(12-13-2022, 09:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 06:43 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Here's an interesting article by PFF.
The Trevor Lawrence breakout is upon us, and it's here to stay
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-trevor-lawr...guars-2022
“He’s elevating the talent around him”
Boy if that’s not the most true statement about him. He’s making an average OLine look good. He’s taking average playmakers and making them look really good. That’s the true sign of an elite/franchise QB. Can you elevate the players around you to play better? And he certainly can.
(12-14-2022, 12:04 AM)icey14 Wrote: [ -> ]2016 bortles was alot of garbage time stats and TDS when we getting our [BLEEP] kicked.
2022 stats is Lawrence having us in every game but Detroit.
Bortles 2017 was good. We led league in offence drives that year and were really good in the red zone.
2015* Bortles you mean, he had 35 TDs. And I disagree with the garbage time narrative but, he was bailed out by Allen Robinson who was seemingly uncoverable that year hauling in 80 catches for 1400 yards and 14 TDs.
The Garbage time stats notion is pretty stupid, he had a 5 td game against the Titans which we lost by a score for example.
The big difference between Lawrence and Bortles is their talent level, I was highly against drafting Blake I really wanted Khalil Mack or Watkins that year. But I understood taking the chance on him because well, We had Blaine Garbage and Chad Henne.
I will say this about Blake tho, preseason in his rookie season he showed some flashes (obviously just pre season but you know) and it felt so good to see a QB who could actually throw the ball past 5 yards after Blaine.. but once the regular season came around it became pretty clear what he was.
(12-13-2022, 10:58 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Did we feel this way after 2016 with Bortles? I can't remember. Looking back at the stats, the guy was ballin'. 35 tuddies and 4400 yards is a pretty good sophomore year.
That was 2015. Also, Bortles had a 58% completion rate and led the league in interceptions that year.
(12-14-2022, 12:41 AM)JagsFanClubOfMD Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 10:58 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Did we feel this way after 2016 with Bortles? I can't remember. Looking back at the stats, the guy was ballin'. 35 tuddies and 4400 yards is a pretty good sophomore year.
That was 2015. Also, Bortles had a 58% completion rate and led the league in interceptions that year.
Do not let facts get in the way. Bortles threw a nice wobbly duck football as well. I use to hate that tard look he had with his tounge hanging out to boot.
(12-13-2022, 10:58 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Did we feel this way after 2016 with Bortles? I can't remember. Looking back at the stats, the guy was ballin'. 35 tuddies and 4400 yards is a pretty good sophomore year.
There was some of the same discussion at the time, tbh. The thing with Bortles is it was such a struggle for him to throw an accurate catchable pass consistently. He never could master that and so could never develop beyond a being a great athlete attempting to play QB. His stats in 2016 were something of a fluke.
I'm sure most of us we're sipping the kool-aid to an extent in 15 with the boat but I think we can all say that this is much much different.
(12-14-2022, 12:56 AM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2022, 12:41 AM)JagsFanClubOfMD Wrote: [ -> ]That was 2015. Also, Bortles had a 58% completion rate and led the league in interceptions that year.
Do not let facts get in the way. Bortles threw a nice wobbly duck football as well. I use to hate that tard look he had with his tounge hanging out to boot.
How dare you disrespect the Boat.
But for real I was hoping 2015's stats were not just because of garbage time, but deep down I knew they were.
2015 Blake was looking at numbers trying to trick the eye test showing you there was something off. 2022 Trevor is looking at numbers to prove the eye test is accurate. They are night and day different.
(12-14-2022, 08:09 AM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure most of us we're sipping the kool-aid to an extent in 15 with the boat but I think we can all say that this is much much different.
Bottles had a lot of good qualities you'd want in a QB, but in the end he was more like Garrard than Trevor.
I thought he could be good in 2015, but that was because I was attributing ability to him that was actually mostly from Hurns and Robinson, and placing a lot of blame for losing on coach sprinkles.
Looking back on it he was a likeable QB, and a fun guy to root for, but not an alpha QB. Trevor is an alpha, when the Jaguars are behind the other team is scared of what he's going to do. In the past when we were behind the team was scared of what our own quarterback was going to do.
(12-14-2022, 08:56 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2022, 08:09 AM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure most of us we're sipping the kool-aid to an extent in 15 with the boat but I think we can all say that this is much much different.
Bottles had a lot of good qualities you'd want in a QB, but in the end he was more like Garrard than Trevor.
I thought he could be good in 2015, but that was because I was attributing ability to him that was actually mostly from Hurns and Robinson, and placing a lot of blame for losing on coach sprinkles.
Looking back on it he was a likeable QB, and a fun guy to root for, but not an alpha QB. Trevor is an alpha, when the Jaguars are behind the other team is scared of what he's going to do. In the past when we were behind the team was scared of what our own quarterback was going to do.
Lawrence is light years better than Blake, but Blake wasn't put into an RPO heavy offense that would've maximized his athletic skills either. If the Boat was playing in Tennessee instead of Tammyhill that team would've been really good for a long time.
