Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Trevor is making too many mistakes.

Take away those mistakes and we are probably still 0-3 or 1-2 at best.
The other mistakes being made out there, and it is a LONG list, have been more egregious - larger in both number and severity.

Still, it's year 4 for the kid, and year 3 in this system. He shouldn't be making some of the errors he's made and he should be more consistent by now.
He's 24 and his streaks of good play have been way too good to write off, so best we can hope for is to see him in a better system next year.
Maybe we get a staff in here that can capitalize on his strengths and develop his weaknesses into something better.

Even if this staff somehow gets this team on track this year, there needs to be accountability for coming out of the gate so horribly unprepared.

(09-24-2024, 06:08 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2024, 05:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Our starting offensive tackles are respectively 3rd and  14th WORST among, not just tackles, but ALL olinemen in the ENTIRE NFL. But hey, Trev gotta play better.

^This is %100 pure deflection.  You can't watch Trevor sit back in the pocket with all the time he needs, sail a pass over the head of a wide-open receiver, right into the hands of a defensive player and blame the offensive tackles.  Not admitting the Trevor is PART of the problem is nonsense.

It is a problem but the source is he’s shellshocked. We’ve seen him bounce back before from it, but do you trust this system to help him stop seeing ghosts right now? I certainly don’t

(09-24-2024, 06:08 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2024, 05:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Our starting offensive tackles are respectively 3rd and  14th WORST among, not just tackles, but ALL olinemen in the ENTIRE NFL. But hey, Trev gotta play better.

^This is %100 pure deflection.  You can't watch Trevor sit back in the pocket with all the time he needs, sail a pass over the head of a wide-open receiver, right into the hands of a defensive player and blame the offensive tackles.  Not admitting the Trevor is PART of the problem is nonsense.

LOL

Our overpaid starting LT gave up EIGHT pressures on his own last night. 

It isn't deflection - it is the much greater issue between the two you are comparing. 

But hell yes, the kid has to be better.

(09-24-2024, 06:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2024, 06:08 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]^This is %100 pure deflection.  You can't watch Trevor sit back in the pocket with all the time he needs, sail a pass over the head of a wide-open receiver, right into the hands of a defensive player and blame the offensive tackles.  Not admitting the Trevor is PART of the problem is nonsense.

LOL

Our overpaid starting LT gave up EIGHT pressures on his own last night. 

It isn't deflection - it is the much greater issue between the two you are comparing. 

But hell yes, the kid has to be better.

My faith is waning. I think he’ll get better, but it won’t be with this team.

(09-24-2024, 06:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor is making too many mistakes.

Take away those mistakes and we are probably still 0-3 or 1-2 at best.
The other mistakes being made out there, and it is a LONG list, have been more egregious - larger in both number and severity.

Still, it's year 4 for the kid, and year 3 in this system. He shouldn't be making some of the errors he's made and he should be more consistent by now.
He's 24 and his streaks of good play have been way too good to write off, so best we can hope for is to see him in a better system next year.
Maybe we get a staff in here that can capitalize on his strengths and develop his weaknesses into something better.

Even if this staff somehow gets this team on track this year, there needs to be accountability for coming out of the gate so horribly unprepared.

Trevor's sin has been being unable to make up for the massive problems around him.

He's on pace for six ints on the season and the team hasn't been close in a game outside of the first quarter the last two weeks.

I've been saying for years that keeping Baalke around would lead us to where we currently are, and it turns out I was right.

Khan should hire me to be the VP of football operations for the team.

(09-24-2024, 10:40 AM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-23-2024, 11:40 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]I love how this time-to-throw gets tossed around like it's the coup de grace argument.  He's got the least time to throw because defences don't respect him.  If they over commit on pressure, they will not get burned.  He won't hit the quick slant that forces an LB to stay in the hole.  He won't dump it to a back on a makeshift screen.  He won't take off on a run that forces the DL to rush a little slower so they can react.

TL has the least time because he's the least respected.

