Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(11-16-2023, 02:25 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/17...erational/

Welp. Even non Jags fans noticing. Came back from lunch to see this topic started.

Last comment about Baalke was spot on.

(11-16-2023, 02:23 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 12:37 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]We can't run jumbo. Doesn't matter if you have a line-up change with your base five or actually add bodies to help push the interior with a pair of TE's and a lead blocker. 

Haven't you heard? 

Psst. It is what it is. We're sticking to shotgun on 3rd and inches. We suck.

It continues to amaze me that you think our fantastic Super Bowl winning coach doesn't know what he's doing.

Again. Two things. 

1. Some of you act like I am asking them to go from being an air-it-out quickly offense to a throwback ground and pound offense of the 80's and glory days that the Redskins, Packers and Bears used to popularize. I am just saying, some of the decision making on the 3rd and short has been not only dumbfounding but also produced roughly the same exact results. Which is failure. 

2. Doug Pederson may not actually be the issue here and it could simply be the fact that we've had nearly a 50/50 mix of bad play calling (Press Taylor's at the controls this year predominately, not Doug) and bad execution and we might be on the verge of seeing a shift in one or two of those things soon to get back on track. 

Also, we probably need to stop comparing what Doug did with the Eagles Vs. what he's doing now in year two with the Jaguars. Different divisions. Different rosters. Different conferences. Different situations. I am sure he'll be fine along with Lawrence in the long run. 

The biggest questions moving forward are, what are they going to do to counter punch these defenses moving forward to protect Lawrence and will Baalke be here again next year even if they do win the division and make the post season? Short of winning a Superbowl you would have to think some form of change is needed in the personnel department and front office.

(11-16-2023, 02:57 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 02:23 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It continues to amaze me that you think our fantastic Super Bowl winning coach doesn't know what he's doing.

Again. Two things. 

1. Some of you act like I am asking them to go from being an air-it-out quickly offense to a throwback ground and pound offense of the 80's and glory days that the Redskins, Packers and Bears used to popularize. I am just saying, some of the decision making on the 3rd and short has been not only dumbfounding but also produced roughly the same exact results. Which is failure. 

2. Doug Pederson may not actually be the issue here and it could simply be the fact that we've had nearly a 50/50 mix of bad play calling (Press Taylor's at the controls this year predominately, not Doug) and bad execution and we might be on the verge of seeing a shift in one or two of those things soon to get back on track. 

Also, we probably need to stop comparing what Doug did with the Eagles Vs. what he's doing now in year two with the Jaguars. Different divisions. Different rosters. Different conferences. Different situations. I am sure he'll be fine along with Lawrence in the long run. 

The biggest questions moving forward are, what are they going to do to counter punch these defenses moving forward to protect Lawrence and will Baalke be here again next year even if they do win the division and make the post season? Short of winning a Superbowl you would have to think some form of change is needed in the personnel department and front office.

if i had to bet my house money, Baalke job security is for another year or two. You have to remember who our owner is.....

Doug says offense limited due to Trevor's injury.

"Sure, one of the things that we haven't been able to do because of Trevor's condition with his knee is just move him a little bit more," Pederson told reporters on Wednesday. "Sometimes, you can create things off of that. He's been limited that way.

"Play-action pass can be an opportunity to shoot the ball down the field on first or second down, the screen game you've seen hit a little bit. Those are ways to create some explosives. Sometimes, just drop back and throw it. Just run past and use your speed on the perimeter. Try to take advantage of that while you're seeing teams do it in different ways."

Don't worry. Doug said the line was bad too...

https://www.nfl.com/news/jaguars-hc-doug...lawrence-s-

(11-16-2023, 04:05 PM)BaLLin4Life Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 02:57 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Again. Two things. 

1. Some of you act like I am asking them to go from being an air-it-out quickly offense to a throwback ground and pound offense of the 80's and glory days that the Redskins, Packers and Bears used to popularize. I am just saying, some of the decision making on the 3rd and short has been not only dumbfounding but also produced roughly the same exact results. Which is failure. 

2. Doug Pederson may not actually be the issue here and it could simply be the fact that we've had nearly a 50/50 mix of bad play calling (Press Taylor's at the controls this year predominately, not Doug) and bad execution and we might be on the verge of seeing a shift in one or two of those things soon to get back on track. 

