(12-25-2023, 10:35 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]49ers wouldn't have lost a single game in the past 3 years if Lawrence was their QB.
I can't tell if you're being serious.
(12-25-2023, 10:41 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:35 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]49ers wouldn't have lost a single game in the past 3 years if Lawrence was their QB.
I can't tell if you're being serious.
Biggest homer on this board.
(12-25-2023, 10:37 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:00 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor might have better WR talent (when they're all actually on the field, which hasn't been often this season), but Mahomes has the best TE in the game. Who's arguably the best TE to ever play.
Mahomes also has a far better OL (Jags is easily the worst OL in the League) and a far better running game. He also has a better Defense than Trevor has.
There is no arguable. He's not the best TE ever. Gronk is.
Maybe if Gronk could stay healthy, but he couldn't. Which can't be over looked.
Gronk has four 1,000+ yard receiving seasons. Kelce is 32 yards away from his 8th straight 1,000+ yard receiving season.
(12-25-2023, 08:52 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 07:21 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Saying Mahomes also struggles without much wr talent doesn't mean one is saying lawrence is as good as mahomes. Point is if mahomes isn't good enough to overcome why should lawrence be able to? And mahomes situation is still better than lawrence. Much better oline.
Trevor has much better talent at WR than Mahomes. His O-line (KC) is better but not much better.
Also, implying Mahomes would not do better here than Trevor it's pretty much comparing them and saying they have a similar level. They don't.
KC line not much better? Lolololol. They have one of the best olines in the league. Not to mention they have maybe the GOAT TE. Rice is a pretty good WR as well
(12-25-2023, 10:06 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Just watching tonights game. It's 5 to 3. Turnovers. Running the ball. Tough defense. Good running lanes and pass protection.
Yet. I am supposed to crucify Lawrence for trying to make chicken salad out of chicken [BLEEP] out there.
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Theirs a big difference in the haters blaming Lawrence for the entirety of the Jaguars failures on offense, and then their are the logical fans who watch him under no pressure flat out throw a ball over the head of a wide open WR 10 or so yards down field and have the brain power to realize that the O line giving him no time 3 plays prior had nothing to do with the mistake that HE made on his own.
(12-25-2023, 10:44 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:37 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]There is no arguable. He's not the best TE ever. Gronk is.
Maybe if Gronk could stay healthy, but he couldn't. Which can't be over looked.
Gronk has four 1,000+ yard receiving seasons. Kelce is 32 yards away from his 8th straight 1,000+ yard receiving season.
Sure, but they aren't the same. Gronk was a machine that was basically unstoppable in the red zone and was a true blocking TE.
Kelce is a hall of famer and I'm not discounting his value to KC at all. I was just saying that I don't think it's arguable.
Edit: This isn't to say that Kelce won't eventually pass him. He's got a while left to play and he doesn't get injured like Gronk did.
(12-25-2023, 10:37 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-25-2023, 10:11 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]And Purdy, next league MVP (lol), playing for the all-Madden team has already tossed two picks.
Purdy, even with these interceptions, still has 31 total TDs and 12 total turnovers this year.
And that's the entire point. It's all because of the team around him.
Purdy can throw 3 INTs and his team will still keep him within 1 point. Trevor throws 1 INT and we're doomed because the team around him is garbage.
Not defending Lawrence. His turnovers are bad. Period. Has to get better. Hence the Josh Allen contract range talk earlier.
However. I just think it's funny that this team got it's [BLEEP] handed to it by both of these teams and they have VASTLY superior line play on both sides and VASTLY superior run games and defenses.
I am told I should lose all hope with a QB that's 24 years old in year 3 of his career and year 2 of this current staff after inheriting a team that was void of talent to the tune of getting the top pick in back to back drafts.
The 49ers were so talented they could overcome a bad trade deal they took on with Lance. The Ravens have been competent for years now. Thanks to good drafting that goes back to Ozzie Newsome.
But, yeah, let's beat Lawrence to death on a team that finished 9 - 8 last year and is 8 - 7 STILL hanging onto a divisional lead with a bum ankle, bum knee, concussion and now a bad shoulder.
