what are we even talking about in this thread anymore? I get actual work done for my job and come back to all this chaos.
On a brighter side, did you see our Power Rankings! On aggregate, we are at 11! ESPN even has us at 9!!!
Prettaaaay, Prettaaaay, Pretty Good!
(12-27-2022, 04:33 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 02:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/PFF/status/160748905...8cOOgKunJA
That's awesome. I really didn't think it would happen so fast but he's bordering elite level.
It all happened so suddenly, didn't it? Here we were in the middle of year 2, and it was either going to happen or it was not going to happen, and lo and behold, it happened. Just like that.
(12-27-2022, 04:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 04:33 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]That's awesome. I really didn't think it would happen so fast but he's bordering elite level.
It all happened so suddenly, didn't it? Here we were in the middle of year 2, and it was either going to happen or it was not going to happen, and lo and behold, it happened. Just like that.
Just like that. Right around the Robinson trade, the light comes on and Trevor starts going off. Just like that.
Whether it's the benefit of cutting malcontented dead weight, a stategy and scheme change due to different personnel, the personal maturing of a young man or everything stated I can't say, but I would call the trade a catalyst.
(12-27-2022, 05:03 PM)Thewitnessofsolinvictus Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 04:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It all happened so suddenly, didn't it? Here we were in the middle of year 2, and it was either going to happen or it was not going to happen, and lo and behold, it happened. Just like that.
Just like that. Right around the Robinson trade, the light comes on and Trevor starts going off. Just like that.
Whether it's the benefit of cutting malcontented dead weight, a stategy and scheme change due to different personnel, the personal maturing of a young man or everything stated I can't say, but I would call the trade a catalyst.
Malcontented?
The trade of a teammate is partially responsible for Trevor’s performance?
My goodness.
(12-27-2022, 05:03 PM)Thewitnessofsolinvictus Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 04:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It all happened so suddenly, didn't it? Here we were in the middle of year 2, and it was either going to happen or it was not going to happen, and lo and behold, it happened. Just like that.
Just like that. Right around the Robinson trade, the light comes on and Trevor starts going off. Just like that.
Whether it's the benefit of cutting malcontented dead weight, a stategy and scheme change due to different personnel, the personal maturing of a young man or everything stated I can't say, but I would call the trade a catalyst.
That is definitely a theory. Sounds bonkers to me, personally. But OK.
How about - just like 38 other first round quarterbacks in the Super Bowl era - the kid just needed time to acclimate to the league.
And unlike most of those others who struggled prior to acclimating (because this is the normal way it's done) - this kid had an unprecedented stumbling block thrown at him immediately with a woefully incompetent coach his rookie year.
You could see that he always had the tools. The only question was whether he could handle the pressure. It's one thing when you're the golden boy... it's another thing entirely when you're failing. This is where I think Doug has done a fantastic job. I truly believe Trevor was rattled coming into this season, and Doug has provided the system and support that has allowed Trevor to slowly become comfortable and start leaning back into his talent. That's my take, anyways.
(12-27-2022, 06:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 05:03 PM)Thewitnessofsolinvictus Wrote: [ -> ]Just like that. Right around the Robinson trade, the light comes on and Trevor starts going off. Just like that.
Whether it's the benefit of cutting malcontented dead weight, a stategy and scheme change due to different personnel, the personal maturing of a young man or everything stated I can't say, but I would call the trade a catalyst.
That is definitely a theory. Sounds bonkers to me, personally. But OK.
How about - just like 38 other first round quarterbacks in the Super Bowl era - the kid just needed time to acclimate to the league.
And unlike most of those others who struggled prior to acclimating (because this is the normal way it's done) - this kid had an unprecedented stumbling block thrown at him immediately with a woefully incompetent coach his rookie year.
Absolutely speculation on my part, and it's not the first time my thoughts have been called bonkers and it definitely won't be the last. Sometimes I try to connect dots where I probably shouldn't, smell smoke when there's not a fire, etc
I don't doubt any of the reasonable points you made, I noticed Lawrence's turn around in play seemed to started around the time of the trade and thought it interesting.
(12-27-2022, 06:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 05:03 PM)Thewitnessofsolinvictus Wrote: [ -> ]Just like that. Right around the Robinson trade, the light comes on and Trevor starts going off. Just like that.
Whether it's the benefit of cutting malcontented dead weight, a stategy and scheme change due to different personnel, the personal maturing of a young man or everything stated I can't say, but I would call the trade a catalyst.
That is definitely a theory. Sounds bonkers to me, personally. But OK.
How about - just like 38 other first round quarterbacks in the Super Bowl era - the kid just needed time to acclimate to the league.
