(10-08-2023, 01:11 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence endured more punishment today than I've ever seen and yet he was still throwing dimes. The guy is physically tough.
I just hope the Jags don’t do with Lawrence what Indy did with Luck. Have a terrible OL for years and get him beat up physically.
There really shouldn't be any lingering questions from anyone about trevor. He's elite.
(10-08-2023, 02:08 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 01:11 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence endured more punishment today than I've ever seen and yet he was still throwing dimes. The guy is physically tough.
I just hope the Jags don’t do with Lawrence what Indy did with Luck. Have a terrible OL for years and get him beat up physically.
It's already happening, you can see it in the sideline treatment.
(10-08-2023, 02:08 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 01:11 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence endured more punishment today than I've ever seen and yet he was still throwing dimes. The guy is physically tough.
I just hope the Jags don’t do with Lawrence what Indy did with Luck. Have a terrible OL for years and get him beat up physically.
Yeah - we've already begun this process unfortunately - and desperately need to correct course ASAP
We went OL in the 1st, then TE in the 2nd, then RB, LB, and DE for our first 5 picks last year.
We should be drafting OL 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds next year.
While it's obvious that with good play calling Trevor can beat elite teams like the Bills, he's also getting beat up because the O-Line isn't protecting him well enough. Trevor is getting killed out there. It's obvious it's not going to be fixed this year. But it should be 100% the priority next year. O-Line needs to be better to ensure Lawrence can play for as long as the Brady's and Rodger's of the world.
(10-08-2023, 03:24 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]We went OL in the 1st, then TE in the 2nd, then RB, LB, and DE for our first 5 picks last year.
We should be drafting OL 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds next year.
While it's obvious that with good play calling Trevor can beat elite teams like the Bills, he's also getting beat up because the O-Line isn't protecting him well enough. Trevor is getting killed out there. It's obvious it's not going to be fixed this year. But it should be 100% the priority next year. O-Line needs to be better to ensure Lawrence can play for as long as the Brady's and Rodger's of the world.
I think we all agree Oline needs to be a priority in the offseason (and Dline to be honest). The problem is I don't think rookies and FA signings are going to solve the problem short term. Oline is the weakest position group in the league with elite or top level talent and every team wants Oline help. That's why they get so crazy overpaid in FA. Cam will be gone after this year and that will help as his cap hit is huge but I don't see any quick fixes sadly.
I hope they can find a trade to help us out for this year and try and find a way to improve what we currently have but even looking at the free agents at Oline for the upcoming off season, sheesh it's grim.
(10-08-2023, 03:37 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 03:24 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]We went OL in the 1st, then TE in the 2nd, then RB, LB, and DE for our first 5 picks last year.
We should be drafting OL 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds next year.
While it's obvious that with good play calling Trevor can beat elite teams like the Bills, he's also getting beat up because the O-Line isn't protecting him well enough. Trevor is getting killed out there. It's obvious it's not going to be fixed this year. But it should be 100% the priority next year. O-Line needs to be better to ensure Lawrence can play for as long as the Brady's and Rodger's of the world.
I think we all agree Oline needs to be a priority in the offseason (and Dline to be honest). The problem is I don't think rookies and FA signings are going to solve the problem short term. Oline is the weakest position group in the league with elite or top level talent and every team wants Oline help. That's why they get so crazy overpaid in FA. Cam will be gone after this year and that will help as his cap hit is huge but I don't see any quick fixes sadly.
I hope they can find a trade to help us out for this year and try and find a way to improve what we currently have but even looking at the free agents at Oline for the upcoming off season, sheesh it's grim.
Anton Harrison was a good pick up. He's done well and is only getting better. Walker Little is a decent Lineman too. Caldrac mentioned that Fortner may be better at Guard than at center... Which honestly makes sense. Fortner is not doing well with all the responsibilities at Center. He's slow at reacting to where he needs to shift his protection.
So let's say we have Little, Harrison, and Fortner (at Guard, not Center). So we just need to find a Center, maybe in Free Agency? And get best Guard available in the 1st round, and a back up lineman in the 2nd round.
I was gonna say we dump Scherff and go find another free agent guard, but dude, his cap hit is 14 Million... He's gonna be with us next year, too. Freakin' making money and playing like trash. SMH.
