of nonsense call you see your child or grandchild do in Madden at home. Not in a real football game. 

Being aggressive when it makes sense is fine. Doing it with a lead with that much time left in the game is not fine. Just like it wasn't fine when Doug rolled the dice on a 4th and 6 on our side of the football field before half time against Kanas City and gifted them points on a platter.

Situations matter.

(10-17-2023, 11:38 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2023, 10:53 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]TLaw needs to learn the dive and we need to stop calling back side roll outs. Other than that I like the agressive calls.

There's a time and place for aggressiveness. Not sure why people can't seem to wrap that part around their thick skull here. 

Again, less than 3:30 in the game, you're in field goal range already, you're up by 14 points. That's the kind of nonsense call you see your child or grandchild do in Madden at home. Not in a real football game. 

Being aggressive when it makes sense is fine. Doing it with a lead with that much time left in the game is not fine. Just like it wasn't fine when Doug rolled the dice on a 4th and 6 on our side of the football field before half time against Kanas City and gifted them points on a platter.

Situations matter.

And had it worked you'd be praising the call and execution. It's very easy to be critical when you have no consequences for being wrong.

You take the good with the bad.

I didn't like the Wildcat call after the sack fumble but look at that... TD!

(10-17-2023, 11:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2023, 11:38 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]There's a time and place for aggressiveness. Not sure why people can't seem to wrap that part around their thick skull here. 

Again, less than 3:30 in the game, you're in field goal range already, you're up by 14 points. That's the kind of nonsense call you see your child or grandchild do in Madden at home. Not in a real football game. 

Being aggressive when it makes sense is fine. Doing it with a lead with that much time left in the game is not fine. Just like it wasn't fine when Doug rolled the dice on a 4th and 6 on our side of the football field before half time against Kanas City and gifted them points on a platter.

Situations matter.

And had it worked you'd be praising the call and execution. It's very easy to be critical when you have no consequences for being wrong.

Just like you would be besides yourself had his knee been completely [BLEEP] and we're running the rest of the way with CJ Beathard.

That's typically how it goes. Whether it's on a forum with aggressive thick skulls with brains softer than baby [BLEEP] or in the local or national media. 

What's your point? It doesn't absolve the fact that they were up 14 [BLEEP] points with less than 3:30 to play. 

It's fun to gamble sometimes. I get it. There was nothing to gain there mathematically that would have put us over the top. Other than meaningless stat padding for Fantasy Football buffs.

(10-17-2023, 11:58 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2023, 11:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]And had it worked you'd be praising the call and execution. It's very easy to be critical when you have no consequences for being wrong.

Just like you would be besides yourself had his knee been completely [BLEEP] and we're running the rest of the way with CJ Beathard.

That's typically how it goes. Whether it's on a forum with aggressive thick skulls with brains softer than baby [BLEEP] or in the local or national media. 

What's your point? It doesn't absolve the fact that they were up 14 [BLEEP] points with less than 3:30 to play. 

It's fun to gamble sometimes. I get it. There was nothing to gain there mathematically that would have put us over the top. Other than meaningless stat padding for Fantasy Football buffs.

Not true, a first down there keeps us in possession of the ball and forces them to start burning TOs. As for your first sentence, that's part of the game. It's when people start saying things like "sit the starters since we're up 14" and "Sit TLaw this week so he can heal up" that it becomes absurd. As always, the play call was fine but the execution lacking.