(12-18-2023, 11:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 11:27 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't think anyone is saying that, but the idea that he's not going to get a second contract here is silly. He's a franchise guy and he'll likely play all his meaningful years here. If he were to go to the Market he would easily set the record for largest QB deal in history in a bidding war like none we've seen before.
That guy is asking who can do better, pretty much implying no one can.
Is Trevor elite? no
Does Trevor suck? no
is he good enough to win a SB? yes but he needs a really good team around him
Is he a special QB? imo no
at least this is a meaningful response.
With regard to that qualifier, note that Peyton didn't win an SB until he had the good fortune of playing opposite Sexy Rexy and even then his stats were unimpressive. The SB in Denver they won in spite of him. Most every QB needs a really good team around them to win an SB. After watching Lamar last night? If he's in that shape in February, he could probably win with the rest of the Panthers roster around him.
If anyone on this board thinks we're just going to luck into the next Lamar (who has yet to even get to the big game, mind you) and have a superhuman guy that can singlehandedly carry a franchise to a Lombardi is on some pretty good hallucinogenics. Chances are you end up with the next Mac Jones or Kenny Pickett, and wallow around for another 3-4 years for a chance at a guy who can get you thinking he just might be the next Justin Herbert. This ubermensch that needs no help is a unicorn. The road will be very bumpy to get to that destination.
(12-18-2023, 12:08 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 12:01 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]No clue, so he hid it during the game.
Or it got him out of talking to the media.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
I mean, no player in the NFL is going to say "hey coach I hit my head on that last play, can you guys check me for a concussion?"
no, but the refs sometimes will, if they see contact. (See: Stanley, Ronnie)
(12-18-2023, 04:22 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 03:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'd love for Lawrence to be "elite" one day.
(even though that means 16 different things to 17 given people)
But I'd totally just settle for the whole offense getting through 60 minutes of football without shooting themselves in the foot with dumb mistakes. That'd be a great start.
Then maybe we could work on doing that 2 weeks in a row.
Baby steps and that.
Wins, play-off appearances > individual stats. Plenty of elite players in this league doing great things on gamedays only to fall short.
Fantasy football has worried this sport for a lot of fans. Just give me a well rounded football team that can show up and give us more complete games.
If you're a good team? You have to show it over these next three weeks. No excuses. Nobody wants to hear about the injuries this late into the season. Everybody has them.
You managed eight wins, you need to scrape up at least two more to have a shot at the play-off's, maybe the AFC South title again for the second year in a row.
Agreed. Brady and Mahomes have really skewed QB perception. What they have achieved is exceptional but now its expected. Only one team can win it all and its down to the team. O's will win you games, D will, ST will, you need contributions from all over. Look at QB's like Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers. Great QB's that had lengthy careers and played on some great teams but it's 1, 1, 2 and 0 SB wins. You need a lot of things to go your way.
It's a thought I've been having most of the day, injuries, pressure, expectations, adversity, those are all things the top teams face and have to overcome. This is new to us but something we are going to have to learn to overcome and overcome it quickly. The road to the SB is never easy and while I don't think we are that team yet, we are closer to being in that category than some think. We're going to get teams best shot now.
The craziest thing is we could have had Lamar Jackson. I remember being so annoyed when we passed on him.
Then we wouldn't have had Trevor.
(12-18-2023, 03:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 03:28 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]We have a talented roster. Oline rankings are probably the hardest to evaulate in football
You have no problem insulting fan after fan after fan because they don't share your negative take on certain players, but ranking NFL offensive lines is too hard for you.
Interesting tack you are steering here.
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
A good QB masks poor offensive line play.
An elite QB elevates his OLine.
Feel free to disagree.
(12-18-2023, 06:20 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 03:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You have no problem insulting fan after fan after fan because they don't share your negative take on certain players, but ranking NFL offensive lines is too hard for you.
Interesting tack you are steering here.
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
A good QB masks poor offensive line play.
An elite QB elevates his OLine.
Feel free to disagree.
you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.
Our 8 wins are Trevor making the line look good.
I don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about good vs elite. Call him whatever the [BLEEP] you want.
I'll ask again:
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
Feel free to answer the [BLEEP] question this time.
(12-18-2023, 06:20 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 03:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You have no problem insulting fan after fan after fan because they don't share your negative take on certain players, but ranking NFL offensive lines is too hard for you.
Interesting tack you are steering here.
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
A good QB masks poor offensive line play.
An elite QB elevates his OLine.
Feel free to disagree.
Not that PFF is the end all be all of team analysis... But check this out:
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-...-rankings/
The Jaguars and the Dolphins are in the bottom 3rd of the NFL in terms of O-Lines...
Conversely, Atlanta is top 10 in O-Lines...