Also, we probably need to stop comparing what Doug did with the Eagles Vs. what he's doing now in year two with the Jaguars. Different divisions. Different rosters. Different conferences. Different situations. I am sure he'll be fine along with Lawrence in the long run. 

The biggest questions moving forward are, what are they going to do to counter punch these defenses moving forward to protect Lawrence and will Baalke be here again next year even if they do win the division and make the post season? Short of winning a Superbowl you would have to think some form of change is needed in the personnel department and front office.

if i had to bet my house money, Baalke job security is for another year or two. You have to remember who our owner is.....

Deep down I know that's the case. The team is still winning, they're just not moving up quickly enough into the "elite" category. Goes back to Khan pissing away Lawrence's rookie year with Urban Meyer as the coach. 

I know the argument will be that, while our line play on both sides has been consistently inconsistent over the last two and a half years, he'll say that Baalke has done a good enough job via free agency to make this a competent and competitive enough football team.

Complacency kills. I think he has to consider moving on from him in the off season or at least adding another layer to the front office that vets Baalke's decision making and uses better judgement and foresight overall. We nearly had that position filled last year or earlier this year I think when they had talks with Rick Spielman. 

This needs to be a conversation again in the off season. Not for nothing, but, Baalke was hit or miss with his drafts in San Francisco and ultimately he had a four year window that he managed to [BLEEP] up. It seems like his history is repeating itself here. Same argument can be made for Doug with his resilience to call the offense in addition to being the head coach and he's willing to potentially die on that hill of putting his staff on display once again like he did that saw his departure with the Eagles. 

Things quickly change in the NFL. One minute you're the king of the castle, the next, you're the court jester begging for table scraps again. All within the blink of an eye.

For all we know Baalke wanted Torrence and Doug wanted Strange. Strange was absolutely a Doug pick. With still a half a season to go its just to early to say who needs to stay and who needs to go. Come playoff time we will have a much better idea. It all depends on results

(11-16-2023, 05:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]For all we know Baalke wanted Torrence and Doug wanted Strange.  Strange was absolutely a Doug pick.  With still a half a season to go its just to early to say who needs to stay and who needs to go.  Come playoff time we will have a much better idea.  It all depends on results

I have heard on more than one occasion that Lawrence has missed Strange quite a few times in the passing game. Wide open in some instances.

(11-16-2023, 04:05 PM)BaLLin4Life Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 02:57 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Again. Two things. 

1. Some of you act like I am asking them to go from being an air-it-out quickly offense to a throwback ground and pound offense of the 80's and glory days that the Redskins, Packers and Bears used to popularize. I am just saying, some of the decision making on the 3rd and short has been not only dumbfounding but also produced roughly the same exact results. Which is failure. 

2. Doug Pederson may not actually be the issue here and it could simply be the fact that we've had nearly a 50/50 mix of bad play calling (Press Taylor's at the controls this year predominately, not Doug) and bad execution and we might be on the verge of seeing a shift in one or two of those things soon to get back on track. 

Also, we probably need to stop comparing what Doug did with the Eagles Vs. what he's doing now in year two with the Jaguars. Different divisions. Different rosters. Different conferences. Different situations. I am sure he'll be fine along with Lawrence in the long run. 

The biggest questions moving forward are, what are they going to do to counter punch these defenses moving forward to protect Lawrence and will Baalke be here again next year even if they do win the division and make the post season? Short of winning a Superbowl you would have to think some form of change is needed in the personnel department and front office.

if i had to bet my house money, Baalke job security is for another year or two. You have to remember who our owner is.....

Year or two? This is the same man who gave Gus Bradley years and kept David Caldwell around. Shad isn't firing anyone for the foreseeable future. 

Lawrence is good but not an elite Qb recently.

---

(11-16-2023, 05:41 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 05:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]For all we know Baalke wanted Torrence and Doug wanted Strange.  Strange was absolutely a Doug pick.  With still a half a season to go its just to early to say who needs to stay and who needs to go.  Come playoff time we will have a much better idea.  It all depends on results

I have heard on more than one occasion that Lawrence has missed Strange quite a few times in the passing game. Wide open in some instances.

Very true

(11-16-2023, 05:50 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 04:05 PM)BaLLin4Life Wrote: [ -> ]if i had to bet my house money, Baalke job security is for another year or two. You have to remember who our owner is.....