Predominately due to playing behind a VASTLY inferior line with a VASTLY irrelevant running game where he's lead the team in rushing yardage at least twice this season and is technically now playing with his third different play caller in three straight years...
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(12-25-2023, 10:48 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:37 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]
Purdy, even with these interceptions, still has 31 total TDs and 12 total turnovers this year.
And that's the entire point. It's all because of the team around him.
Purdy can throw 3 INTs and his team will still keep him within 1 point. Trevor throws 1 INT and we're doomed because the team around him is garbage.
But that's not the issue people are having. The issue people are having is that Trevor is turning the ball over consistently. His decision making is poor right now, and that includes the overthrows and misreads.
Yes, a better team around him would hide some of these deficiencies. But they are still there and they need to be worked on. I'm tying Trevor directly to Doug. If Trevor doesn't fix those things, Doug needs to go.
(12-25-2023, 10:44 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 08:52 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor has much better talent at WR than Mahomes. His O-line (KC) is better but not much better.
Also, implying Mahomes would not do better here than Trevor it's pretty much comparing them and saying they have a similar level. They don't.
KC line not much better? Lolololol. They have one of the best olines in the league. Not to mention they have maybe the GOAT TE. Rice is a pretty good WR as well
It is not.... Mahomes makes their OL better than they are.
Mahomes has a better defense than Lawrence but offensively it isnt even close.
(12-25-2023, 10:47 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:44 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe if Gronk could stay healthy, but he couldn't. Which can't be over looked.
Gronk has four 1,000+ yard receiving seasons. Kelce is 32 yards away from his 8th straight 1,000+ yard receiving season.
Sure, but they aren't the same. Gronk was a machine that was basically unstoppable in the red zone and was a true blocking TE.
Kelce is a hall of famer and I'm not discounting his value to KC at all. I was just saying that I don't think it's arguable.
Edit: This isn't to say that Kelce won't eventually pass him. He's got a while left to play and he doesn't get injured like Gronk did.
To each their own brother, but I think it's definitely arguable.
(12-25-2023, 10:52 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:47 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, but they aren't the same. Gronk was a machine that was basically unstoppable in the red zone and was a true blocking TE.
Kelce is a hall of famer and I'm not discounting his value to KC at all. I was just saying that I don't think it's arguable.
Edit: This isn't to say that Kelce won't eventually pass him. He's got a while left to play and he doesn't get injured like Gronk did.
To each their own brother, but I think it's definitely arguable.
Gronk will lift Kelce over his head.
Only one way to settle this imo.
(12-25-2023, 10:50 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:48 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]And that's the entire point. It's all because of the team around him.
Purdy can throw 3 INTs and his team will still keep him within 1 point. Trevor throws 1 INT and we're doomed because the team around him is garbage.
But that's not the issue people are having. The issue people are having is that Trevor is turning the ball over consistently. His decision making is poor right now, and that includes the overthrows and misreads.
Yes, a better team around him would hide some of these deficiencies. But they are still there and they need to be worked on. I'm tying Trevor directly to Doug. If Trevor doesn't fix those things, Doug needs to go.
That's because Trevor is being forced to be the ENTIRE Offense here, while Purdy is just being asked to manage the Offense there. Trevor has to carry this team on his back, while Purdy just can't mess it up.
49ers have the most QB friendly system/team in the entire league. There's a reason why they keep winning no matter who they plug in at QB.
(12-25-2023, 10:49 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Not defending Lawrence. His turnovers are bad. Period. Has to get better. Hence the Josh Allen contract range talk earlier.
However. I just think it's funny that this team got it's [BLEEP] handed to it by both of these teams and they have VASTLY superior line play on both sides and VASTLY superior run games and defenses.
I am told I should lose all hope with a QB that's 24 years old in year 3 of his career and year 2 of this current staff after inheriting a team that was void of talent to the tune of getting the top pick in back to back drafts.
The 49ers were so talented they could overcome a bad trade deal they took on with Lance. The Ravens have been competent for years now. Thanks to good drafting that goes back to Ozzie Newsome.
But, yeah, let's beat Lawrence to death on a team that finished 9 - 8 last year and is 8 - 7 STILL hanging onto a divisional lead with a bum ankle, bum knee, concussion and now a bad shoulder.