And unlike most of those others who struggled prior to acclimating (because this is the normal way it's done) - this kid had an unprecedented stumbling block thrown at him immediately with a woefully incompetent coach his rookie year.
Well at least he didn't get Nathaniel Hackett, good lord dude took a guy who was elite almost every season and turned him into a backup caliber player.
(12-27-2022, 12:05 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2022, 11:52 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I think the idea of Meyer sounded cool, of course with Urban I didn't follow his career or anything I had only heard of how "good of a college coach" he was and rolled with it. With Lawrence, I've seen every play of his career from Clemson to Jax, it's a lot easier to point out flaws when you have actually paid attention to the player. I don't really know what your point with the above picture is, seems like something I said after a press conference or something.. don't know where I was "Blindly on board" with how he coaches.
I'm not trying to sit here and tell you that the coaching didn't hurt Trevor, or the WRs dropping passes didn't hurt him. But, there was more bad than good from him early on and i'm not talking about dropped passes or poor play design. I'm talking about over shooting wide open WRs, I'm talking about throwing an int to a linebacker with no wr/te in the area, i'm talking about throwing goal line ints on 1st down i'm talking about things that he alone is responsible for.
What you should be talking about is what an absolute moron you were for overreacting to every single mistake made by a rookie QB in a historically mismanaged situation.
But, instead, you just keep spewing a bunch of backpedaling horse [BLEEP].
Whatever.
Just stop. It's tiresome. You [BLEEP] up. Stop defending it.
#1 I wasn't overreacting simply because he made mistakes, but rather the pattern of the same mistakes being made again and again, that was also an issue before he was a Jaguar.
#2 Was he mismanaged the first half of this season? because he was still making those same mistakes.
#3 If you want this redundant argument to stop, quit trying to push a false narrative and quit replying to me everytime I post even when it has nothing to do with the topic I'm speaking on
(12-28-2022, 01:43 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 12:05 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]What you should be talking about is what an absolute moron you were for overreacting to every single mistake made by a rookie QB in a historically mismanaged situation.
But, instead, you just keep spewing a bunch of backpedaling horse [BLEEP].
Whatever.
Just stop. It's tiresome. You [BLEEP] up. Stop defending it.
#1 I wasn't overreacting simply because he made mistakes, but rather the pattern of the same mistakes being made again and again, that was also an issue before he was a Jaguar.
#2 Was he mismanaged the first half of this season? because he was still making those same mistakes.
#3 If you want this redundant argument to stop, quit trying to push a false narrative and quit replying to me everytime I post even when it has nothing to do with the topic I'm speaking on
1 - young players make mistakes - as has been pointed out to you a thousand times - great work ignoring that for 20 months tho
2 - also excellent work ignoring dozens and dozens of posts about a normal acclimation process
3 - it's not an argument - it's you unsuccessfully defending yourself because you relentlessly bashed a rookie QB
If you want a cookie for identifying his negative traits in college, claim one. Great work.
The problem is that millions of people saw that - but also identified his positive traits in college and had confidence they would translate to the league.
AND THEY WERE RIGHT.
Most of those people also didn't lose their [BLEEP] and vomit all over a message board bashing the kid every time he made a mistake.
I'm just going to agree to disagree from here moving forward.
Spin away.
Here's some good TL content:
https://twitter.com/BridgetCondon_/statu...hSEoIDKzSg
Here's a good one where a jets fan blames their punter for missing out on Trevor Lawrence
.gif "Laughing")
https://twitter.com/CaseyHalp/status/160...hSEoIDKzSg
(12-26-2022, 07:02 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2022, 06:17 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]CJB, for the love of all things holy, can you just admit you were wrong so we ALL can get past this? Although you may have gone past the point of no return, you’ll save more dignity and face admitting an error that attempting to argue your way out of it. You’re not a Harvard lawyer. We have elephants that never forget. I’m not taking sides, mainly because I have to hear both sides and I only read about 1/4 of your posts. I also understand emotions are high, especially the game threads. And any comments made during the UM experiment should be forgiven. This year is another story. I don’t care to look at time stamps and [BLEEP]. The sooner you own up, the sooner everyone gets off to [BLEEP]! Let’s please talk about how well TL is playing and the potential playoffs as opposed to bickering. The future in Jacksonville is bright. You’re either in or out. Let’s [BLEEP] GO!
I could have sworn I've seen him admit he was wrong.
There are just a few posters that are just unable to stop talking about him.
Can we just move on and stop this weird CJB obsession?