It seems the TL-swifties are all content to believe he's a complete victim of circumstance with no responsibility, as the highest paid player on the squad by a WIIIIIIIIIIIDE margin, to be the best player on the squad by an equally WIIIIIIIIIIIDE margin.  That's a good gig.  Give me $55M a year and I can stink it up like an outhouse as well.  Hell, I'll be unreliable at half that price.

Interesting perspective given statistically he's one of the best deep ball throwers in the NFL and statistically one of the best at getting the ball out fast. He's got the least amount of time to throw because the OL is not good. It's not the only factor but it's obviously the biggest and all objective data leads to that. I can't imagine being a football fan and not being able to easily conclude that this OL is trash and the biggest deficiency on offense. Football has and always will start with blocking.

As I said he's played horrible and he's not the generational QB people thought he would be (including me), but yet he is still the best thing about this football team has going forward which is wild given how he has played this season.

Trevor doesn't have the least amount of time to throw. He is actually tied for 8th for the highest average time between snap and throwing ball or receiving pressure.  He is ranked 23rd in the highest number of hurries with 5. He is tied for 4th in the number of poor passes with 20. He is tied for 4th with Stafford for the number of dropped passes at 6 which is less than Aaron Rogers and more than half that of Deshaun Watson. He is also tied for 14th for the most blitzed QB having faced 27. He is ranked 26th in QBR when you only count players who have played all 3 games. He is ranked 29th in completion percentage compared to all the other QB's who have played all 3 games so far and 25th in total passing yards.

We can try to point the blame everywhere else, but there really aren't any excuses. Trevor has just been playing like a bottom tier QB so far this season. I hope he gets back on top of his game.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

It wouldn't surprise me if the Jags ended up trading Trevor Lawrence that this becomes a redux of the Tampa Bay trading Steve Young because they felt he was bust instead of just realizing they were just horrible at running their franchise.

(09-24-2024, 06:08 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2024, 05:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Our starting offensive tackles are respectively 3rd and  14th WORST among, not just tackles, but ALL olinemen in the ENTIRE NFL. But hey, Trev gotta play better.

^This is %100 pure deflection.  You can't watch Trevor sit back in the pocket with all the time he needs, sail a pass over the head of a wide-open receiver, right into the hands of a defensive player and blame the offensive tackles.  Not admitting that Trevor is PART of the problem is nonsense.

Far be it from me to defend a Mod.  But to ignore the fact that the O-Line is something Trevor Lawrence has absolutely no confidence in, is just not a good take.

To me, it's up to the coaching staff to figure out how best to get throws out quickly.  Trevor did that in 2022.  He was one of the quickest QBs to get the ball out in 2022.  The reason being the O-Line was suspect.  But in 2022, the game plan, the offensive schemes/routes, along with the play calling masked the O-Line.  

Where I find things got sideways was when Doug stopped being involved in the offense.  According to Mia, and other Jacksonville reporters, Doug gave those responsibilies to Press.  That's not me saying it.  That's Mia and the other reporters here in Jacksonville.  And then, to start this season, Doug decided to be coy with the offense.  As though he was beyond reproach.  His hubris is his downfall.

The O-Line is not good.  It just isn't.  And Lawrence has lost all confidence in the O-Line.  But...  With that said, Lawrence has also lost all confidence in the game plan and the calls he's being forced to run.

It's both, guys.  But in my opinion, we were able to overcome the O-Line in 2022 and the first 11 games of 2023.  But it's also the coaching that has just decided to mail it in after the 2022 season and let Press run the show.  When you look at how certain QBs are having resurgent years, it seems that if you get the proper Offensive coaching, things can be flipped quickly.

(09-24-2024, 06:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor is making too many mistakes.

Take away those mistakes and we are probably still 0-3 or 1-2 at best.
The other mistakes being made out there, and it is a LONG list, have been more egregious - larger in both number and severity.