Oh the clots? Also top 10, graded as 4th best. And we [BLEEP] toasted them both times we played them...
Yet look at how well the clots are playing now. And the Dolphins are a cinch for the playoffs. Meanwhile, while we may not have a great O-Line, our O-Line is similarly as bad as the Dolphins, and yet the Dolphin's offense is still very dynamic... Even with Tyree Hill out, they put the beat down on a Jet's D that is one of the great D's of the league...
Oh, and the Vikings also have a top 10 O-Line, and yet we have a better record they that team.
An O-Line, while important, can still be successful if the offensive scheme and play calling can keep defenses guessing. When an offense is easy to read, it completely exposes the Line.
(12-18-2023, 06:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:20 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]A good QB masks poor offensive line play.
An elite QB elevates his OLine.
Feel free to disagree.
you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.
Our 8 wins are Trevor making the line look good.
I don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about good vs elite. Call him whatever the [BLEEP] you want.
I'll ask again:
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
Feel free to answer the [BLEEP] question this time.
So when Trevor does good is only on Trevor but when he does bad it's the OLine ?
Don't you guys get tired of the same dumb [BLEEP] argument????
My rankings dont really matter. Wether I think this OLine is good or bad doesn't freaking matter. We are not LOSING games solely because of OLine play. Are Trevors mental errors on the field because of our oline???
I can name bunch of elite QBs that had horrible line throughout their careers....
Example: Andrew Luck put together 3 seasons of excellency behind Grigson's deathtrap.
Eli won a super bowl with the 28th ranked offensive line in 2011.
Ben Rothlisberger had made a career by scrambling around. He he won 2 rings by playing school yard ball...
Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Dan Marino and the list goes on
(12-18-2023, 06:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:20 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]A good QB masks poor offensive line play.
An elite QB elevates his OLine.
Feel free to disagree.
you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.
Our 8 wins are Trevor making the line look good.
I don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about good vs elite. Call him whatever the [BLEEP] you want.
I'll ask again:
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
Feel free to answer the [BLEEP] question this time.
I'm just going to repeat this for you:
Not that PFF is the end all be all of team analysis... But check this out: ?https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-...-rankings/
The Jaguars and the Dolphins are in the bottom 3rd of the NFL in terms of O-Lines...
Conversely, Atlanta is top 10 in O-Lines...
Oh the clots? Also top 10, graded as 4th best. And we [BLEEP] toasted them both times we played them...
Yet look at how well the clots are playing now. And the Dolphins are a cinch for the playoffs. Meanwhile, while we may not have a great O-Line, our O-Line is similarly as bad as the Dolphins, and yet the Dolphin's offense is still very dynamic... Even with Tyree Hill out, they put the beat down on a Jet's D that is one of the great D's of the league...
Oh, and the Vikings also have a top 10 O-Line, and yet we have a better record they that team.
An O-Line, while important, can still be successful if the offensive scheme and play calling can keep defenses guessing. When an offense is easy to read, it completely exposes
(12-18-2023, 06:51 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:20 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]A good QB masks poor offensive line play.
An elite QB elevates his OLine.
Feel free to disagree.
Not that PFF is the end all be all of team analysis... But check this out: https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-...-rankings/
The Jaguars and the Dolphins are in the bottom 3rd of the NFL in terms of O-Lines...
Conversely, Atlanta is top 10 in O-Lines...
Oh the clots? Also top 10, graded as 4th best. And we [BLEEP] toasted them both times we played them...
Yet look at how well the clots are playing now. And the Dolphins are a cinch for the playoffs. Meanwhile, while we may not have a great O-Line, our O-Line is similarly as bad as the Dolphins, and yet the Dolphin's offense is still very dynamic... Even with Tyree Hill out, they put the beat down on a Jet's D that is one of the great D's of the league...
Oh, and the Vikings also have a top 10 O-Line, and yet we have a better record they that team.
An O-Line, while important, can still be successful if the offensive scheme and play calling can keep defenses guessing. When an offense is easy to read, it completely exposes the Line.
Thank you for posting this.
Which exactly what I said, ranking Oline is a crap shoot but people seem to forget that a great QB can magically make an oline work and its also his responbility too.....
(12-18-2023, 06:52 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.
Our 8 wins are Trevor making the line look good.
I don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about good vs elite. Call him whatever the [BLEEP] you want.
I'll ask again:
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
Feel free to answer the [BLEEP] question this time.
So when Trevor does good is only on Trevor but when he does bad it's the OLine ?
Don't you guys get tired of the same dumb [BLEEP] argument????
My rankings dont really matter. Wether I think this OLine is good or bad doesn't freaking matter. We are not LOSING games solely because of OLine play. Are Trevors mental errors on the field because of our oline???
