(12-18-2023, 07:06 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:20 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]A good QB masks poor offensive line play.
An elite QB elevates his OLine.
Feel free to disagree.
So is Mahomes not elite?
His Oline got cooked in the SB against the Bucs….
Look. There are a multitude of things that has gone wrong this year. Trevor, in most games, isn’t the problem. Now he does turn the ball over too much for my liking…. Yes. But without him? This team would barely score 10 points each and every week.
Our o line sucks, but that was something else. He was pressured on something in the 90% of plays. It was ridiculous. He was facing the best pass rush in the NFL with nobodies starting at both tackles, it's not remotely comparable. But to answer your question, he made multiple insane throws while being slung to the ground that could have been TDs if the WRs didnt drop the passes.
(12-18-2023, 06:52 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.
Our 8 wins are Trevor making the line look good.
I don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about good vs elite. Call him whatever the [BLEEP] you want.
I'll ask again:
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
Feel free to answer the [BLEEP] question this time.
So when Trevor does good is only on Trevor but when he does bad it's the OLine ?
Don't you guys get tired of the same dumb [BLEEP] argument????
This thread in two sentences.
(12-18-2023, 07:00 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:52 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]So when Trevor does good is only on Trevor but when he does bad it's the OLine ?
Don't you guys get tired of the same dumb [BLEEP] argument????
My rankings dont really matter. Wether I think this OLine is good or bad doesn't freaking matter. We are not LOSING games solely because of OLine play. Are Trevors mental errors on the field because of our oline???
I can name bunch of elite QBs that had horrible line throughout their careers....
Example: Andrew Luck put together 3 seasons of excellency behind Grigson's deathtrap.
[font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', sans-serif]Eli won a super bowl with the 28th ranked offensive[/font] line in 2011.
[font=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', sans-serif]Ben Rothlisberger had made a career by scrambling around. He he won 2 rings by playing school yard ball...[/font]
Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Dan Marino and the list goes on
Don't put words in my mouth dip [BLEEP].
I asked you a simple question.
I'm all over this board calling TL out when he makes mistakes and I also realize he's not a transcendent player that will consistently overcome bad OL play. There are very few of those QBs and he isn't one. No idea if he ever will be.
I think his future is bright regardless, but for what this staff is asking of him, and without a viable run game, he needs better protection.
And Luck is out of the league because of that [BLEEP] show OL you are propping up as probably the worst example on the planet. The reason I harp on this line is precisely to prevent that occurrence here.
Your posting in this forum will keep TL from getting injured? Ok… If only all the world’s problems were so easily solved with keyboards, pizza boxes and empty Coke cans.
This is a 3-14, maybe 4-13 win team without Trevor.
The Ravens Oline looked pretty bad in pass pro in the game, but the diference is Lamar Killed us when he had a chance and Trevor didn't kill the ravens when he had the chance...but we have to consider that Lamar is older and more experienced, so Trevor is going to learn from this games, he is fine.
Last night they said the Defense goes as far as Josh Allen goes and Trevor is the same for the offense.
He is our franchise QB, and we got to remember that he still very young (24)
I just don’t get the discourse here. It’s fair to criticize him and certain plays. We all do it.
But do we just dismiss the Bengals game? He was incredible.Then he plays the 2 best defenses in the league in back to back weeks. In one of those games he puts up 27 points only to see the defense lose the game and in the other, the team makes so many mental mistakes. All while having a bum ankle and knee.
I guess it comes with the position but to see so many people flip flop about him weekly is exhausting.
(12-18-2023, 07:41 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:52 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]So when Trevor does good is only on Trevor but when he does bad it's the OLine ?
Don't you guys get tired of the same dumb [BLEEP] argument????
This thread in two sentences.
(12-18-2023, 07:00 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Don't put words in my mouth dip [BLEEP].
I asked you a simple question.
I'm all over this board calling TL out when he makes mistakes and I also realize he's not a transcendent player that will consistently overcome bad OL play. There are very few of those QBs and he isn't one. No idea if he ever will be.
I think his future is bright regardless, but for what this staff is asking of him, and without a viable run game, he needs better protection.
And Luck is out of the league because of that [BLEEP] show OL you are propping up as probably the worst example on the planet. The reason I harp on this line is precisely to prevent that occurrence here.
Your posting in this forum will keep TL from getting injured? Ok… If only all the world’s problems were so easily solved with keyboards, pizza boxes and empty Coke cans.
LOL
Not my posting - but the constant suggestion of fixing the damn line have proven salient.
I don't drink soda
(12-18-2023, 09:31 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]This is a 3-14, maybe 4-13 win team without Trevor.