Still, it's year 4 for the kid, and year 3 in this system. He shouldn't be making some of the errors he's made and he should be more consistent by now.
He's 24 and his streaks of good play have been way too good to write off, so best we can hope for is to see him in a better system next year.
Maybe we get a staff in here that can capitalize on his strengths and develop his weaknesses into something better.

Even if this staff somehow gets this team on track this year, there needs to be accountability for coming out of the gate so horribly unprepared.

Honestly, I think the "system" has changed every year under Pederson.  

2022 was Pederson's system.  2023 was Press.  And now 2024, they both are trying to work on it together.  

Each year, the offense looks different, at least that's how it looks when I watch on Sundays. This coaching staff, in my opinion, just keeps throwing spaghetti against the wall wondering which noodle is the correct one without actually taking the pasta out of the pot.  There's no real vision of what this offense is.  And there hasn't been a real vision for the entire tenure of Doug.  It's hard for a QB to be successful when every year they keep changing the schemes, game plan, and identity of the offense.  We've been schizophrenic for 3 years now.  It's just not going to work.

Again I point out that in any business, corp, organization or team. If most every worker is making mistakes, not communication, looking unprepared, etc. Then the issue is with management.

The same with sports teams. Every player on this team would be on other NFL teams if not the Jaguars. Even players the Jags have cut and this board proclaimed as busts are still around the league. If every player is continually busting, then the issue is with the coaching/FO.

Every one keeps wanted to throw all the blame on Trevor because he cannot save this team. He was never considered a finished product coming out of Clemson. And even in Clemson he was never the type of guy who consistently created stuff out of broken plays. Even QB's who do that regularly like Mahomes and Allen cannot do that consistently enough to win. That is why those franchises, built up their offense lines, developed running games, have schemes to create some easy throws, and have defenses that can get TO and off field. Because they know even the best QB's cannot do that.

And no one here honestly expects Trevor to be that quality player anymore.

But to say that he is a complete bust or biggest issue right now or because he cannot save the team, is missing the forest fire for the single tree that is burning.

(09-24-2024, 06:48 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2024, 06:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor is making too many mistakes.

Take away those mistakes and we are probably still 0-3 or 1-2 at best.
The other mistakes being made out there, and it is a LONG list, have been more egregious - larger in both number and severity.

Still, it's year 4 for the kid, and year 3 in this system. He shouldn't be making some of the errors he's made and he should be more consistent by now.
He's 24 and his streaks of good play have been way too good to write off, so best we can hope for is to see him in a better system next year.
Maybe we get a staff in here that can capitalize on his strengths and develop his weaknesses into something better.

Even if this staff somehow gets this team on track this year, there needs to be accountability for coming out of the gate so horribly unprepared.

Honestly, I think the "system" has changed every year under Pederson.  

2022 was Pederson's system.  2023 was Press.  And now 2024, they both are trying to work on it together.  

Each year, the offense looks different, at least that's how it looks when I watch on Sundays. This coaching staff, in my opinion, just keeps throwing spaghetti against the wall wondering which noodle is the correct one without actually taking the pasta out of the pot.  There's no real vision of what this offense is.  And there hasn't been a real vision for the entire tenure of Doug.  It's hard for a QB to be successful when every year they keep changing the schemes, game plan, and identity of the offense.  We've been schizophrenic for 3 years now.  It's just not going to work.

If I've learned anything from your inane ranting about this offense, it's that you wouldn't know the difference between a screen pass and a swing pass if Mike Martz and Dan Coryell came to your house and gave you two weeks worth of personal tutoring. 

Now, has it been schizophrenic as Pederson and company try to figure out what their different rosters can do well each year? Yes. They've gone through tweaks and testing phases, but the core of it has been the same until they started this year by more than doubling the amount of under center snaps and play action attempts hoping the line could adapt and reap the reward of big chunk pass plays more often. 

It was a great idea on paper. 
Unfortunately, the results have been a [BLEEP] show of horrible protection and clown-show-like sloppy execution.