Year or two? This is the same man who gave Gus Bradley years and kept David Caldwell around. Shad isn't firing anyone for the foreseeable future. 

Lawrence is good but not an elite Qb recently.

---

I'm sure a self made billionaire like Shad Khan has never learned from his own mistakes in life to become so successful. Surely his success has come from repeating his failures. 
We should definitely strike from our thoughts any possibilty that he could ever look back on his loyalty to subpar coaching and management as something to learn from. 

In fact, we should all take great solace in the extended tenure he granted Urban Meyer as a crystalline example of how he will not part ways with an underperforming hire no matter how badly they execute their responsibilities.

(11-16-2023, 05:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]For all we know Baalke wanted Torrence and Doug wanted Strange.  Strange was absolutely a Doug pick.  With still a half a season to go its just to early to say who needs to stay and who needs to go.  Come playoff time we will have a much better idea.  It all depends on results

This.

(11-16-2023, 05:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]For all we know Baalke wanted Torrence and Doug wanted Strange.  Strange was absolutely a Doug pick.  With still a half a season to go its just to early to say who needs to stay and who needs to go.  Come playoff time we will have a much better idea.  It all depends on results

I don't understand why people feel like they know enough to assign these picks to one guy in the draft room like this. 

It's kind of ridiculous. We have little bread crumbs of info and make these absolute statements. 

I mean - you might be right - you might be completely off base. But you definitely can't state with any certainty that Doug "made" Baalke choose that player. 

I recall you were just as resolute for several pages a few months ago claiming that Doug was going to immediately incorporate Strange in the passing attack and Doug's offense is centered around having two pass catching TEs.

How's that working out for you?

(11-16-2023, 05:50 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 04:05 PM)BaLLin4Life Wrote: [ -> ]if i had to bet my house money, Baalke job security is for another year or two. You have to remember who our owner is.....

Year or two? This is the same man who gave Gus Bradley years and kept David Caldwell around. Shad isn't firing anyone for the foreseeable future. 

Lawrence is good but not an elite Qb recently.

---

(11-16-2023, 05:41 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I have heard on more than one occasion that Lawrence has missed Strange quite a few times in the passing game. Wide open in some instances.

Very true

If Lawrence were not elite this team would be 2-7 and he'd be sacked at a David Carr like rate. Strange is the third read (at best) in a 2 second offense.

(11-16-2023, 06:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 05:50 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]Year or two? This is the same man who gave Gus Bradley years and kept David Caldwell around. Shad isn't firing anyone for the foreseeable future. 

Lawrence is good but not an elite Qb recently.

---

I'm sure a self made billionaire like Shad Khan has never learned from his own mistakes in life to become so successful. Surely his success has come from repeating his failures. 
We should definitely strike from our thoughts any possibilty that he could ever look back on his loyalty to subpar coaching and management as something to learn from. 

In fact, we should all take great solace in the extended tenure he granted Urban Meyer as a crystalline example of how he will not part ways with an underperforming hire no matter how badly they execute their responsibilities.

I hope you are right on the first part. 

Urban Meyer was such a catastrophic failure it was almost impossible not to fire him. He was kicking players, Feeling young booty, didn't know personal, berating players and coaches, and worse of all, Losing!  I do appreciate Shad pulling the trigger but my god it was almost impossible not too.

---

(11-16-2023, 07:35 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 05:50 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]Year or two? This is the same man who gave Gus Bradley years and kept David Caldwell around. Shad isn't firing anyone for the foreseeable future. 

Lawrence is good but not an elite Qb recently.

---

Very true

If Lawrence were not elite this team would be 2-7 and he'd be sacked at a David Carr like rate. Strange is the third read (at best) in a 2 second offense.

Dude lets be real.  Lawrence is not elite and the real reason the team is 6-3 is the defense.  I love me some Trevor Lawrence but you are delusional if you think he is playing anywhere near an elite level right now. We can make all the excuses we want but he himself is not playing great football.  He has his moments but the package as a whole is lacking.  He may throw for less than 20 TDs in a 17 game season.  Lets be real.

Trevor isn't a bust (yet). But he certainly has not blossomed to the generational talent everyone thought he was. Has he had some remarkable plays? Sure. But he is grossly inconsistent.

I wonder how much the knee is hampering his play. It certainly has been a dissappinting season for him so far. I think even if you put the O line issues aside if we are all honest with ourselves we would say we wanted to see more from him.