Exactly
(12-18-2023, 10:56 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I just don’t get the discourse here. It’s fair to criticize him and certain plays. We all do it.
But do we just dismiss the Bengals game? He was incredible.Then he plays the 2 best defenses in the league in back to back weeks. In one of those games he puts up 27 points only to see the defense lose the game and in the other, the team makes so many mental mistakes. All while having a bum ankle and knee.
I guess it comes with the position but to see so many people flip flop about him weekly is exhausting.
This is where I’m at.
Do people really want to return to the days of Garrard, Leftwich, Gabbert, Bortles, Kessler, etc?
Because odds are that’s what we will get if we cut loose with Trevor and try to draft again. This franchise has terrible luck and won’t get a Stroud.
Since we can't run the ball, the opposing defense can rush the passer, and the opposing DBs can cover tight because they know Trevor won't have time beyond his first read.
It's that simple.
(12-18-2023, 04:47 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]The craziest thing is we could have had Lamar Jackson. I remember being so annoyed when we passed on him.
We darft him, he blows an ACL in his third game and is never the same, it's how Duval rolls.
(12-18-2023, 06:52 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.
Our 8 wins are Trevor making the line look good.
I don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about good vs elite. Call him whatever the [BLEEP] you want.
I'll ask again:
Would you rank the Jags OL in the lowest 20% of the league in both run blocking and pass protection?
Feel free to answer the [BLEEP] question this time.
So when Trevor does good is only on Trevor but when he does bad it's the OLine ?
Don't you guys get tired of the same dumb [BLEEP] argument????
My rankings dont really matter. Wether I think this OLine is good or bad doesn't freaking matter. We are not LOSING games solely because of OLine play. Are Trevors mental errors on the field because of our oline???
I can name bunch of elite QBs that had horrible line throughout their careers....
Example: Andrew Luck put together 3 seasons of excellency behind Grigson's deathtrap.
Eli won a super bowl with the 28th ranked offensive line in 2011.
Ben Rothlisberger had made a career by scrambling around. He he won 2 rings by playing school yard ball...
Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Dan Marino and the list goes on
Give Trevor 7 seconds like Lamar had. You think he can find an open man and gun the ball right to him?
Give Trevor a line he can rely on keep pressure off for more than a second and a half, watch what happens. You've seen him drop some beautiful passes. You know he is capable of every dang throw. The problem is that he doesn't have time to run progressions to find the open guy, he's running for his life, or he's already hobbled due to past failure of the line. You're equating a symptom (Trevor's mistakes) with cause (historical ineptitude in front of him).
Ben was a statue. Eli won more because the Giants D put tawmy on his rear, something nobody else managed to do. Luck was broken and retired well before he should have been because they did nothing to keep him upright. Rivers never made it to the big dance. Marino only once. Romo shrank in big games, not even going to entertain him in the discussion of some of the league's best QBs, not to mention one of Dallas' strengths have been their OL, they put resources into the line and that was a strength.
Grape jerb, nice try.
(12-19-2023, 08:33 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]This is where I’m at.
Do people really want to return to the days of Garrard, Leftwich, Gabbert, Bortles, Kessler, etc?
Because odds are that’s what we will get if we cut loose with Trevor and try to draft again. This franchise has terrible luck and won’t get a Stroud.
You definitely don't want to dump him and you are right it's hard to draft one.
The issue is if he isn't good enough. If you keep him and he is just ok, the team has a ceiling that it can't overcome without everyone else, including coaching, being better than the other team.
If he isn't good enough, it's almost better to just cut it early and move on. Tank and start the rebuild so you have an early enough pick to find a QB.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
You people are bordering on insanity.
(12-18-2023, 09:31 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]This is a 3-14, maybe 4-13 win team without Trevor.
Pretty sure you need to add an alternative to make this point, unless you're going with CJ Beathard (in which case the GM should have been fired before the season.)
(12-19-2023, 03:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You people are bordering on insanity.
Yep. Getting real crazy isn't it. It's like they want Lawrence and the team to fail.
(12-19-2023, 01:23 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:52 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]So when Trevor does good is only on Trevor but when he does bad it's the OLine ?
Don't you guys get tired of the same dumb [BLEEP] argument????
My rankings dont really matter. Wether I think this OLine is good or bad doesn't freaking matter. We are not LOSING games solely because of OLine play. Are Trevors mental errors on the field because of our oline???
I can name bunch of elite QBs that had horrible line throughout their careers....
Example: Andrew Luck put together 3 seasons of excellency behind Grigson's deathtrap.
