Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(09-25-2024, 07:24 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2024, 06:43 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]I mean I could be completely misunderstanding it. I clicked the scissors symbol to the left, and it had this pop up:

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This was the columns from overthecap.com:

Interesting.  The notes below the contract on Spotrac explain that the options are fully guaranteed thru 2026 and mostly guaranteed in 2027.  When you add them all up with the signing bonus you get the dead cap figure.  I understand the pre and post cut/trade of pushing some of the dead cap into the following year, but those numbers you linked don't make sense given the options aren't really options if they are already guaranteed as it states.  It's only counting the signing bonus on the trade calculation.  Maybe the fact they are "options" means the dead cap for them trades with the player?  Or perhaps the dead cap for it doesn't get accelerated into the current year but remains in the option year?  Or perhaps they are treating them as non-guaranteed options and are not properly accounting the full ramifications?  I don't think I've looked at a contract that's set up this way before with so much mostly guaranteed option money.  Either way, if the team that drafted and extended a guy is suddenly looking to and willing to ship him off, that should be a red flag to any other GM and they're not going to be doing us any cap favors in the process as someone is on the hook for those guarantees. They have to be paid and they have to be accounted for against someone's cap (probably ours).  If the receiving team is on the hook, I'd bet they'd be negotiating for us to pay for and eat a lot of that option cap hit to get rid of our "problem".  It's just not happening.  You don't sign a guy to that deal and then 3 games in say "you know what?  Nah."

^This.

(09-25-2024, 07:55 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2024, 04:59 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]I mean they had Urban Meyer in charge. I'm sure Baalke has some blood on his hands for all that fiasco, but most of that blame goes to Mr. lap dance.

On a more serious note, I agree that rushing Lawrence out there and trading Minshew was short sighted and probably influenced by all the media hype of "generational prospect."

It was a massive mistake. There was no reason to jump the gun and throw him out there. I can't recall all of the coaching candidates the team looked at in 2021, but, the Lions ended up hiring Dan Campbell. The Eagles ended up replacing Doug Pederson that same year with Nick Sirianni. 

There was a 72 hour difference between Pederson being fired by Philadelphia on January 11th and then our announcement of hiring Urban Meyer on the 14th. It's a shame we didn't pause for just a split second longer there as an organization. 

I think today's team would be drastically different had Doug been able to maybe immediately jump from Philadelphia and into this situation with Jacksonville from the very beginning with Minshew and Lawrence. 

I don't know. We'll see what the future holds with fourteen more games to go, but, if Khan goes in a different direction. I just hope like hell he gets rid of everybody, hires a team of experts and lets them decide what's best for his future and this franchise. 

It's bittersweet seeing how fast Washington seems to be on track already and Jayden Daniels ABSOLUTELY looked the part in his Monday Night Football debut. Just looking at their overall staff, they have a great mix of veterans along with guys that recently played the game and are very good at what they do. Look at some of these names on this staff.

HC- Dan Quinn - Former SB caliber HC in ATL
OC- Kliff Kingsbury - Former HC in ARZ
DC- Joe Whitt Jr - Came over from DAL with Quinn, was apart of making Diggs and a few other guys household names in DAL's secondary the last two years
ST- Larry Izzo - Longtime NFL great Special Team's player with MIA and NE
RB/Run Game- Anthony Lynn - Former HC in SD/LAC
LB/Pass Rush- Ryan Kerrigan - Washington Great OLB
DB's- William Gay, good role player with the Steelers
DL- Shariff Floyd and Daryl Tapp

That's a solid little coaching staff that they put together with a lot of recent head coaching experience which helps create accountability on a very manageable level. Some guys are just better specialists or coordinators than they are at trying to tackle the whole damn operation as the head coach.

This makes me so sad.  But yeah, there were so many different ways to go.  And we went the dumbest way.  There's nothing more to say about it.

I guess we just have to look forward and see what happens.  It would have been nice if even in the worst case, we hired Byron as the HC and let him get rid of Baalke...  But this is just lamenting on past failure.  

I just hope Shad recognizes that he needs to look forward and stop look at the past.

In re: to Jayden Daniels.

How many rookies looked great their first game / games then came down back to earth. Why anoint him already as the savior for the commanders?