(10-08-2023, 03:59 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 03:37 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all agree Oline needs to be a priority in the offseason (and Dline to be honest). The problem is I don't think rookies and FA signings are going to solve the problem short term. Oline is the weakest position group in the league with elite or top level talent and every team wants Oline help. That's why they get so crazy overpaid in FA. Cam will be gone after this year and that will help as his cap hit is huge but I don't see any quick fixes sadly.
I hope they can find a trade to help us out for this year and try and find a way to improve what we currently have but even looking at the free agents at Oline for the upcoming off season, sheesh it's grim.
Anton Harrison was a good pick up. He's done well and is only getting better. Walker Little is a decent Lineman too. Caldrac mentioned that Fortner may be better at Guard than at center... Which honestly makes sense. Fortner is not doing well with all the responsibilities at Center. He's slow at reacting to where he needs to shift his protection.
So let's say we have Little, Harrison, and Fortner (at Guard, not Center). So we just need to find a Center, maybe in Free Agency? And get best Guard available in the 1st round, and a back up lineman in the 2nd round.
I was gonna say we dump Scherff and go find another free agent guard, but dude, his cap hit is 14 Million... He's gonna be with us next year, too. Freakin' making money and playing like trash. SMH.
Well I hope the coaches can improve them talent wise. We do have a lot of young guys and you hope with time they will get better. I'd feel a lot more confident if, like you say, it's one guy per year kind of deal and add some depth and competion.
Yeah Scherff isn't going anywhere. Kind of like Norwell. A big ticket FA who looks to be a great pickup but not playing up to thr contract. I feel sorry for whatever team is going to pay Cam $18m-$20m this offseason.
(10-08-2023, 04:06 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 03:59 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Anton Harrison was a good pick up. He's done well and is only getting better. Walker Little is a decent Lineman too. Caldrac mentioned that Fortner may be better at Guard than at center... Which honestly makes sense. Fortner is not doing well with all the responsibilities at Center. He's slow at reacting to where he needs to shift his protection.
So let's say we have Little, Harrison, and Fortner (at Guard, not Center). So we just need to find a Center, maybe in Free Agency? And get best Guard available in the 1st round, and a back up lineman in the 2nd round.
I was gonna say we dump Scherff and go find another free agent guard, but dude, his cap hit is 14 Million... He's gonna be with us next year, too. Freakin' making money and playing like trash. SMH.
Well I hope the coaches can improve them talent wise. We do have a lot of young guys and you hope with time they will get better. I'd feel a lot more confident if, like you say, it's one guy per year kind of deal and add some depth and competion.
Yeah Scherff isn't going anywhere. Kind of like Norwell. A big ticket FA who looks to be a great pickup but not playing up to thr contract. I feel sorry for whatever team is going to pay Cam $18m-$20m this offseason.
Right? Cam is the next Jawaan Taylor!!! LOL
Honestly, though? If we could get Cam for 6 million. I'd keep him. But I'm sure he's looking for a sucker to overpay him.
Which is fine. Little is good. And Anton Harrison looks like he's gonna be good too. It's just how do we manage the Gs and C? People are saying Scherff is hobble, which I think is true... The problem is that there are highlights I've seen where the dude is just standing there and missing blitzers or stunts that are coming right into his line of view. I think with Scherff it's not that he's at 80% because of dings, but that he's not giving effort out there. Sometimes it's like he's checked out and not willing to make a play.
With that said, Fortner sometimes looks like he's thinking too much. It's not a lack of effort with Fornter, but that maybe C in not the right position for him. Why not move him to G and give someone else a chance...
Of course, when you look at our depth chart... Yeesh... It's not like there are a lot of options... Help is not on the way this year... Lawrence is going to have to continue to keep his head on a swivel. And our coaches have to do a good job of keeping the Defenses guessing. The play calling today really helped keep Trevor productive and kept the team in the game. Unfortunately, it also means Trevor is gonna get hit alot. If this team get's to the AFC Championship game, it'll be a HUGE accomplishment.
Failing to give Lawrence an adequate offensive line is careee suicide in my opinion for anybody in that front office.
Daniel Jones was taken out with a neck injury after taking his 6th sack today. You have to protect our franchise QB.
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(10-08-2023, 02:08 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 01:11 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence endured more punishment today than I've ever seen and yet he was still throwing dimes. The guy is physically tough.
I just hope the Jags don’t do with Lawrence what Indy did with Luck. Have a terrible OL for years and get him beat up physically.
