(09-25-2023, 11:13 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2023, 10:31 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure what qualifies as "bashing", but some here are overly defensive and take ANY criticism of Trevor's play as just that. The "elite" moniker got tossed around quite a bit earlier in this thread and his play so far has yet to support it. As you said about last week "just good to above average"
Comparing his stats to those of Burrow, or anyone else, over just three games is fairly meaningless. Far better to take an objective look at his actual play, did he spot the open receiver, deliver the ball accurately, make the best decision, etc.
I think he's good now, I hope he develops into elite.
He's off to a shaky start this season in some regard - and this line might make it tough for him all year. But I'd wager he'll log enough "elite" level performances this year to ink a huge deal in the offseason that we Jags fans will look back on as a wise move when we are deciding what to where to the Super Bowl parade at some point in the next decade.
It's fair to have your stance. Totally fair.
I just don't have a problem embracing the fact that his (already displayed) upside is better than anything we've seen on a Jags roster at QB. Ever. Get him a line and you'll get the consistency you seek. Until then it may be a bit erratic at times.
No disagreement there, with the possible exception of Brunell. Though you gotta admit the bar really hasn't been set very high in a long time.
I think he'll progress gradually throughout the season. Hopefully, yesterday was the outlier and as a team we're back on track this Sunday.
GUYS. Remember, no matter what happens this Sunday. It's all on Trevor. Even if it's perfectly placed passes being dropped with the perfect calls and two defenders perfectly snapping him in half due to "good enough" line play.
Remember. Doesn't matter. It's all on him. He has to execute everything to perfection. He has to play above the X's and O's. Even when the ball is not in his hands or related to his specific side of the football.
If he's not Mr. Perfect himself. Chucking 50 yard bombs up like a punt and then running a 3.5 40 time to outrun the defenders himself and catch it himself? His fault.
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(09-25-2023, 03:28 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]2 big Ridley drops, 2 Ridley False Starts, Agnew Fumble, Blocked FG, Missed FG, Hands to the face by Scherff ending a new set of downs, Kick off return for a TD, Multiple illegal formation penalties...
All Lawrence's fault btw LOL!!
This sounds like a sloppy, undisciplined team.
I don't have the prescription for a magical cure-all tonic that will fix these woes. They are gonna have to put in work and hold each other accountable. We know that much of this team is the same as last year, so yeah, I'm confident that the ship can be righted. But they gotta get their heads outta their butts or the newspapers, whichever is leading them astray.
(09-25-2023, 06:32 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2023, 03:28 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]2 big Ridley drops, 2 Ridley False Starts, Agnew Fumble, Blocked FG, Missed FG, Hands to the face by Scherff ending a new set of downs, Kick off return for a TD, Multiple illegal formation penalties...
All Lawrence's fault btw LOL!!
Don’t forget our #1 pick overall has 1 sack in his first 3 games of the 2023 season.
....meanwhile Hutch putting in work.
I guess we couldn't get lightning to strike in consecutive seasons.
(09-26-2023, 08:55 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2023, 03:28 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]2 big Ridley drops, 2 Ridley False Starts, Agnew Fumble, Blocked FG, Missed FG, Hands to the face by Scherff ending a new set of downs, Kick off return for a TD, Multiple illegal formation penalties...
All Lawrence's fault btw LOL!!
This sounds like a sloppy, undisciplined team.
I don't have the prescription for a magical cure-all tonic that will fix these woes. They are gonna have to put in work and hold each other accountable. We know that much of this team is the same as last year, so yeah, I'm confident that the ship can be righted. But they gotta get their heads outta their butts or the newspapers, whichever is leading them astray.
(09-25-2023, 06:32 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Don’t forget our #1 pick overall has 1 sack in his first 3 games of the 2023 season.
....meanwhile Hutch putting in work.
I guess we couldn't get lightning to strike in consecutive seasons.
Hutch is playing well, but TFL's often get overlooked and Travon has 4 plus the 1 sack for a total of 5 negative yardage plays. Hutch has 2 sacks and 1 TFL as well as a FF. Yes the sacks mean the QB got hit/tackled which can add up over the course of the game to help rattle the opposing QB/offense and sacking the QB is exciting, but the net result of a sack and TFL is the same. And yes I would take Hutch's stat line to date over Travon's even considering the TFL difference, but Travon is not necessarily playing poorly. He does need to start getting to the QB, however. I'm willing to give him to the halfway point before seriously questioning the pick considering his circumstances and athleticism. He is very likely not yet who he is going to be a year or two from now.