(09-25-2024, 08:40 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]In re: to Jayden Daniels.

How many rookies looked great their first game / games then came down back to earth. Why anoint him already as the savior for the commanders?

Just as a Devil's Advocate based on this thread...

Trevor never looked like Jayden Daniels his rookie year.  Trevor never looked like CJ Stroud did in his rookie season...

All this to say, I think coaching matters.  Trevor has been completely ruined by the coaching he's gotten since he entered the league.  

Jayden Daniels and CJ Stroud were better coached in 1 year than Trevor has in his 3 years here, besides 2022.

https://youtu.be/RTGGYCQkoXI?si=XCJVYn5fn2MxrKKm

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Winning cures everything.

Let's just pump the breaks a bit guys.

In 3 weeks we've gone from we've got our QB for the next decade to how bads the cap hit if we cut or trade him.

I get people are angry and frustrated with the team but it's Week 3.

(09-25-2024, 07:55 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2024, 04:59 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]I mean they had Urban Meyer in charge. I'm sure Baalke has some blood on his hands for all that fiasco, but most of that blame goes to Mr. lap dance.

On a more serious note, I agree that rushing Lawrence out there and trading Minshew was short sighted and probably influenced by all the media hype of "generational prospect."

It was a massive mistake. There was no reason to jump the gun and throw him out there. I can't recall all of the coaching candidates the team looked at in 2021, but, the Lions ended up hiring Dan Campbell. The Eagles ended up replacing Doug Pederson that same year with Nick Sirianni. 

There was a 72 hour difference between Pederson being fired by Philadelphia on January 11th and then our announcement of hiring Urban Meyer on the 14th. It's a shame we didn't pause for just a split second longer there as an organization. 

I think today's team would be drastically different had Doug been able to maybe immediately jump from Philadelphia and into this situation with Jacksonville from the very beginning with Minshew and Lawrence. 

I don't know. We'll see what the future holds with fourteen more games to go, but, if Khan goes in a different direction. I just hope like hell he gets rid of everybody, hires a team of experts and lets them decide what's best for his future and this franchise. 

It's bittersweet seeing how fast Washington seems to be on track already and Jayden Daniels ABSOLUTELY looked the part in his Monday Night Football debut. Just looking at their overall staff, they have a great mix of veterans along with guys that recently played the game and are very good at what they do. Look at some of these names on this staff.

HC- Dan Quinn - Former SB caliber HC in ATL
OC- Kliff Kingsbury - Former HC in ARZ
DC- Joe Whitt Jr - Came over from DAL with Quinn, was apart of making Diggs and a few other guys household names in DAL's secondary the last two years
ST- Larry Izzo - Longtime NFL great Special Team's player with MIA and NE
RB/Run Game- Anthony Lynn - Former HC in SD/LAC
LB/Pass Rush- Ryan Kerrigan - Washington Great OLB
DB's- William Gay, good role player with the Steelers
DL- Shariff Floyd and Daryl Tapp

That's a solid little coaching staff that they put together with a lot of recent head coaching experience which helps create accountability on a very manageable level. Some guys are just better specialists or coordinators than they are at trying to tackle the whole damn operation as the head coach.

Those hires dont really move. It's a mixture of players making it work.

Quinn was a failure in Atlanta and Kingsbury was a failure of an HC in Arizona.

(09-25-2024, 10:10 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Let's just pump the breaks a bit guys.

In 3 weeks we've gone from we've got our QB for the next decade to how bads the cap hit if we cut or trade him.

I get people are angry and frustrated with the team but it's Week 3.

What really happened is that Trevor and the team were on national TV and now the echo chamber is being bombarded by outsiders' takes on the situation.

Just stop hitting guys in the facemask Trevor...
https://twitter.com/Christo_MoNa/status/...9571800177

R yall about to start tanking for bloody arch manning lol

There's no way he's coming even if we drafted him.

(09-26-2024, 03:01 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just stop hitting guys in the facemask Trevor...
https://twitter.com/Christo_MoNa/status/...9571800177

Trevor is at the point where if he goes thru the season with Doug and Press in charge, he might be broken. Loads of talent, but totally pummeled behind an incompetent OLine and coaching staff.


