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Well he needs to be protected and have some depth over in an OL and OT!!

Pay him whatever he wants... This Franchise is absolutely done if Trevor leaves.

(04-20-2024, 01:27 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Pay him whatever he wants... This Franchise is absolutely done if Trevor leaves.

My take on TL is yes he wants good pay, but he wants to win just as much.  He won in college and High school and now he wants to do that in the Pro's.  I suspect more than a few of his "mistakes" last year was out of frustration. Trying to make something happen when everything broke down, receivers were not where they were suppose to be etc.  I also do not believe he will even sign here if we do not field an o-line that is at least average.  So we can go draft CB's and WR's and edge players all we want and hope TL will make time somehow because he can at times. Then just wave goodbye as he moves on to a team that will protect him.

(04-20-2024, 10:07 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-20-2024, 01:27 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Pay him whatever he wants... This Franchise is absolutely done if Trevor leaves.

My take on TL is yes he wants good pay, but he wants to win just as much.  He won in college and High school and now he wants to do that in the Pro's.  I suspect more than a few of his "mistakes" last year was out of frustration. Trying to make something happen when everything broke down, receivers were not where they were suppose to be etc.  I also do not believe he will even sign here if we do not field an o-line that is at least average.  So we can go draft CB's and WR's and edge players all we want and hope TL will make time somehow because he can at times. Then just wave goodbye as he moves on to a team that will protect him.

I find it strange that there was WR communication/route-running seemed broken at times throughout the year.  Being able to get on the same page, particularly during hot routes, is key to overcoming pressure and blitzes.  At the end of the day that responsibility has to fall down to the offensive coaching staff.  Seeing Lawrence and Ridley squawking/talking to each after an incomplete pass late into the season after having a full year to get that down is disappointing.

I do think that if Trevor takes a team friendly deal with stipulations to get him protection, etc., then we will be in a very powerful position for years to come.

(04-20-2024, 11:19 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that if Trevor takes a team friendly deal with stipulations to get him protection, etc., then we will be in a very powerful position for years to come.

Everyone who wants Trevor to take a 'team friendly deal,' forgets that players are represented by agents; agents that get paid more based on how big the deal is.  There is also what I would call "a competition" amongst players in terms of "how good they are" based on their contract size.

As a Texans fan I watched when Andre Johnson took an extremely team-friendly contract by having his uncle act as his agent.  After a short time, and talking to other players around the league about how underpaid he was, he ended up holding out of TC camp before the team renegotiated his deal.  Andre admitted that he wasn't happy not being there for his team team, that's the type of guy he was, and he came back quickly...but him returning was immediately follow by a new contract. As NYC4jags pointed out, under-paying a top performer can affect the culture of the team.

(04-20-2024, 11:19 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that if Trevor takes a team friendly deal with stipulations to get him protection, etc., then we will be in a very powerful position for years to come.

Why do people think that pretty much anyone would do this?  Every time anybody is up for a contract I see it.

(04-20-2024, 11:44 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-20-2024, 11:19 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that if Trevor takes a team friendly deal with stipulations to get him protection, etc., then we will be in a very powerful position for years to come.

Why do people think that pretty much anyone would do this?  Every time anybody is up for a contract I see it.

Yep. The only friendly deal Trevor, or any sports player, wants is the one which is the friendliest to his bank account. It's a young man's game. Get it while you can.

(04-20-2024, 11:17 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-20-2024, 10:07 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]My take on TL is yes he wants good pay, but he wants to win just as much.  He won in college and High school and now he wants to do that in the Pro's.  I suspect more than a few of his "mistakes" last year was out of frustration. Trying to make something happen when everything broke down, receivers were not where they were suppose to be etc.  I also do not believe he will even sign here if we do not field an o-line that is at least average.  So we can go draft CB's and WR's and edge players all we want and hope TL will make time somehow because he can at times. Then just wave goodbye as he moves on to a team that will protect him.