(09-24-2024, 06:57 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]But to say that he is a complete bust or biggest issue right now or because he cannot save the team, is missing the forest fire for the single tree that is burning.

Totally agree.  Trevor is not playing well.  But this is far and away a Front Office and Coaching Staff issue.

I'm totally fine with keeping Lawrence for another 5 years here.  But you need to get a real HC that has the passion to be great and comes from a coaching tree that has experienced greatness.

Mularkey was a washed retread, and Shad fired him quickly.

Gus Bradley was a hopeful hire.  It was a time when getting an up and coming Coordinator was beginning to be popular.  But it was clear he was out of his element and also a Defensive minded HC.  He was given too long a leash, but I get it.  It was Khan's first hire.  

Then, after trying for a young minded HC, Shad and Caldwell went back to the retread Model.  Marrone was OK.  But he wasn't ever really inspiring.  He got us to the AFC Championship, but at the end of the day, the team never lived up to their potential.

Then we fired Calwell, hired Baalke and then got the "savior" HC in Urban Myer.  That was a disaster.  But it was another attempt at trying to get an accomplished college HC to maybe turn things around.

And here we are with a SB winning retread.  Which looked promising, but clearly Doug isn't passionate enough to really run the offense like he was expected to do.  

All this to say, I think Khan has been doing all he can possible do to find the right HC and right GM.  I think Khan sees that it's time to really clean house in the Front Office and Coaching staff.  If he can actually get a true NFL professional to find a GM that is competent that can then go out and get a good young, offensive minded HC, I don't think we have to do an entire rebuild.

We don't have to get rid of all our talent.  We just have to get rid of our GM and HC.  There's plenty here to be competitive.  But we need NFL pros that have experience, but are young enough that they are hungry to grow Jacksonville instead of come here to collect thier final paycheck.

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(09-24-2024, 07:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2024, 06:48 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I think the "system" has changed every year under Pederson.  

2022 was Pederson's system.  2023 was Press.  And now 2024, they both are trying to work on it together.  

Each year, the offense looks different, at least that's how it looks when I watch on Sundays. This coaching staff, in my opinion, just keeps throwing spaghetti against the wall wondering which noodle is the correct one without actually taking the pasta out of the pot.  There's no real vision of what this offense is.  And there hasn't been a real vision for the entire tenure of Doug.  It's hard for a QB to be successful when every year they keep changing the schemes, game plan, and identity of the offense.  We've been schizophrenic for 3 years now.  It's just not going to work.

If I've learned anything from your inane ranting 

Thanks for insulting me so soon.  It allowed me to not waste my time reading the rest of your hatred.

This is where I am starting to disagree with others with the idea that "sure Trevor is a problem, but its not an issue"...

No no, he IS absolutely part of this problem - amongst every other problem present in this organization. Our mishaps and miscues are now magnified even further because our starting, franchise QB is also complicit in this putrid product. And it's only going to get magnified even worse if the problem persists, because the QB handles the ball on EVERY play on offense.

He's been given a long enough leash, but I think its time we stop coddling the grown man as if he has a fragile ego - because if he actually does, then he never possessed the innate qualities to success in the pressure-filled position of QB in the NFL. He got his pay day and its been time for him to step his dang game up too. We can't have our main guy struggle the way he is and say that it isn't an issue. 62 turnovers since 2021 is not a fluke, despite how much I wished it was in the past few seasons when I defended him.

Statements like Josh Allen (Bills) in the first half of last nights game alone exceeding Trevor's COMBINED performances the past 3 games is disturbing, even if it is somewhat "meaningless". I used to brush these sort things off for Trevor the last 3 years, but how many times will we have to undergo the same exact scenario and pretend like it's not happening or TLaw isn't part of the issue?

I'm just tired of defending mediocrity, regardless of who it is at this point.

(09-24-2024, 06:57 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Again I point out that in any business, corp, organization or team. If most every worker is making mistakes, not communication, looking unprepared, etc. Then the issue is with management.