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Hate Sherman. Hate him more when he's right.

https://youtu.be/vIxqtzA71gk?si=BRCvGhrHyPChb24O

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(09-26-2024, 03:01 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just stop hitting guys in the facemask Trevor...
https://twitter.com/Christo_MoNa/status/...9571800177

You're one of the biggest TL stan there is I've noticed.

You're dying on that hill too - which I appreciate, BUT.... how come you never bring the plays where he flat out misses guys wide open?

(09-26-2024, 09:08 AM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 03:01 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just stop hitting guys in the facemask Trevor...
https://twitter.com/Christo_MoNa/status/...9571800177

You're one of the biggest TL stan there is I've noticed.

You're dying on that hill too - which I appreciate, BUT.... how come you never bring the plays where he flat out misses guys wide open?

He does. He's one of the first one's up in arms actually during the gameday threads. There's a lot of fair and balanced posters on here. It may not seem like that, but, they do exist here. He was pissed off about that pass Lawrence sailed to Hamlin just like the rest of us.

I honestly do not see anymore Lawrence purists on here like I did a few years ago back in 2021, 2022. There's not very many people claiming Lawrence can do no wrong, and that, he's without any fault.

A lot of us are coming to the sobering reality, that, he may very well be fundamentally broken at this point, and a lot of that goes back to the offensive line failing him and getting him potentially shell shocked from the beatings he took and injuries he sustained last year.

His pocket awareness has noticeably been off this year already and I think the staff is partly to blame. They're asking him to do more things from under center, something he rarely ever did during his first three years here, and hardly ever did at Clemson, if at all.

They have really dialed back or scaled back a lot of the designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and RPO's from what we saw in 2022 when they got hot. They have a lot to fix and address collectively. Falls on the staff and Lawrence's shoulders. For sure.

(09-26-2024, 09:08 AM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 03:01 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just stop hitting guys in the facemask Trevor...
https://twitter.com/Christo_MoNa/status/...9571800177

You're one of the biggest TL stan there is I've noticed.

You're dying on that hill too - which I appreciate, BUT.... how come you never bring the plays where he flat out misses guys wide open?

We criticize Lawrence a fair amount but are also able to see the circumstances around him failing him.

He has missed some reads, sailed passes and has left clean pockets (mainly because there almost never is one).

He also has receivers that drop the most passes, an OL that allows the most pressure, a non existent running game, a horrendous scheme and a situation where his playcaller changes from half to half. He has also managed to cut down his turnovers (incoming 3 turnover game now) which is something people have been asking for.

(09-26-2024, 09:10 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 09:08 AM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ]You're one of the biggest TL stan there is I've noticed.

You're dying on that hill too - which I appreciate, BUT.... how come you never bring the plays where he flat out misses guys wide open?

He does. He's one of the first one's up in arms actually during the gameday threads. There's a lot of fair and balanced posters on here. It may not seem like that, but, they do exist here. He was pissed off about that pass Lawrence sailed to Hamlin just like the rest of us.

I honestly do not see anymore Lawrence purists on here like I did a few years ago back in 2021, 2022. There's not very many people claiming Lawrence can do no wrong, and that, he's without any fault.

A lot of us are coming to the sobering reality, that, he may very well be fundamentally broken at this point, and a lot of that goes back to the offensive line failing him and getting him potentially shell shocked from the beatings he took and injuries he sustained last year.

His pocket awareness has noticeably been off this year already and I think the staff is partly to blame. They're asking him to do more things from under center, something he rarely ever did during his first three years here, and hardly ever did at Clemson, if at all.

They have really dialed back or scaled back a lot of the designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and RPO's from what we saw in 2022 when they got hot. They have a lot to fix and address collectively. Falls on the staff and Lawrence's shoulders. For sure.

His pocket awareness has been terrible this year compared to the first three.  But it doesn't seem to be related to being under center.  He's lost track of time in both formations equally.
It's him looking for big plays while also trying to avoid interceptions.

(09-26-2024, 10:03 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 09:10 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]He does. He's one of the first one's up in arms actually during the gameday threads. There's a lot of fair and balanced posters on here. It may not seem like that, but, they do exist here. He was pissed off about that pass Lawrence sailed to Hamlin just like the rest of us.