*with disclaimers
(12-26-2022, 09:29 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2022, 08:46 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]That's the hope. No team is loaded in every position on both sides of the ball so you either invest heavy in an elite D and have enough weapons on O (like the 49ers this year, oh and an O genius like Shanahan) or have an elite QB that can put a team on his back and win you games. We've got that elite QB now and you look around the league and see the teams, like the Jets, that could be really good but just don't have the QB.
Lawrence is our guy for the next 15 years and I don't see help coming for any AFC South team soon at QB. Its our division to take over and we have all the tools to make it our division.
The AFC playoffs could be insane for the next decade. So much talent as you list. But we are have a guy who can compete with any of those, just need to keep building the roster and ever improving it.
The future is bright and Lawrence is that star shining.
Houston will have the #1 pick. They've got a decent shot at hitting on their franchise guy.
...or darfting the next Zach Wilson
1. It can NOT be emphasized enough how badly Urban Meyer handled not just the Jaguars as a team, but specifically Trevor Lawrence in his rookie season. Starting in week 1, you could tell Meyer didn't give one [BLEEP] about developing Trevor. Trevor threw the ball over 50 times in the first game of his rookie season!!! All while we had a very competent running back that should have been taking the load off of the ROOKIE QB in the first game of his NFL career. And it just kept coming. 40 to 50 attempts per game all year.
And now that we've seen how a real NFL coach game plans, calls plays, and adjusts to his opponents every week. It's more than obvious that Urban was doing absolutely nothing to prepare or help train Lawrence in anything. Our Rookie QB was basically left out to dry for his entire Rookie season. The fact that Trevor Lawrence doesn't look like Zach Wilson is a miracle and credit to the mental toughness of this kid. Other talented QBs have whithered in situations far less toxic.
2. The way Trevor Lawrence congratulates Jenkins after his walk off Touchdown gives me goosebumbs. Most NFL teams are pretty segregated between Offense and Defense. They are all teammates, but usually the bond isn't as strong between the 2 squads... But, you can tell that these 2 guys genuinly like eachother. This team is so united right now. It's a think of freaking beauty.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1604589055139893250
(12-27-2022, 05:03 PM)Thewitnessofsolinvictus Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 04:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It all happened so suddenly, didn't it? Here we were in the middle of year 2, and it was either going to happen or it was not going to happen, and lo and behold, it happened. Just like that.
Just like that. Right around the Robinson trade, the light comes on and Trevor starts going off. Just like that.
Whether it's the benefit of cutting malcontented dead weight, a stategy and scheme change due to different personnel, the personal maturing of a young man or everything stated I can't say, but I would call the trade a catalyst.
Trevor has come out and said that London was the turning point, but good try to dump on JRob.
Malcontented dead weight? get outta here with that.
(12-28-2022, 01:38 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 06:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]That is definitely a theory. Sounds bonkers to me, personally. But OK.
How about - just like 38 other first round quarterbacks in the Super Bowl era - the kid just needed time to acclimate to the league.
And unlike most of those others who struggled prior to acclimating (because this is the normal way it's done) - this kid had an unprecedented stumbling block thrown at him immediately with a woefully incompetent coach his rookie year.
Well at least he didn't get Nathaniel Hackett, good lord dude took a guy who was elite almost every season and turned him into a backup caliber player.
....some of us predicted that he was done before the trade, I don't think that's on the coach. I'll grant that Hackett was in way over his head, but I think Russ is done. And I love that DEN threw the farm at him, one less we gotta compete with for at least another year or two.
(12-28-2022, 09:22 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-28-2022, 01:38 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Well at least he didn't get Nathaniel Hackett, good lord dude took a guy who was elite almost every season and turned him into a backup caliber player.
....some of us predicted that he was done before the trade, I don't think that's on the coach. I'll grant that Hackett was in way over his head, but I think Russ is done. And I love that DEN threw the farm at him, one less we gotta compete with for at least another year or two.
The Russell Wilson thing is perplexing.
There seem to be elements of time taking its toll on the player, and elements of "I just made 250 million and have 8 bathrooms in all three of my houses, this nobody coach can't tell me what to do"
I heard an analyst say that Wilson loves to improvise and leave the scripted play when the first read isn't there.
But that his best production came when OC Schottenheimer forced him to do that much less.
He doesn't have anyone forcing him to play within the play book and the play book was also suspect this year.
Now add in that he can't run around and improvise as well as he once did and you arrive at our current state.
Dude seems to be operating in his own little alternate reality.
Strange predicament for the broncos, and now their owner is saying the next HC will report directly to him, not the GM.
ooooff.
It has never felt so good to have landed a really good QB, a really good coach, and to have an owner who will spend to the cap to get it right.
Now we just have to manage the cap and TLs next deal.
World's better than a yet another rebuild.