I can name bunch of elite QBs that had horrible line throughout their careers....
Example: Andrew Luck put together 3 seasons of excellency behind Grigson's deathtrap.
[font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', sans-serif]Eli won a super bowl with the 28th ranked offensive[/font] line in 2011.
[font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', sans-serif]Ben Rothlisberger had made a career by scrambling around. He he won 2 rings by playing school yard ball...[/font]
Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Dan Marino and the list goes on
Don't put words in my mouth dip [BLEEP].
I asked you a simple question.
I'm all over this board calling TL out when he makes mistakes and I also realize he's not a transcendent player that will consistently overcome bad OL play. There are very few of those QBs and he isn't one. No idea if he ever will be.
I think his future is bright regardless, but for what this staff is asking of him, and without a viable run game, he needs better protection.
And Luck is out of the league because of that [BLEEP] show OL you are propping up as probably the worst example on the planet. The reason I harp on this line is precisely to prevent that occurrence here.
(12-18-2023, 06:56 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:51 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Not that PFF is the end all be all of team analysis... But check this out: https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-...-rankings/
The Jaguars and the Dolphins are in the bottom 3rd of the NFL in terms of O-Lines...
Conversely, Atlanta is top 10 in O-Lines...
Oh the clots? Also top 10, graded as 4th best. And we [BLEEP] toasted them both times we played them...
Yet look at how well the clots are playing now. And the Dolphins are a cinch for the playoffs. Meanwhile, while we may not have a great O-Line, our O-Line is similarly as bad as the Dolphins, and yet the Dolphin's offense is still very dynamic... Even with Tyree Hill out, they put the beat down on a Jet's D that is one of the great D's of the league...
Oh, and the Vikings also have a top 10 O-Line, and yet we have a better record they that team.
An O-Line, while important, can still be successful if the offensive scheme and play calling can keep defenses guessing. When an offense is easy to read, it completely exposes the Line.
Thank you for posting this.
Which exactly what I said, ranking Oline is a crap shoot but people seem to forget that a great QB can magically make an oline work and its also his responbility too.....
Coaching, game planning, play calling is also a big factor that many here ignore... Lawrence has been doing the best he can. But there's a so many factors that have resulted in him not playing at his full potential. The O-Line is only a fraction of those reasons.
(12-18-2023, 06:20 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 03:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You have no problem insulting fan after fan after fan because they don't share your negative take on certain players, but ranking NFL offensive lines is too hard for you.
Interesting tack you are steering here.
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
A good QB masks poor offensive line play.
An elite QB elevates his OLine.
Feel free to disagree.
So is Mahomes not elite?
His Oline got cooked in the SB against the Bucs….
Look. There are a multitude of things that has gone wrong this year. Trevor, in most games, isn’t the problem. Now he does turn the ball over too much for my liking…. Yes. But without him? This team would barely score 10 points each and every week.
(09-24-2023, 04:19 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2023, 04:10 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]No line protection for sure. Trevor missed some throws and there was drops. Commentator even mentioned he missed open guys they even showed some replays but maybe hes getting gun shy from the protection idk. I just know Stroud looked much better today.
I mean my goodness … on tank dells two deep balls they were complete busts ! No safety in the middle of the field corner outside leverage so he can just run a skinny post and completely get behind the defense ? Are we serious? And the TD what the heck have we never played a bunch set before ?
Multiple other receivers with no one in the vicinity and 0 pressure on a Backup o line ?
Watch stroud will end up looking like every other rookie QB for most of the rest of the year ….
We just managed to make a game so easy for a rookie it looked like he was playing against Rutgers when he was at Ohio state…
Pathetic .
Heads need to roll for this . At least figure out who wants to man up and do their fricking jobs . What these grown men are getting paid to sticking do .
(12-18-2023, 07:02 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:56 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for posting this.
Which exactly what I said, ranking Oline is a crap shoot but people seem to forget that a great QB can magically make an oline work and its also his responbility too.....
Coaching, game planning, play calling is also a big factor that many here ignore... Lawrence has been doing the best he can. But there's a so many factors that have resulted in him not playing at his full potential. The O-Line is only a fraction of those reasons.
It's not a fraction its at least half the reason.
(12-18-2023, 07:02 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:56 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for posting this.
Which exactly what I said, ranking Oline is a crap shoot but people seem to forget that a great QB can magically make an oline work and its also his responbility too.....
Coaching, game planning, play calling is also a big factor that many here ignore... Lawrence has been doing the best he can. But there's a so many factors that have resulted in him not playing at his full potential. The O-Line is only a fraction of those reasons.
But yet this board seem to solely blame the OLine for his shortcomings.
Go figure.