I honestly do not see anymore Lawrence purists on here like I did a few years ago back in 2021, 2022. There's not very many people claiming Lawrence can do no wrong, and that, he's without any fault.

A lot of us are coming to the sobering reality, that, he may very well be fundamentally broken at this point, and a lot of that goes back to the offensive line failing him and getting him potentially shell shocked from the beatings he took and injuries he sustained last year.

His pocket awareness has noticeably been off this year already and I think the staff is partly to blame. They're asking him to do more things from under center, something he rarely ever did during his first three years here, and hardly ever did at Clemson, if at all.

They have really dialed back or scaled back a lot of the designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and RPO's from what we saw in 2022 when they got hot. They have a lot to fix and address collectively. Falls on the staff and Lawrence's shoulders. For sure.

His pocket awareness has been terrible this year compared to the first three.  But it doesn't seem to be related to being under center.  He's lost track of time in both formations equally.
It's him looking for big plays while also trying to avoid interceptions.

He's pressing because he's got to play hero ball, it just slows everything down

(09-26-2024, 10:03 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 09:10 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]He does. He's one of the first one's up in arms actually during the gameday threads. There's a lot of fair and balanced posters on here. It may not seem like that, but, they do exist here. He was pissed off about that pass Lawrence sailed to Hamlin just like the rest of us.

I honestly do not see anymore Lawrence purists on here like I did a few years ago back in 2021, 2022. There's not very many people claiming Lawrence can do no wrong, and that, he's without any fault.

A lot of us are coming to the sobering reality, that, he may very well be fundamentally broken at this point, and a lot of that goes back to the offensive line failing him and getting him potentially shell shocked from the beatings he took and injuries he sustained last year.

His pocket awareness has noticeably been off this year already and I think the staff is partly to blame. They're asking him to do more things from under center, something he rarely ever did during his first three years here, and hardly ever did at Clemson, if at all.

They have really dialed back or scaled back a lot of the designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and RPO's from what we saw in 2022 when they got hot. They have a lot to fix and address collectively. Falls on the staff and Lawrence's shoulders. For sure.

His pocket awareness has been terrible this year compared to the first three.  But it doesn't seem to be related to being under center.  He's lost track of time in both formations equally.
It's him looking for big plays while also trying to avoid interceptions.

Yeah. I have to agree with this. A lot of people are calling this out now with a lot more football experience and knowledge than we have. Locally and nationally. He's not taking what's there when it's underneath, or, at times, the play calling doesn't seem to have a safety valve or two to make a "profit" for him that coach Campo would say. 

It's really both for me. I think Lawrence needs to be better. I think the coaching needs to be better. The execution has to be better. We simply cannot afford any miscues or dropped opportunities right now. We're not a good enough team to overcome any slight hint of imperfection or discomfort.

This team doesn't have that gene in their DNA anymore like they did back in 2022. It's really odd, that, they went from being able to put themselves into a hole and digging their way out of it and then some, to, just being flat out dead as an offense. Not doing anything at all. 

That's a mental issue. The players and coaches need to have an intervention amongst themselves and move forward. It was a little odd and telling that Doug's response on Tuesday to the media was something along the lines of "Speeches are not needed, it's football, players play, coaches coach". 

I am not convinced by that statement at all. Doesn't sound like the Doug they onboarded in 2022. Because in 2022 it was all about being team centric, believing in ourselves, believing in one another, having faith, keeping the faith, trusting one another, trusting the process, healing from the damage that Meyer left this team with. 

That's why it just feels really bad right now as a fan. I guess the honeymoon phase is over and this is that part of the relationship where the sex is no longer fun and exciting and now we're just "that" couple looking to pick fights and start [BLEEP] over small things to create that "spark" for some great make-up sex. 

That's really how it feels man. 

Might be the oddest analogy but I feel like that's relatable for a lot of folks to understand. 

When you go from the highest of highs, to a little speed bump to now a dead end that's resulted in you sitting inside your car in an empty parking lot at your local Wal-Mart at 1:00 AM arguing with your girl on the phone like it's you against the world.