The same with sports teams. Every player on this team would be on other NFL teams if not the Jaguars. Even players the Jags have cut and this board proclaimed as busts are still around the league. If every player is continually busting, then the issue is with the coaching/FO.

Every one keeps wanted to throw all the blame on Trevor because he cannot save this team. He was never considered a finished product coming out of Clemson. And even in Clemson he was never the type of guy who consistently created stuff out of broken plays. Even QB's who do that regularly like Mahomes and Allen cannot do that consistently enough to win. That is why those franchises, built up their offense lines, developed running games, have schemes to create some easy throws, and have defenses that can get TO and off field. Because they know even the best QB's cannot do that.

And no one here honestly expects Trevor to be that quality player anymore.

But to say that he is a complete bust or biggest issue right now or because he cannot save the team, is missing the forest fire for the single tree that is burning.

Then on top of that, the Urban year. 

Again, it was even expressed by another NFL exec that it screwed Trevor over. And those “career vs Daniel Jones” or “Gardner minshew” don’t ever clarify that for context. 

It seems we are taking one step forward, three steps back with this kid. And no doubt he has his things he needs to improve but my point is and will be that barring drastic upheaval, that improvement will most likely NOT happen here

(09-24-2024, 06:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor is making too many mistakes.

Take away those mistakes and we are probably still 0-3 or 1-2 at best.
The other mistakes being made out there, and it is a LONG list, have been more egregious - larger in both number and severity.

Still, it's year 4 for the kid, and year 3 in this system. He shouldn't be making some of the errors he's made and he should be more consistent by now.
He's 24 and his streaks of good play have been way too good to write off, so best we can hope for is to see him in a better system next year.
Maybe we get a staff in here that can capitalize on his strengths and develop his weaknesses into something better.

Even if this staff somehow gets this team on track this year, there needs to be accountability for coming out of the gate so horribly unprepared.

This is where I stand. He's still young. He's not washed yet. A good coach can fix this in 2025 and beyond. I just don't see it with Baalke and Pederson anymore.

Would like to see somebody younger, a little bit more innovative and joined at the hip with Trevor as the head coach and play caller.

Would be fine with Ben Johnson coming down from Detroit along with Ray Agnew as the General Manager or John Dorsey.

Would be equally fine with Bobby Slowik coming over from Houston with James Liipfert as the General Manager.

At any rate. We need a fresh start again. We have time with Lawrence still. I still think a guy like Thomas Dimitroff or Rick Spielman would be worth a look as VP's for the team to handle what Khan cannot football wise.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

(09-24-2024, 02:14 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2024, 01:12 PM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ][quote pid="1644856" dateline="1727195987"]

And Goff then regressed and McVay took stafford on and forged the offense to him. Campbell is now taking Goff back to form . Shanahan has literally made every QB he’s touched look better. A right coach will be able to make Trevor realize his full potential (and before anyone plays gotcha, I’ve stated a million times Trevor isn’t elite and I don’t think he will be. I think he can be in the top half of this league with some borderline elite years with the right support around him. Aka basically what every team has to unless you have Kermit at QB)

That's hilarious. The wizard "QB whisperer" Shanahan moved up on a draft board and selected a bust of a QB.

But yes everything he touches turns into magic.

You conveniently ignore the fact that almost every year Shanahan has had there, his offense has clicked regardless of who is in at QB. It also helps that they focus on the trenches…

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(09-24-2024, 02:05 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]I mean that's the whole point. He's making $12M/year MORE than Josh Allen whose deal expires in 2029, you can crunch the numbers as you will, but no matter how you do it Trevor Lawrence is getting overpaid based on his performance to date and he is locked in for the next several years.  If I'm a head coach candidate looking for my first shot (knowing that if I fail, it will likely be my last) I'm taking that fact into account.  I'm not saying that it's impossible to turn Trevor around, just that in comparison to other potential landing spots that it's a big risk.