(12-14-2022, 09:02 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2022, 08:56 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Bottles had a lot of good qualities you'd want in a QB, but in the end he was more like Garrard than Trevor.
I thought he could be good in 2015, but that was because I was attributing ability to him that was actually mostly from Hurns and Robinson, and placing a lot of blame for losing on coach sprinkles.
Looking back on it he was a likeable QB, and a fun guy to root for, but not an alpha QB. Trevor is an alpha, when the Jaguars are behind the other team is scared of what he's going to do. In the past when we were behind the team was scared of what our own quarterback was going to do.
Lawrence is light years better than Blake, but Blake wasn't put into an RPO heavy offense that would've maximized his athletic skills either. If the Boat was playing in Tennessee instead of Tammyhill that team would've been really good for a long time.
I agree, they tried to force Blake into a pocket passer that he just wasn't. He was always better on the move. Hell he threw a tighter spiral while rolling out than he ever did with a clean pocket lol I think he would have done well with an OC/HC who was a creative offensive type. Pederson would have maximized him. Reid, McVay, Shanahan, McDaniel all would have had him performing better than he did here.
They played a sound bite from an interview with Coach Pederson this morning on 1010XL and he talked about how Trevor’s review of game film is growing and improving his game. Surprisingly, he said it was Beathard who instilled the importance of reviewing the film and how to utilize it.
(12-13-2022, 11:07 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 11:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If you couldn't understand that Bortles and Lawrence aren't from the same planet by week five of 2021 you need to rethink everything you think you know about NFL quarterback play.
Many young players flash.
But not all flashes are created equal.
I bet I can go back and search 2016 posts where you think Bortles was hot [BLEEP] 
this sounds like time well spent.
(12-13-2022, 10:58 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Did we feel this way after 2016 with Bortles? I can't remember. Looking back at the stats, the guy was ballin'. 35 tuddies and 4400 yards is a pretty good sophomore year.
I seem to recall the predominant argument was that all stats were garbage time stats, but I dunno if that was part of the 2015 season. Worth noting too that we had TJ Yeldon and shoelace as our backfield that year....woof
(12-14-2022, 12:04 AM)icey14 Wrote: [ -> ]2016 bortles was alot of garbage time stats and TDS when we getting our [BLEEP] kicked.
2022 stats is Lawrence having us in every game but Detroit.
Bortles 2017 was good. We led league in offence drives that year and were really good in the red zone.
...see?
(12-14-2022, 09:26 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]They played a sound bite from an interview with Coach Pederson this morning on 1010XL and he talked about how Trevor’s review of game film is growing and improving his game. Surprisingly, he said it was Beathard who instilled the importance of reviewing the film and how to utilize it.
Looks like Beathard has been a good signing then. Giving veteran advice to the younger colleague is exactly what I hoped he would bring to the table.
(12-14-2022, 08:09 AM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure most of us we're sipping the kool-aid to an extent in 15 with the boat but I think we can all say that this is much much different.
difference was a lot of that was hopeful optimism that the FO saw something we didn't, or that he'd eventually get coached out of a lot of those flaws. There was still plenty of doubt even after the 35 TD season. I don't think anyone was ever asserting that Bort made anyone on the team better. Even the players on the team eventually got to the point where they were just waiting to see how he'd manage to blow it this time.
Nowadays, it's justified confidence that we finally got it right and have a long term answer. You don't see any of the angst among the team, we see otherwise average guys excelling, and there would be very few around here that would make a stink when his contract extension is announced.
It's so refreshing.
(12-14-2022, 09:02 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2022, 08:56 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Bottles had a lot of good qualities you'd want in a QB, but in the end he was more like Garrard than Trevor.
I thought he could be good in 2015, but that was because I was attributing ability to him that was actually mostly from Hurns and Robinson, and placing a lot of blame for losing on coach sprinkles.
Looking back on it he was a likeable QB, and a fun guy to root for, but not an alpha QB. Trevor is an alpha, when the Jaguars are behind the other team is scared of what he's going to do. In the past when we were behind the team was scared of what our own quarterback was going to do.
Lawrence is light years better than Blake, but Blake wasn't put into an RPO heavy offense that would've maximized his athletic skills either. If the Boat was playing in Tennessee instead of Tammyhill that team would've been really good for a long time.
This is a really great observation. Bortles would have made a great RPO QB. I think he'd be more Hurts-like than Lamar Jackson. A big bodied dude with great straightline speed and tough as nails.
It's a shame, the RPO really was not en Vogue back when Bortles was our QB, so he was stuck trying to be a pocket passer with that god awful wind up he had. Of course, after the years of "I see dead people" Gabbert, Bortles was a revelation to a fanbase starving for decent QB play.
I think, as you pointed out to another Mod, many sang the praises of Bortles at the time. But I think it was mostly wishful praise. Almost as though, if we put enough positive energy in the the Football Universe, the Gods would smile upon him and us. But it was never to be. I can't say for certain what other posters thought or when they realized Bortles wasn't it...