I don't see how they don't do something with the interior 3. The tackles look really good. Cam/Little/Harrison are great. Tough choice at LT coming.. Maybe they keep Cam and train up Little to be a permanent guard? I don't think he'd like that especially playing well at LT. Either way Trevor needs to move better in the pocket. I'd argue 1/2 fumbles was on him today, the other was a really bad play by Cam if I recall correctly.
Scherff's dead cap is 14 million, his cap number next year is $24 million.
(10-08-2023, 04:17 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Failing to give Lawrence an adequate offensive line is career suicide in my opinion for anybody in that front office.
Daniel Jones was taken out with a neck injury after taking his 6th sack today. You have to protect our franchise QB.
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Draft and FA should be all about protection.
It'd be nice to try and find a Edge Rusher... But at this point, Trevor is getting mauled on 50% of his drop backs. That's just not acceptable.
Though, there were a couple times where Trevor is allowing it to happen to him.
He ran into a sack that twisted his legs up. And he did it again instead of just throwing it to a reciever. I get it. He's under durress more than he should be. But I think he really needs to get better at working the pocket instead of trying to bail out of the pocket early.
(10-08-2023, 04:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Scherff's dead cap is 14 million, his cap number next year is $24 million.
I meant that if we cut him, we'd still be on the hook for 14 million. Most GMs won't take that type of dead cap hit. But yes, I didn't make that distinction. Thank you for clarifying.
(10-08-2023, 04:20 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 02:08 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I just hope the Jags don’t do with Lawrence what Indy did with Luck. Have a terrible OL for years and get him beat up physically.
I don't see how they don't do something with the interior 3. The tackles look really good. Cam/Little/Harrison are great. Tough choice at LT coming.. Maybe they keep Cam and train up Little to be a permanent guard? I don't think he'd like that especially playing well at LT. Either way Trevor needs to move better in the pocket. I'd argue 1/2 fumbles was on him today, the other was a really bad play by Cam if I recall correctly.
Little is good, Harrison probably will be. Cam is...not.
First fumble Trevor got hit from behind because Cam wiffed. Second one Trevor didn't get to Kirk on the drag crosser and got taken down by Oliver.
(10-08-2023, 04:22 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 04:17 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Failing to give Lawrence an adequate offensive line is career suicide in my opinion for anybody in that front office.
Daniel Jones was taken out with a neck injury after taking his 6th sack today. You have to protect our franchise QB.
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Draft and FA should be all about protection.
It'd be nice to try and find a Edge Rusher... But at this point, Trevor is getting mauled on 50% of his drop backs. That's just not acceptable.
Though, there were a couple times where Trevor is allowing it to happen to him.
He ran into a sack that twisted his legs up. And he did it again instead of just throwing it to a reciever. I get it. He's under durress more than he should be. But I think he really needs to get better at working the pocket instead of trying to bail out of the pocket early.
(10-08-2023, 04:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Scherff's dead cap is 14 million, his cap number next year is $24 million.
I meant that if we cut him, we'd still be on the hook for 14 million. Most GMs won't take that type of dead cap hit. But yes, I didn't make that distinction. Thank you for clarifying.
Just makes it worse 'cause there's no chance of getting out next year.
(10-08-2023, 04:16 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 04:06 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Well I hope the coaches can improve them talent wise. We do have a lot of young guys and you hope with time they will get better. I'd feel a lot more confident if, like you say, it's one guy per year kind of deal and add some depth and competion.
Yeah Scherff isn't going anywhere. Kind of like Norwell. A big ticket FA who looks to be a great pickup but not playing up to thr contract. I feel sorry for whatever team is going to pay Cam $18m-$20m this offseason.
Right? Cam is the next Jawaan Taylor!!! LOL
Honestly, though? If we could get Cam for 6 million. I'd keep him. But I'm sure he's looking for a sucker to overpay him.
Which is fine. Little is good. And Anton Harrison looks like he's gonna be good too. It's just how do we manage the Gs and C? People are saying Scherff is hobble, which I think is true... The problem is that there are highlights I've seen where the dude is just standing there and missing blitzers or stunts that are coming right into his line of view. I think with Scherff it's not that he's at 80% because of dings, but that he's not giving effort out there. Sometimes it's like he's checked out and not willing to make a play.
With that said, Fortner sometimes looks like he's thinking too much. It's not a lack of effort with Fornter, but that maybe C in not the right position for him. Why not move him to G and give someone else a chance...