I find it strange that there was WR communication/route-running seemed broken at times throughout the year.  Being able to get on the same page, particularly during hot routes, is key to overcoming pressure and blitzes.  At the end of the day that responsibility has to fall down to the offensive coaching staff.  Seeing Lawrence and Ridley squawking/talking to each after an incomplete pass late into the season after having a full year to get that down is disappointing.

While normally I would agree, too many times I would see Ridley actually run into coverage for some odd reason. Other times he would just miss or ignore the blitz was on from his side. Once down near the goal line he "dead legged" like he was going to hook into an open space in front of the safety and vacated by the LB who was blitzing. Instead he then cut out into the CB who was playing outside leverage. TL threw the ball just as he cut, for the hook.  The safety stepped up and intercepted the ball. There are a lot more, like running a 9 route when the CB blitzes. I am guessing it was the rust of not playing? A QB, in order to be effective, needs to have the confidence receivers are going to be where they are suppose to be initially.

(04-20-2024, 11:44 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-20-2024, 11:19 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that if Trevor takes a team friendly deal with stipulations to get him protection, etc., then we will be in a very powerful position for years to come.

Why do people think that pretty much anyone would do this?  Every time anybody is up for a contract I see it.

It is typically a pipe dream to imagine any player would negotiate this way, but Trevor verbalized a willingness to structure his deal in such a way that it would not prevent the team from keeping the roster fortified elsewhere during his tenure. 

This was during a presser after the 2022 season IIRC. 

Grain of salt and all that - but he did make it clear that he didn't want any prospective second contract of his to limit the roster elsewhere. 

Regarding the "stipulations" bit from the post you quoted - ownership/FO/HC already had a sit down with him to hash out what he felt he needed to happen this offseason to elevate his play and the offense as a whole, so, it seems some semblance of that notion is already taking place.

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(04-20-2024, 11:56 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-20-2024, 11:17 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]I find it strange that there was WR communication/route-running seemed broken at times throughout the year.  Being able to get on the same page, particularly during hot routes, is key to overcoming pressure and blitzes.  At the end of the day that responsibility has to fall down to the offensive coaching staff.  Seeing Lawrence and Ridley squawking/talking to each after an incomplete pass late into the season after having a full year to get that down is disappointing.

While normally I would agree, too many times I would see Ridley actually run into coverage for some odd reason. Other times he would just miss or ignore the blitz was on from his side. Once down near the goal line he "dead legged" like he was going to hook into an open space in front of the safety and vacated by the LB who was blitzing. Instead he then cut out into the CB who was playing outside leverage. TL threw the ball just as he cut, for the hook.  The safety stepped up and intercepted the ball. There are a lot more, like running a 9 route when the CB blitzes. I am guessing it was the rust of not playing? A QB, in order to be effective, needs to have the confidence receivers are going to be where they are suppose to be initially.

Seemed like much of the missed stuff between Ridley and Trevor that I reviewed post game ended up being the result of a hurried throw. 

Ridley never seemed to get the knack for looking for the ball early in his route even though he had to know TL was getting pressured consistently early. 

As I've said 8 million times, if they can fix at the damn OL, most of our 2023 offensive issues go away.

(04-20-2024, 12:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

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(04-20-2024, 11:56 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]While normally I would agree, too many times I would see Ridley actually run into coverage for some odd reason. Other times he would just miss or ignore the blitz was on from his side. Once down near the goal line he "dead legged" like he was going to hook into an open space in front of the safety and vacated by the LB who was blitzing. Instead he then cut out into the CB who was playing outside leverage. TL threw the ball just as he cut, for the hook.  The safety stepped up and intercepted the ball. There are a lot more, like running a 9 route when the CB blitzes. I am guessing it was the rust of not playing? A QB, in order to be effective, needs to have the confidence receivers are going to be where they are suppose to be initially.

Seemed like much of the missed stuff between Ridley and Trevor that I reviewed post game ended up being the result of a hurried throw. 