(12-18-2023, 06:55 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.
Our 8 wins are Trevor making the line look good.
I don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about good vs elite. Call him whatever the [BLEEP] you want.
I'll ask again:
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
Feel free to answer the [BLEEP] question this time.
I'm just going to repeat this for you:
Not that PFF is the end all be all of team analysis... But check this out: ?https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-...-rankings/
The Jaguars and the Dolphins are in the bottom 3rd of the NFL in terms of O-Lines...
Conversely, Atlanta is top 10 in O-Lines...
Oh the clots? Also top 10, graded as 4th best. And we [BLEEP] toasted them both times we played them...
Yet look at how well the clots are playing now. And the Dolphins are a cinch for the playoffs. Meanwhile, while we may not have a great O-Line, our O-Line is similarly as bad as the Dolphins, and yet the Dolphin's offense is still very dynamic... Even with Tyree Hill out, they put the beat down on a Jet's D that is one of the great D's of the league...
Oh, and the Vikings also have a top 10 O-Line, and yet we have a better record they that team.
An O-Line, while important, can still be successful if the offensive scheme and play calling can keep defenses guessing. When an offense is easy to read, it completely exposes
The Dolphins, Tua and Mike McDaniel's system are a very interesting outlier to study.
You should look into the differences between McDaniel's scheme and Pederson's.
Tua does a better job of hitting Hill and Waddle with very little pocket time than Trevor does targeting Ridley and Kirk etc with his similar low time.
I also don't need you to show me PFF grades in order for me to see with my own damn eyeballs what mistakes our offense is making due to pressure and poor blocking. They make plenty of other errors, but this is significant and has been a consistent undercurrent in the vast majority of our games including last night even though you ridiculously tried to claim otherwise.
We have a QB whose comp percentage is going to suffer when he can't operate on schedule more consistently.
He's not Mahomes, he's not Lamar, and there's only so much improvisation in his bag of tricks.
Is what it is.
You can compare him or the line to others, but this is OUR situation.
(12-18-2023, 07:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:55 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just going to repeat this for you:
Not that PFF is the end all be all of team analysis... But check this out: ?https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-...-rankings/
The Jaguars and the Dolphins are in the bottom 3rd of the NFL in terms of O-Lines...
Conversely, Atlanta is top 10 in O-Lines...
Oh the clots? Also top 10, graded as 4th best. And we [BLEEP] toasted them both times we played them...
Yet look at how well the clots are playing now. And the Dolphins are a cinch for the playoffs. Meanwhile, while we may not have a great O-Line, our O-Line is similarly as bad as the Dolphins, and yet the Dolphin's offense is still very dynamic... Even with Tyree Hill out, they put the beat down on a Jet's D that is one of the great D's of the league...
Oh, and the Vikings also have a top 10 O-Line, and yet we have a better record they that team.
An O-Line, while important, can still be successful if the offensive scheme and play calling can keep defenses guessing. When an offense is easy to read, it completely exposes
The Dolphins, Tua and Mike McDaniel's system are a very interesting outlier to study.
You should look into the differences between McDaniel's scheme and Pederson's.
Pederson's schemes last year were pretty similar... We were dynamic. We ran pre-snap motions. We did crossers and ran deep routes constantly after the bye.
This year's schemes with Press?
Bro...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSvJaYxRoB4
The reason we are in this situation is because we've decided to stop playing a modern NFL offense. It's not the O-Line that's the problem. It's the fact that we put a new guy in as the OC that is coaching a system that is not capable of being successful given the talent and weaknesses of the team.
The fact that you can't see that isn't our fault.
(12-18-2023, 07:15 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 07:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The Dolphins, Tua and Mike McDaniel's system are a very interesting outlier to study.
You should look into the differences between McDaniel's scheme and Pederson's.
Pederson's schemes last year were pretty similar... We were dynamic. We ran pre-snap motions. We did crossers and ran deep routes constantly after the bye.
This year's schemes with Press?
Bro...
Oh, sorry, I forgot this stuff was way over your head.
(12-18-2023, 07:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 07:15 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Pederson's schemes last year were pretty similar... We were dynamic. We ran pre-snap motions. We did crossers and ran deep routes constantly after the bye.
This year's schemes with Press?
Bro...
Oh, sorry, I forgot this stuff was way over your head.
Right. It's over my head.
Our offensive schemes, play calls, routes, and philosophy have changed from this year compared to 2022. But it's over my head... OK...
Edit: The reason we are in this situation is because we've decided to stop playing a modern NFL offense. It's not the O-Line that's the problem. It's the fact that we put a new guy in as the OC that is coaching a system that is not capable of being successful given the talent and weaknesses of the team.
The fact that you can't see that isn't my fault.