All I can say is that I was screaming and yelling at anyone that would listen that resigning Bortles to a HUGE contract right after the 2017 season was a mistake. I'd just be having a drink in a bar and I'd turn to the guy next to me and tell them... "Remember Garrard???? Bortles is the exact same thing! We can't resign him to a big deal!" I'd wake up in the middle of the night, in a cold sweat, screaming out "Bortles!!! NO CONTRACT!!!" I had to seek professional help.
Conversely, since Lawrence has been our QB, I've found myself sleeping better at night.
(12-14-2022, 12:41 AM)JagsFanClubOfMD Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 10:58 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Did we feel this way after 2016 with Bortles? I can't remember. Looking back at the stats, the guy was ballin'. 35 tuddies and 4400 yards is a pretty good sophomore year.
That was 2015. Also, Bortles had a 58% completion rate and led the league in interceptions that year.
Yeah, I walked out of the stadium after the last game in 2015 and literally told my season ticket pals, "At least the offense will be fun to watch next year." Looking back, Bortles managed a fair amount of yards, but that 2016 offense was hideously dysfunctional, and Bortles looked like he couldn't hit water from a boat half the time.
He did some good things in 2017 of course, but I can't imagine anyone, anywhere thinking that it wouldn't be in the best interest of the team to make sure he could do it more than one year in a row. I felt it immediately then, and still feel this way - what a bunch of idiots for signing him long-term. Stupid stupid stupid. And the guys that had actually earned second contracts knew it too and developed crap attitudes for it.
(12-14-2022, 09:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/NFL/status/160301947...BDCCvj77wA\
AFC player of the week!
Yeah, good thing we dumped the reigning Walter Payton Man of the Year a while back too. Clearly he was over the hill and couldn't contribute anymore. I'm sure we got a great return on that 5th round pick.
Dude would be a lock for our Ring of Honor by now.
Oh well, if Caldwell and Coughlin weren't ridiculously horribad at their jobs, we probably don't get led to Lawrence.
(12-14-2022, 10:13 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2022, 09:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/NFL/status/160301947...BDCCvj77wA\
AFC player of the week!
Yeah, good thing we dumped the reigning Walter Payton Man of the Year a while back too. Clearly he was over the hill and couldn't contribute anymore. I'm sure we got a great return on that 5th round pick.
Dude would be a lock for our Ring of Honor by now.
Oh well, if Caldwell and Coughlin weren't ridiculously horribad at their jobs, we probably don't get led to Lawrence.
Everything led to Trevor and Pederson and that's ok!
We needed Minshew, Glennon and Lutton to suck so we got Lawrence. We needed Urban to be the worst HC in NFL history to get Pederson. Now? The AFC South looks to be the Jags for the taking for 10 years.
(12-14-2022, 10:07 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2022, 12:41 AM)JagsFanClubOfMD Wrote: [ -> ]That was 2015. Also, Bortles had a 58% completion rate and led the league in interceptions that year.
Yeah, I walked out of the stadium after the last game in 2015 and literally told my season ticket pals, "At least the offense will be fun to watch next year." Looking back, Bortles managed a fair amount of yards, but that 2016 offense was hideously dysfunctional, and Bortles looked like he couldn't hit water from a boat half the time.
He did some good things in 2017 of course, but I can't imagine anyone, anywhere thinking that it wouldn't be in the best interest of the team to make sure he could do it more than one year in a row. I felt it immediately then, and still feel this way - what a bunch of idiots for signing him long-term. Stupid stupid stupid. And the guys that had actually earned second contracts knew it too and developed crap attitudes for it.
The only disagreement here is that the BB5 contract wasn't long term at all. It was basically his 5th year option with a 6th year added, the last (7th) year was an easy out year with little dead money. That was Caldwell's standard contract strategy, but to me that was an admission that he wasn't the guy but they wanted to cover their bases coming out of a playoff run. I was fully expecting them to take a qb in the 2018 class and the travesty is that they didn't take Lamar Jackson instead of Tater Cakes Bryan; had they done that we probably excel in the next three years and become a playoff team. I happy where we are today, but it really didn't have to be this way with one or two easy decisions that they completely blew.
The Bortles signing after 2017 was absolutely an albatross that was tied around the neck of the franchise. We caused ourselves cap hell by giving Bortles the contract he got after that playoff run.
Anybody that knew anything realized that Bortles was Garrard. Einhorn was Finckle. And yet we all watched as we made the exact same mistake that we did 10 years earlier.
The Bortles extension was one of the biggest mistakes of this franchise. Any fan that had lived through the Garrard contract hell, could see the Bortles contract as the same thing. And yet... Coughlin, in all his "wisdom" decided to go for it.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-year-ago/
Tom [BLEEP] Coughlin. Worst Front Office dude ever. But, like I said. He destroyed the franchise and it resulted in Trevor Lawrence coming out from the ashes of that idiocy. Coughlin crapped all over us. And all that guano fertilized a tank job that finally bore fruit.