(09-26-2023, 01:06 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]GUYS. Remember, no matter what happens this Sunday. It's all on Trevor. Even if it's perfectly placed passes being dropped with the perfect calls and two defenders perfectly snapping him in half due to "good enough" line play.
Remember. Doesn't matter. It's all on him. He has to execute everything to perfection. He has to play above the X's and O's. Even when the ball is not in his hands or related to his specific side of the football.
If he's not Mr. Perfect himself. Chucking 50 yard bombs up like a punt and then running a 3.5 40 time to outrun the defenders himself and catch it himself? His fault.
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It's like people blaming Mahomes for the Chiefs week 1 performance.
Trevor missed some throws week 2, but he was hitting these guys in the hands this week.
(09-26-2023, 10:24 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2023, 01:06 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]GUYS. Remember, no matter what happens this Sunday. It's all on Trevor. Even if it's perfectly placed passes being dropped with the perfect calls and two defenders perfectly snapping him in half due to "good enough" line play.
Remember. Doesn't matter. It's all on him. He has to execute everything to perfection. He has to play above the X's and O's. Even when the ball is not in his hands or related to his specific side of the football.
If he's not Mr. Perfect himself. Chucking 50 yard bombs up like a punt and then running a 3.5 40 time to outrun the defenders himself and catch it himself? His fault.
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It's like people blaming Mahomes for the Chiefs week 1 performance.
Trevor missed some throws week 2, but he was hitting these guys in the hands this week.
It really is all execution.
Tackle the FULLBACK on a short directional kickoff and we are probably getting the ball back. Dropped TD by Ridley. Untimely penalty by Scherff. Blown coverage by the DBs for a Dell TD. Dropped 3rd down passes.
They have legit beaten themselves these last 2 weeks which, for me, is something that can easily be corrected.
The Oline needs work and the pass rush was non existent on Sunday. That won't be easily corrected but all these weird plays? Those will turn around.
(09-26-2023, 01:06 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]GUYS. Remember, no matter what happens this Sunday. It's all on Trevor. Even if it's perfectly placed passes being dropped with the perfect calls and two defenders perfectly snapping him in half due to "good enough" line play.
Remember. Doesn't matter. It's all on him. He has to execute everything to perfection. He has to play above the X's and O's. Even when the ball is not in his hands or related to his specific side of the football.
If he's not Mr. Perfect himself. Chucking 50 yard bombs up like a punt and then running a 3.5 40 time to outrun the defenders himself and catch it himself? His fault.
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It's time for him to contribute on special teams too. He doesn't have the beef for the line, but with his height, I want to see him vaulting over the pile and getting his arms up to block a field goal.
Never forget, you can criticise Lawrence but we nearly had Zach Wilson!
Puts things a bit more into perspective.
(09-26-2023, 02:59 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/theStevenRuiz/status...10418?s=20
Yes and no. He isn't terrible, but he is also not playing very well. What I see on the film isn't exactly what I would call "cook" tier. He's definitely doing some good things but overall body of work is pretty mid. Remember, if we are to take this QB as a top tier, elite level QB this is the standard I am grading off of. He is not playing well if you consider him a top 5 QB in this league, he just isn't.
(09-27-2023, 03:28 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2023, 02:59 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/theStevenRuiz/status...10418?s=20
Yes and no. He isn't terrible, but he is also not playing very well. What I see on the film isn't exactly what I would call "cook" tier. He's definitely doing some good things but overall body of work is pretty mid. Remember, if we are to take this QB as a top tier, elite level QB this is the standard I am grading off of. He is not playing well if you consider him a top 5 QB in this league, he just isn't.
6 dropped TD passes says otherwise. He's played well enough to win all 3 games, his supporting cast has been atrocious.
(09-27-2023, 03:43 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2023, 03:28 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes and no. He isn't terrible, but he is also not playing very well. What I see on the film isn't exactly what I would call "cook" tier. He's definitely doing some good things but overall body of work is pretty mid. Remember, if we are to take this QB as a top tier, elite level QB this is the standard I am grading off of. He is not playing well if you consider him a top 5 QB in this league, he just isn't.
6 dropped TD passes says otherwise. He's played well enough to win all 3 games, his supporting cast has been atrocious.
He's making elite throws at times but isnt consistent enough throughout the game. But he is still young and learning....
We certainly are a much suckier team without Lawrence on the squad that's for sure. I wouldn't rank him a top 5 QB yet though.
The biggest worry for me is at times he is starring the number 1 read too much and also when he steps in the pocket his footwork isn't great.
(09-27-2023, 02:31 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Never forget, you can criticise Lawrence but we nearly had Zach Wilson!