I understand that but that’s the NfL now. Every QB who gets a new deal is gonna get overpaid. Cleveland and Watson (screw them) reset the market for better or for worse. And already, Trevor’s deal fell down the ladder with Tua and Prescott resetting again…and soon Allen will get a reworked deal I’m sure. Then the next QB….then the next.

If the jags hadn’t extended him, let him walk, and he lit it up elsewhere? You think this forum is toxic now? lol at that scenario.

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(09-24-2024, 01:01 PM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ]You brought McVay as a stepping stone and you said he had success with Goff. 

His QB in the SB had the following stats:


0 TDs, 1 INT, 59% passer rating. 

Missed a wide open guy in the EZ which couldve been a factor beating NE that SB year run. 

Under Stafford:

89% passer rating. 3 TDs 2 INT and a total of 283 passing yards.

This shows that you need a talented QB to be successful regardless of who the HC is.

You can only mask their weaknesses for so long.

Dude winning records and a SB berth is success, you are literally moving the goal posts every time you spurt words out. Just come out and say that unless they win the Super Bowl, it’s “failure”. By that definition, every QB and Coach in this league not named mahomes these past two seasons were not successful.

And using your own “stellar” criteria, Stafford was not a successful QB in Detroit given he only obtained a few winning years and wild card berth(s). Then McVay turned him into a success.
[/quote]








"Winning records" is jack-[BLEEP] if you can't win the big game. Ask any player or any HC/GM/owner in the league. Goal post isn't moved your just the one that has "success" backwards. The ultimate goal is to win superbowls. The ultimate goal is not winning division games or conference games, or making it to the big stage just to flop. 

Lawrence isn't going to win us any superbowls regardless what coaches we bring in Jacksonville. Can he have better "success" in terms of individual success? Sure, but he's circumstances vary in terms of overall talent he has around him. We hired a SB coach that was suppose to be a genius on O and a "QB whisperer" and he has flopped badly in terms of even making Lawrence an average QB. Was Doug just that bad or is it a mixture of both bad HC and QB? I'm leaning on both. 

As far as Mathew Stafford goes -- he was drafted to one of the worst franchises in the league (you could also make the same argument about Lawrence) but ATLEAST with Stafford he was producing at a high level staticially in Detriot therefore he wasn't close to the problem in Detriot. Detriot hired/drafted poorly throughout his tenture there and he was still able to put up massive numbers there. Can you say that about Lawrence? 

Stafford third year was BY far one of the most impressive years of any QB in the league, now ask yourself this question, was Stafford the sole reason why Detriot sucked? Dude has 6 years span of throwing for bunch of yards and TDs.  Lawrence damn near has almost more TOs than TDs thrown.

(09-24-2024, 06:14 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2024, 06:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL

Our overpaid starting LT gave up EIGHT pressures on his own last night. 

It isn't deflection - it is the much greater issue between the two you are comparing. 

But hell yes, the kid has to be better.

My faith is waning. I think he’ll get better, but it won’t be with this team.

That's going to be hard for him to do elsewhere.  His dead cap makes him untradeable for at least the next couple of years.  He isn't going anywhere.

If Houston could dump Brock Osweiler, Watson etc... we could get out of Trevor's deal.

The best way I can put it. Everything our offense (and Trevor) does is difficult. We RARELY score an easy touchdown. Everything is hard.

I think Trevor needs to have some designed scrambles. He needs to be picking up 2-3 first downs with his legs every game.
He doesn’t have the pocket presence or the accuracy to be a pure pocket passer.

People always deflect Lawrence issues. Yes the team is bad around him. Let's focus on Lawrence

*Misses far too many easy throws
*misses too many receivers wide open to throw into tight coverage
*turnover prone (leads the NFL since he was drafted)
*has almost 0 touch on the ball
*takes sacks in the worst situations (got to see the blitz coming especially when the line is suspect)
*does not elevate others

I get hopeful wishing but right now I don't see it. Maybe a couple years on the bench he could become a stable player. I will gladly eat these words in the case of being wrong. I see one of if not the worst starting QB in the league currently. Talent only takes one so far.