Ridley never seemed to get the knack for looking for the ball early in his route even though he had to know TL was getting pressured consistently early. 

As I've said 8 million times, if they can fix at the damn OL, most of our 2023 offensive issues go away.

I agree, but beyond the OL improvement, the offense has to make defenses pay when blitzing.  I posted a long time ago, that hitting hot routes in the face of the blitz is a sure fire way to get the QB more time in future downs, just like running effectively against a pin-their-ears-back front 4 is a good way to make the D stay home for a beat.

(04-20-2024, 01:33 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-20-2024, 12:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

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Seemed like much of the missed stuff between Ridley and Trevor that I reviewed post game ended up being the result of a hurried throw. 

Ridley never seemed to get the knack for looking for the ball early in his route even though he had to know TL was getting pressured consistently early. 

As I've said 8 million times, if they can fix at the damn OL, most of our 2023 offensive issues go away.

I agree, but beyond the OL improvement, the offense has to make defenses pay when blitzing.  I posted a long time ago, that hitting hot routes in the face of the blitz is a sure fire way to get the QB more time in future downs, just like running effectively against a pin-their-ears-back front 4 is a good way to make the D stay home for a beat.

It is definitely something the Jags play callers and QB need to be better at. 100%

(04-20-2024, 12:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-20-2024, 11:44 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]Why do people think that pretty much anyone would do this?  Every time anybody is up for a contract I see it.

It is typically a pipe dream to imagine any player would negotiate this way, but Trevor verbalized a willingness to structure his deal in such a way that it would not prevent the team from keeping the roster fortified elsewhere during his tenure. 

This was during a presser after the 2022 season IIRC. 

Grain of salt and all that - but he did make it clear that he didn't want any prospective second contract of his to limit the roster elsewhere. 

Regarding the "stipulations" bit from the post you quoted - ownership/FO/HC already had a sit down with him to hash out what he felt he needed to happen this offseason to elevate his play and the offense as a whole, so, it seems some semblance of that notion is already taking place.

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(04-20-2024, 11:56 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]While normally I would agree, too many times I would see Ridley actually run into coverage for some odd reason. Other times he would just miss or ignore the blitz was on from his side. Once down near the goal line he "dead legged" like he was going to hook into an open space in front of the safety and vacated by the LB who was blitzing. Instead he then cut out into the CB who was playing outside leverage. TL threw the ball just as he cut, for the hook.  The safety stepped up and intercepted the ball. There are a lot more, like running a 9 route when the CB blitzes. I am guessing it was the rust of not playing? A QB, in order to be effective, needs to have the confidence receivers are going to be where they are suppose to be initially.

Seemed like much of the missed stuff between Ridley and Trevor that I reviewed post game ended up being the result of a hurried throw. 

Ridley never seemed to get the knack for looking for the ball early in his route even though he had to know TL was getting pressured consistently early. 

As I've said 8 million times, if they can fix at the damn OL, most of our 2023 offensive issues go away.

My biggest fear is they get cute and not address it in the first 2 rounds. Then, between second round #48  and our 3rd rounder #96 a run on o-linemen occur. That's a round and a half!

(04-20-2024, 11:31 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-20-2024, 11:19 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that if Trevor takes a team friendly deal with stipulations to get him protection, etc., then we will be in a very powerful position for years to come.

Everyone who wants Trevor to take a 'team friendly deal,' forgets that players are represented by agents; agents that get paid more based on how big the deal is.  There is also what I would call "a competition" amongst players in terms of "how good they are" based on their contract size.

As a Texans fan I watched when Andre Johnson took an extremely team-friendly contract by having his uncle act as his agent.  After a short time, and talking to other players around the league about how underpaid he was, he ended up holding out of TC camp before the team renegotiated his deal.  Andre admitted that he wasn't happy not being there for his team team, that's the type of guy he was, and he came back quickly...but him returning was immediately follow by a new contract.  As NYC4jags pointed out, under-paying a top performer can affect the culture of the team.