Puts things a bit more into perspective.
I think Urban would have preferred Justin Fields but I'm not sure that would have been better.
(09-27-2023, 03:28 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2023, 02:59 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/theStevenRuiz/status...10418?s=20
Yes and no. He isn't terrible, but he is also not playing very well. What I see on the film isn't exactly what I would call "cook" tier. He's definitely doing some good things but overall body of work is pretty mid. Remember, if we are to take this QB as a top tier, elite level QB this is the standard I am grading off of. He is not playing well if you consider him a top 5 QB in this league, he just isn't.
Who's your top 5?
Because if Burrow is on that list....
Mahomes has 800 yards 7 TDs and 2 interceptions.
Allen has 728 yards 5 TDs and 4 interceptions.
Burrow has 563 yards with 2 TDs and 2 interceptions.
Lamar has 600 yards with 2 TDs and 1 interception.
Herbert (killin it passing) 900 yards 6 TDs no interceptions
Trevor 736 yards 3 TDs 2 interceptions.
Let's also factor in Trevor has the 3rd fastest time to throw, leads the league in pass catcher drops, and has had multiple TDs dropped/feet not in bounds.
I'm not saying Trevor is playing perfect ball by any means but my god this has been the most unlucky start to a season I've seen.
Lawrence is little of my concern. Surprised if anybody else outside of the 10% "NeVeR tReVoR" crowd feel concerned for him.
He bounced back from the KC game. Unfortunately. Ridley, Agnew, Scherff and Special Teams had not.
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As far as top 5? After 3 weeks.
1. Tagovailoa
2. Mahomes
3. Hurts
4. Goff
5. Purdy
Lawrence falls anywhere between 6th - 10th in most channels.
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(09-27-2023, 06:17 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]As far as top 5? After 3 weeks.
1. Tagovailoa
2. Mahomes
3. Hurts
4. Goff
5. Purdy
Lawrence falls anywhere between 6th - 10th in most channels.
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I'd replace Goff with Cousins
(09-27-2023, 06:17 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]As far as top 5? After 3 weeks.
1. Tagovailoa
2. Mahomes
3. Hurts
4. Goff
5. Purdy
Lawrence falls anywhere between 6th - 10th in most channels.
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And to be honest, 6 through 10, given our talent and franchise history is an amazing thing to be for Lawrence.
Besides that TD catch by Zay against the clots in the corner of the End Zone, these receivers have not been doing Trevor Lawrence or this team any favors. Lawrence is putting the ball where it needs to be most of the time. Yeah, his head clock is wound a bit fast and he's missed a few open recievers because he locked onto his first read, but even when he did lock on, he's mostly been on time and accurate and it was the receiver that messed up the play.
I don't want to harp on what the coaching was doing in the summer. But it just seems odd how everything looked and sounded so great in July and August, and then when "the bullets became live" we've basically pooped the bed. Some say it's the player's fault. Some same the coaches didn't properly prepare the players...
Either way, the one player that should not be under scrutiny is #16. And anyone that is trying to blame him doesn't understand the game. While yes, the most important piece of any team is the QB. If the QB doesn't get help, the whole thing breaks down. At this point, Trevor Lawrence isn't getting any help.
(09-27-2023, 06:40 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2023, 06:17 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]As far as top 5? After 3 weeks.
1. Tagovailoa
2. Mahomes
3. Hurts
4. Goff
5. Purdy
Lawrence falls anywhere between 6th - 10th in most channels.
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And to be honest, 6 through 10, given our talent and franchise history is an amazing thing to be for Lawrence.
Besides that TD catch by Zay against the clots in the corner of the End Zone, these receivers have not been doing Trevor Lawrence or this team any favors. Lawrence is putting the ball where it needs to be most of the time. Yeah, his head clock is wound a bit fast and he's missed a few open recievers because he locked onto his first read, but even when he did lock on, he's mostly been on time and accurate and it was the receiver that messed up the play.
I don't want to harp on what the coaching was doing in the summer. But it just seems odd how everything looked and sounded so great in July and August, and then when "the bullets became live" we've basically pooped the bed. Some say it's the player's fault. Some same the coaches didn't properly prepare the players...
Either way, the one player that should not be under scrutiny is #16. And anyone that is trying to blame him doesn't understand the game. While yes, the most important piece of any team is the QB. If the QB doesn't get help, the whole thing breaks down. At this point, Trevor Lawrence isn't getting any help.
Well yeah but he isn't helping himself and making his job easier. He has more weapons than Ridley....Engram has been open consistently and the guy ignores his biggest target on the team