Predominately due to playing behind a VASTLY inferior line with a VASTLY irrelevant running game where he's lead the team in rushing yardage at least twice this season and is technically now playing with his third different play caller in three straight years...
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We're 161 pages in.
There are three kinds of posters on this thread at this point: people that understand Trevor is good and seeing him unable to succeed when the entire team is breaking down around him won't change that reality, people who don't have any ability to separate the player from the statistical performance who will gyrate wildly between calling for Trevor's lionization and calling for his benching, and trolls that will show up when the circumstances allow to try to irritate people.
In any case there isn't a point in arguing about Trevor at this point. He's going to get paid and have a career as a starting NFL quarterback for as long as his health and desire allow for it.
(12-25-2023, 10:53 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:52 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]To each their own brother, but I think it's definitely arguable.
Gronk will lift Kelce over his head.
Only one way to settle this imo.
Not wrong about that (as long as his back would hold up), Gronk is/was an absolute freak of nature. You don't often see dudes 6'7 and 280 who could move like him. Big man has slimmed down since his playing days though.
(12-25-2023, 10:58 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:50 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]But that's not the issue people are having. The issue people are having is that Trevor is turning the ball over consistently. His decision making is poor right now, and that includes the overthrows and misreads.
Yes, a better team around him would hide some of these deficiencies. But they are still there and they need to be worked on. I'm tying Trevor directly to Doug. If Trevor doesn't fix those things, Doug needs to go.
That's because Trevor is being forced to be the ENTIRE Offense here, while Purdy is just being asked to manage the Offense there. Trevor has to carry this team on his back, while Purdy just can't mess it up.
49ers have the most QB friendly system/team in the entire league. There's a reason why they keep winning no matter who they plug in at QB.
Well, that's not entirely true. They've been good the last two years and Burdy has been a rockstar. They have only had three winning records since 2014 (2019, 2022, and 2023).
I get that Trevor is being asked to do a lot. And it's the reason I'm wanting to keep giving him a chance. But we can't make excuses for his bad decision-making.
(12-25-2023, 11:01 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 10:58 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]That's because Trevor is being forced to be the ENTIRE Offense here, while Purdy is just being asked to manage the Offense there. Trevor has to carry this team on his back, while Purdy just can't mess it up.
49ers have the most QB friendly system/team in the entire league. There's a reason why they keep winning no matter who they plug in at QB.
Well, that's not entirely true. They've been good the last two years and Burdy has been a rockstar. They have only had three winning records since 2014 (2019, 2022, and 2023).
I get that Trevor is being asked to do a lot. And it's the reason I'm wanting to keep giving him a chance. But we can't make excuses for his bad decision-making.
I'm talking about since Shanahan has been the HC with his system. His first two years weren't that great, but his teams have been pretty damn good since, regardless who the QBs were.
He made Jim G look like a half way decent QB and I wish Trey Lance could have stayed healthy because I would have loved to see him actually get a chance in that system. Injuries took that away from him sadly.
edit: They had a winning season in 2021 as well. They've had winning seasons in 4 of their last 5.
(12-25-2023, 11:16 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2023, 11:01 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]Well, that's not entirely true. They've been good the last two years and Burdy has been a rockstar. They have only had three winning records since 2014 (2019, 2022, and 2023).
I get that Trevor is being asked to do a lot. And it's the reason I'm wanting to keep giving him a chance. But we can't make excuses for his bad decision-making.
I'm talking about since Shanahan has been the HC with his system. His first two years weren't that great, but his teams have been pretty damn good since, regardless who the QBs were.
He made Jim G look like a half way decent QB and I wish Trey Lance could have stayed healthy because I would have loved to see him actually get a chance in that system. Injuries took that away from him sadly.
edit: They had a winning season in 2021 as well. They've had winning seasons in 4 of their last 5.
Purdy has been statistically impressive. He plays from ahead like a freight train. As long as everyone around him is winning he looks great.
Arguing about purdy is pointless. He's a good QB, just not a great one. He's living proof that more QB success has to do with support than anything else.
I'm still mad that we took Taven Bryan over Lamar.
Purdy looking worse against the ravens than lawrence. Even with a much better oline, running game, tight end, wrs, play caller, head coach, etc....