Well, it worked out okay for Tom Brady. Would I expect Trevor to take a deal like that? No I would not, but even a reasonable deal may create some more cap room for an additional star. This is all based on several news reports. Don’t forget, endorsements from winning/fame can offset some salary. The only reason this is being brought up is based on some news reports. How reliable they are is hard to say.

I don't see how both sides could be close to a contract. Trevor hasn't earned a big deal so it would be foolish for the Jags to make him one of the highest paid QBs.

And if the Jags aren't going to make him one of the highest paid QBs, it would be foolish of Trevor to sign a deal when he has a realistic chance to outperform his sub par year last year and command a big contract.

I think we are just hearing talk based on media questions and not based on the reality of a deal.

(04-21-2024, 01:53 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see how both sides could be close to a contract. Trevor hasn't earned a big deal so it would be foolish for the Jags to make him one of the highest paid QBs.

And if the Jags aren't going to make him one of the highest paid QBs, it would be foolish of Trevor to sign a deal when he has a realistic chance to outperform his sub par year last year and command a big contract.

I think we are just hearing talk based on media questions and not based on the reality of a deal.

It's the same as the Josh Allen deal.  Josh Allen wasn't going to sign a contract coming off a 7-sack season.

(04-21-2024, 01:53 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see how both sides could be close to a contract. Trevor hasn't earned a big deal so it would be foolish for the Jags to make him one of the highest paid QBs.

And if the Jags aren't going to make him one of the highest paid QBs, it would be foolish of Trevor to sign a deal when he has a realistic chance to outperform his sub par year last year and command a big contract.

I think we are just hearing talk based on media questions and not based on the reality of a deal.

You’re hearing it from Baalke and Trevor’s mouths lol

(04-21-2024, 01:53 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see how both sides could be close to a contract. Trevor hasn't earned a big deal so it would be foolish for the Jags to make him one of the highest paid QBs.

And if the Jags aren't going to make him one of the highest paid QBs, it would be foolish of Trevor to sign a deal when he has a realistic chance to outperform his sub par year last year and command a big contract.

I think we are just hearing talk based on media questions and not based on the reality of a deal.

 So I guess Matthew Stafford did not deserve not only one but 2 market setting contracts with the Detroit Lions when he had only 3 winning seasons out of 11 as their quarterback.  Trevor has 2 winning season out of 3 years. I hate to break it to you but quarterbacks just don't get paid off of production but the value he brings to a team.  Sometimes, Fans like you can be so delusional when you try to determine what somebody's worth to a another person's franchise.

I think the front office is tied to Trevor. No way they survive if he does not succeed. This can lead to offering more than someone is worth on current stats for the stability it gives the franchise.

(04-19-2024, 04:57 PM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]I’ll drop an unpopular take here, more akin to the forbidden fruit. I think Baalke is the guy and I love what he’s done. His biggest detractor are his second to fourth round picks, but that book isn’t written yet. He’s the best GM we’ve had since Coughlin but it appears there are a significant amount of snot nosed millennials putting on their clown faces. That meant something different in my time…

Write it down, save it for flaming away later, but it will be a waste of time. He’s our guy and we are lucky to have him.

I think "best GM since Coughlin" is the heat in this taek.

Or, you don't hold Baalke or Shack in any bit of regard.

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(04-19-2024, 04:59 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-19-2024, 04:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Why wait to be upset later when you can be upset now over the potential of having something to be upset about.

Because it gives us a reason to drink.

I'm Irish, if a day ends in "y", that's reason enough for me!

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(04-19-2024, 08:38 PM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-19-2024, 08:07 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I like the boldness of this take, and I sure hope you are right. That said, 9-8 in two back to back seasons is a heck of lot better than the average of the past two decades.

Was that Trevor or was it Baalke?

Yes.