Of course, when you look at our depth chart... Yeesh... It's not like there are a lot of options... Help is not on the way this year... Lawrence is going to have to continue to keep his head on a swivel. And our coaches have to do a good job of keeping the Defenses guessing. The play calling today really helped keep Trevor productive and kept the team in the game. Unfortunately, it also means Trevor is gonna get hit alot. If this team get's to the AFC Championship game, it'll be a HUGE accomplishment.
I agree I'd keep Cam for that price but it will be a Jawaan situation again. He'll hit FA and get crazy overpaid.
But I agree Little feels a ready made replacement and Harrison has done pretty well for a rookie so far. It feels like Scherff is there to help Fortner and be that experience but it does feel they are thinking too much at times and not just playing fast. The two big issues with the Oline for me are getting beat so quickly in their one on one matchups and getting pushed back so much. Those are the things making it so hard for Trevor as he's scrambling rather than looking downfield. They feel like things that can be corrected and then you see them have drives where they will destroy in run blocking and getting Etienne big holes.
I do think they are struggling with confidence on the Oline and you saw once they make one bad mistake, then comes the 2nd and 3rd. Your right that the depth isn't great and help isn't on the way but you just hope that the coaches or players find a way to be better as this O has the weapons.
(10-08-2023, 03:24 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]We went OL in the 1st, then TE in the 2nd, then RB, LB, and DE for our first 5 picks last year.
We should be drafting OL 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds next year.
While it's obvious that with good play calling Trevor can beat elite teams like the Bills, he's also getting beat up because the O-Line isn't protecting him well enough. Trevor is getting killed out there. It's obvious it's not going to be fixed this year. But it should be 100% the priority next year. O-Line needs to be better to ensure Lawrence can play for as long as the Brady's and Rodger's of the world.
As someone in the thread suggested, they need to be looking at trade options for O line. We’ve got to protect Trevor!
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(10-08-2023, 04:30 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 03:24 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]We went OL in the 1st, then TE in the 2nd, then RB, LB, and DE for our first 5 picks last year.
We should be drafting OL 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds next year.
While it's obvious that with good play calling Trevor can beat elite teams like the Bills, he's also getting beat up because the O-Line isn't protecting him well enough. Trevor is getting killed out there. It's obvious it's not going to be fixed this year. But it should be 100% the priority next year. O-Line needs to be better to ensure Lawrence can play for as long as the Brady's and Rodger's of the world.
As someone in the thread suggested, they need to be looking at trade options for O line. We’ve got to protect Trevor!
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Maybe we can swindle someone to take Cam off our hands? Maybe get a guard and a draft pick for him? idk.
(10-08-2023, 04:20 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 02:08 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I just hope the Jags don’t do with Lawrence what Indy did with Luck. Have a terrible OL for years and get him beat up physically.
I don't see how they don't do something with the interior 3. The tackles look really good. Cam/Little/Harrison are great. Tough choice at LT coming.. Maybe they keep Cam and train up Little to be a permanent guard? I don't think he'd like that especially playing well at LT.
In that case he'll only play for us one more year and will be leaving after 2024. In fact I think that's going to happen anyway.
(10-08-2023, 04:37 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2023, 04:30 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]As someone in the thread suggested, they need to be looking at trade options for O line. We’ve got to protect Trevor!
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Maybe we can swindle someone to take Cam off our hands? Maybe get a guard and a draft pick for him? idk.
Man, if there's a dude that can pull off some stuff, it's Baalke. I know, I know. Baalke is a clown, and he's made many bonehead moves. But he's really good at wheeling and dealing.
The thing is, in order for Baalke to even begin thinking this way, I'm sure Pederson is going to have to say that the O-Line needs a major overhaul right now. I'm not sure Pederson is willing to concede that point right now... Though, seeing Trevor get smoked the way he did today may be an accelerant to changing things up ASAP.
This offense is explosive when they want to be. Today, the play calling proved that we can still take shots and be explosive, even with a weak O-Line. But, we need to get better at keeping Lawrence up-right and un-touched for the long term. It's pretty clear that if we can give up a couple late round draft picks for a legit Guard or Center, you gotta do it. But you have to do it an be ready to pay for them in the long term. We have to focus our money G and C. Or we focus our draft capital on G and C. Or some sort of combo of the two.
Little, X, X, Fortner, Harrison. We're missing a C and a LG. And if you think Fortner should be C? I think we're then missing 3 O-Line. I was high on Fortner after last year. I thought he'd make a huge leap this year. Unless he's injured, he's completely regressed and is a total liability at C.