(12-28-2022, 10:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2022, 09:22 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]
....some of us predicted that he was done before the trade, I don't think that's on the coach. I'll grant that Hackett was in way over his head, but I think Russ is done. And I love that DEN threw the farm at him, one less we gotta compete with for at least another year or two.
The Russell Wilson thing is perplexing.
There seem to be elements of time taking its toll on the player, and elements of "I just made 250 million and have 8 bathrooms in all three of my houses, this nobody coach can't tell me what to do"
I heard an analyst say that Wilson loves to improvise and leave the scripted play when the first read isn't there.
But that his best production came when OC Schottenheimer forced him to do that much less.
He doesn't have anyone forcing him to play within the play book and the play book was also suspect this year.
Now add in that he can't run around and improvise as well as he once did and you arrive at our current state.
Dude seems to be operating in his own little alternate reality.
Strange predicament for the broncos, and now their owner is saying the next HC will report directly to him, not the GM.
ooooff.
It has never felt so good to have landed a really good QB, a really good coach, and to have an owner who will spend to the cap to get it right.
Now we just have to manage the cap and TLs next deal.
World's better than a yet another rebuild.
Our coach reports directly to the owner too... oooofff?
Maybe Khan went from one of the worst decision makers in ownership to the model for franchises overnight too? lol
(12-28-2022, 10:27 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2022, 10:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The Russell Wilson thing is perplexing.
There seem to be elements of time taking its toll on the player, and elements of "I just made 250 million and have 8 bathrooms in all three of my houses, this nobody coach can't tell me what to do"
I heard an analyst say that Wilson loves to improvise and leave the scripted play when the first read isn't there.
But that his best production came when OC Schottenheimer forced him to do that much less.
He doesn't have anyone forcing him to play within the play book and the play book was also suspect this year.
Now add in that he can't run around and improvise as well as he once did and you arrive at our current state.
Dude seems to be operating in his own little alternate reality.
Strange predicament for the broncos, and now their owner is saying the next HC will report directly to him, not the GM.
ooooff.
It has never felt so good to have landed a really good QB, a really good coach, and to have an owner who will spend to the cap to get it right.
Now we just have to manage the cap and TLs next deal.
World's better than a yet another rebuild.
Our coach reports directly to the owner too... oooofff?
Maybe Khan went from one of the worst decision makers in ownership to the model for franchises overnight too? lol
I don't think Pederson reports directly to Khan.
This is how I remember it, but if you've got some links to reports that say otherwise, please help me out.
They have a traditionally hierarchy - Khan simply insisted on being in the loop on personnel decisions after the Coughlin failure and then reiterated that after Meyer's failure.
Prior to the 2021 season Khan said that Meyer and Baalke would collaborate and that Meyer would ultimately be trusted to have the final word. (but we know that Meyer was in over his head and leaned on Baalke and the scouting dept to some degree in that draft)
Prior to the 2022 season Khan said that Baalke and Pederson would collaborate but that Khan would "have a voice" in the room.
I didn't get any implication that Baalke was neutered in any way, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Baalke's post draft comments about setting up a board with scouts and then gathering info from Pederson and other coaches on their preferences seemed to confirm this to me.
Again - I may have missed or forgotten something about their alignment - so maybe you or someone else can find a link.
Regarding Khan's decisions - he has made bad hire after bad hire after bad hire.
Now he finally got one right. I'm hopeful this is finally the beginning of what he has tried and failed to make happen so many times.
Edit: Found this clip that suggests that Doug and Trent are expected to collaborate but that Doug has more of the final say than Trent in ultimate personnel decisions. What's missing there is the "Doug reports directly to me" part.
Looking into the broncos owner's comments - it seems he intended to mean something along the same lines.
In other words - GM/coach collaboration with owner oversight. However he throws in the "he reports directly to me" part - and that seems like a different dynamic than what the Jags are doing.
Maybe it's the same and I'm nitpicking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1EAoy7Goho
(12-28-2022, 01:38 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2022, 06:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]That is definitely a theory. Sounds bonkers to me, personally. But OK.
How about - just like 38 other first round quarterbacks in the Super Bowl era - the kid just needed time to acclimate to the league.
And unlike most of those others who struggled prior to acclimating (because this is the normal way it's done) - this kid had an unprecedented stumbling block thrown at him immediately with a woefully incompetent coach his rookie year.
Well at least he didn't get Nathaniel Hackett, good lord dude took a guy who was elite almost every season and turned him into a backup caliber player.
I got news for ya bud, that ain't on Hack.
Russ, and I was a big DangeRuss guy, fell off a cliff. He's supposedly a bad team mate and with team 3 around awfully hard to work with... this was going on in Seattle which is why they moved on and are a better team minus an elite QB. Weird