Eli won a super bowl with the 28th ranked offensive line in 2011.
Ben Rothlisberger had made a career by scrambling around. He he won 2 rings by playing school yard ball...
Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Dan Marino and the list goes on
Give Trevor 7 seconds like Lamar had. You think he can find an open man and gun the ball right to him?
Yes because Baltimore gave 7 seconds to Lamar it wasn't Lamar amazing awareness and capabilties that avoid and escape pressure
(12-19-2023, 01:23 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 06:52 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]So when Trevor does good is only on Trevor but when he does bad it's the OLine ?
Don't you guys get tired of the same dumb [BLEEP] argument????
My rankings dont really matter. Wether I think this OLine is good or bad doesn't freaking matter. We are not LOSING games solely because of OLine play. Are Trevors mental errors on the field because of our oline???
I can name bunch of elite QBs that had horrible line throughout their careers....
Example: Andrew Luck put together 3 seasons of excellency behind Grigson's deathtrap.
Eli won a super bowl with the 28th ranked offensive line in 2011.
Ben Rothlisberger had made a career by scrambling around. He he won 2 rings by playing school yard ball...
Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Dan Marino and the list goes on
Give Trevor 7 seconds like Lamar had. You think he can find an open man and gun the ball right to him?
Give Trevor a line he can rely on keep pressure off for more than a second and a half, watch what happens. You've seen him drop some beautiful passes. You know he is capable of every dang throw. The problem is that he doesn't have time to run progressions to find the open guy, he's running for his life, or he's already hobbled due to past failure of the line. You're equating a symptom (Trevor's mistakes) with cause (historical ineptitude in front of him).
Ben was a statue. Eli won more because the Giants D put tawmy on his rear, something nobody else managed to do. Luck was broken and retired well before he should have been because they did nothing to keep him upright. Rivers never made it to the big dance. Marino only once. Romo shrank in big games, not even going to entertain him in the discussion of some of the league's best QBs, not to mention one of Dallas' strengths have been their OL, they put resources into the line and that was a strength.
Grape jerb, nice try.
1.
Go look at his two SB runs and tell me how his oline was and how many times he was running for his life.
Ben was a "statue" is a lazy argument because he was a natural thrower of the football - but Ben was one of the best at avoiding sacks.
2.
Again, look at Elis oline in the SB runs. Get back at me.
(12-19-2023, 07:37 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2023, 01:23 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Give Trevor 7 seconds like Lamar had. You think he can find an open man and gun the ball right to him?
Give Trevor a line he can rely on keep pressure off for more than a second and a half, watch what happens. You've seen him drop some beautiful passes. You know he is capable of every dang throw. The problem is that he doesn't have time to run progressions to find the open guy, he's running for his life, or he's already hobbled due to past failure of the line. You're equating a symptom (Trevor's mistakes) with cause (historical ineptitude in front of him).
Ben was a statue. Eli won more because the Giants D put tawmy on his rear, something nobody else managed to do. Luck was broken and retired well before he should have been because they did nothing to keep him upright. Rivers never made it to the big dance. Marino only once. Romo shrank in big games, not even going to entertain him in the discussion of some of the league's best QBs, not to mention one of Dallas' strengths have been their OL, they put resources into the line and that was a strength.
Grape jerb, nice try.
1.
Go look at his two SB runs and tell me how his oline was and how many times he was running for his life.
Ben was a "statue" is a lazy argument because he was a natural thrower of the football - but Ben was one of the best at avoiding sacks.
2.
Again, look at Elis oline in the SB runs. Get back at me.
youre talking about specific outcomes that have occurred over the span of careers and comparing to 3 years.
Its interesting you mention Eli, Trevor is playing very similar, the stats and the 8-6 record are very Eli.
Yet who had the better defense
How does Coughlin's influence factor into those Super Bowl runs
Just a reminder, one playoff birth and on the way to another in the first 3 years
(12-19-2023, 08:13 PM)jagshype Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2023, 07:37 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]1.
Go look at his two SB runs and tell me how his oline was and how many times he was running for his life.
Ben was a "statue" is a lazy argument because he was a natural thrower of the football - but Ben was one of the best at avoiding sacks.
2.
Again, look at Elis oline in the SB runs. Get back at me.
youre talking about specific outcomes that have occurred over the span of careers and comparing to 3 years.
Its interesting you mention Eli, Trevor is playing very similar, the stats and the 8-6 record are very Eli.
Yet who had the better defense
How does Coughlin's influence factor into those Super Bowl runs
Just a reminder, one playoff birth and on the way to another in the first 3 years
I'm talking about their respectable olines.