(11-16-2023, 11:50 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 11:07 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Psst. We know. Psst. It's all the offensive line's fault.

Psst. Reality. Nothing's going to change that until next year. So. Psst. The coaches and QB need to figure it out and elevate the piss poor play of that situation because that's psst.... the expectations from the national pundits and local pundits. 

Nobody wants to hear excuses.

Here... take this lump of coal and turn it into a gold brick. No excuses!!!

You're being kind of silly at this point. 

Doug Pederson isn't going to magically turn this [BLEEP] sandwich into filet mignon by dialing up our suggestions from the peanut gallery. Yes, I see things I'd try to do as well. I don't know if they'd make a difference or not. If a Super Bowl winning coach has been grappling with the problem for 9 games - he's probably thought of what I'm thinking of by now too. 

 He's been trying.  He didn't suddenly realize this line sucks during the SF game. He's been trying to mitigate the problem all season. Which is why our depth of target is so low. 

Xs & Os are important - but they simply aren't going to be enough to fix the trenches talent gap against a top ten defense unless we play 100% mistake free football and get some really lucky bounces going our way. 

You can call valid reasons "excuses" till you are blue in the face, and it won't change the amount of time it takes Javon Hargrave to knife his way between Scherff and Linder to interrupt Trevor's progression before he moves to his second read.

I do think this Oline is more talented than they are playing but the problems now are still the same problems from the beginning of the season. Yes we look better against weaker pass rushes but top level ones just destroy our gameplan.

The thing for me, and I've said it many times before, there is just a real lack of top level Oline talent in the league now. It's definitely the weakest position group across the league for talent depth and every team is looking to improve what they have and will massively overpay (Jawaan Taylor). There's not a quick fix for this season, just need to find someway of blocking schemes or playcalling where they can limit the amount of times they get beaten or get Trevor hit but I also don't think there's a quick fix for next season or after. Rookies will take time to develop and FA additions will be expensive.

It's on the Oline players to improve their performances and executing better but I feel its mainly on the coaches to try and find a solution. We need to get more from what we've got this year and beyond.

(11-16-2023, 07:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 05:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]For all we know Baalke wanted Torrence and Doug wanted Strange.  Strange was absolutely a Doug pick.  With still a half a season to go its just to early to say who needs to stay and who needs to go.  Come playoff time we will have a much better idea.  It all depends on results

I don't understand why people feel like they know enough to assign these picks to one guy in the draft room like this. 

It's kind of ridiculous. We have little bread crumbs of info and make these absolute statements. 

I mean - you might be right - you might be completely off base. But you definitely can't state with any certainty that Doug "made" Baalke choose that player. 

I recall you were just as resolute for several pages a few months ago claiming that Doug was going to immediately incorporate Strange in the passing attack and Doug's offense is centered around having two pass catching TEs.

How's that working out for you?

Doug isn't calling the plays and Strange sucks up to this point.  He isn't good enough right now to run the 2 TE sets like Doug wants to run anyway.    There is a reason the day after the Strange pick when Doug and Baalke was taking questions on Strange, the first question asked was to Baalke and why he liked Strange so much to where he would take him in the 2nd.  He passed it right on to Doug and said I'll let Doug take this one.  Then Doug goes on and on about how much he loved Strange and he's been watching him for a while, knows the coaches etc.  It was a dead give away and you don't have to psychic to figure out Strange was Dougs guy.

(11-16-2023, 10:14 PM)Preach Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor isn't a bust (yet). But he certainly has not blossomed to the generational talent everyone thought he was. Has he had some remarkable plays? Sure. But he is grossly inconsistent.

Compared to what all the jaguars QBs have accomplished since after that great jags 90s team run was finished, Lawrence has  already done enough to not be a bust.

(11-17-2023, 12:02 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2023, 10:14 PM)Preach Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor isn't a bust (yet). But he certainly has not blossomed to the generational talent everyone thought he was. Has he had some remarkable plays? Sure. But he is grossly inconsistent.

Compared to what all the jaguars QBs have accomplished since after that great jags 90s team run was finished, Lawrence has  already done enough to not be a bust.

Dont think he will be a bust, but i dont know that he will ever be whatever the hell a generational talent is.

I thought strange has been improving quite nicely...

Rubbing a rookie off in year 1 is quite [BLEEP] tbh