(03-24-2023, 12:30 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Puberty blockers and certain other hormonal therapies were never controversial before 2015. It's not hard to find articles describing what it was like for certain people to go through puberty at age 5. Not fun! Very difficult socially. 5 year olds are never prepared emotionally or socially to deal with adult urges and adult bodies. Up until a few decades ago, medical science couldn't fix it. Now they can.
I get called transphobic on other forums. That's unfortunate, but I would openly identify as trans-skeptic. But that doesn't mean I lack empathy. I think these people have a very difficult condition that should not be ignored. A 10 year old child who was born with a normal vagina but insists they are a boy, is emotionally and socially unwell, and needs some sort of treatment, we all agree. If we can agree that all five year olds aren't ready for puberty, we should all be able to agree that certain 10 year olds and 12 year olds, such as these, aren't ready either. Puberty blockers are an appropriate treatment in both cases.
That might be the absolute worst equivalency I've ever seen. You really said that because we need to delay puberty for those who are not physically at the age to endure it we should delay it for others who have mental illness? No, we should not intentionally delay a natural developmental process that is occurring at the appropriate time. No.
(03-24-2023, 01:10 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Studies that aren't motivated by profit disagree with you.
Which studies disagree with which part of what I said? Did these studies weigh the benefit of potentially reducing teen suicide along with the alleged drawbacks of the puberty blockers? Did they look at puberty blockers in isolation, or did they look at them in conjunction with cross gender hormones?
(03-24-2023, 01:14 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-24-2023, 12:30 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Puberty blockers and certain other hormonal therapies were never controversial before 2015. It's not hard to find articles describing what it was like for certain people to go through puberty at age 5. Not fun! Very difficult socially. 5 year olds are never prepared emotionally or socially to deal with adult urges and adult bodies. Up until a few decades ago, medical science couldn't fix it. Now they can.
I get called transphobic on other forums. That's unfortunate, but I would openly identify as trans-skeptic. But that doesn't mean I lack empathy. I think these people have a very difficult condition that should not be ignored. A 10 year old child who was born with a normal vagina but insists they are a boy, is emotionally and socially unwell, and needs some sort of treatment, we all agree. If we can agree that all five year olds aren't ready for puberty, we should all be able to agree that certain 10 year olds and 12 year olds, such as these, aren't ready either. Puberty blockers are an appropriate treatment in both cases.
That might be the absolute worst equivalency I've ever seen. You really said that because we need to delay puberty for those who are not physically at the age to endure it we should delay it for others who have mental illness? No, we should not intentionally delay a natural developmental process that is occurring at the appropriate time. No.
Lina Medina delivered a baby at age 5 with minimal prenatal care. She was physically at the age to endure all consequences of puberty. The only reason any person of any age delays their puberty is social and emotional.
Screw you Mike. Have you had to endure ANYTHING related to hormone issues?
I'm dealing with it right now going through the absolute worst perimenopause anyone I know has heard about, to include my very experienced doctor. It's like a perfect [BLEEP] storm of mental and physical misery that is barely controlled by hormone replacement therapy that we can't seem to get quite right but it's better than nothing. And because of HRT my thyroid is affected but I can't do a damn thing about it because I have adrenal fatigue.
I'm not going into anymore detail than that but I guarantee you I know a hell of a lot more about how hormones affect the body than you ever will and none of your reading material qualifies you to have a knowledgeable opinion. Stop making yourself look foolish.
That was a verbal [BLEEP] whoopin if I ever read one lololol
(03-24-2023, 05:30 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Screw you Mike. Have you had to endure ANYTHING related to hormone issues?
I'm dealing with it right now going through the absolute worst perimenopause anyone I know has heard about, to include my very experienced doctor. It's like a perfect [BLEEP] storm of mental and physical misery that is barely controlled by hormone replacement therapy that we can't seem to get quite right but it's better than nothing. And because of HRT my thyroid is affected but I can't do a damn thing about it because I have adrenal fatigue.
I'm not going into anymore detail than that but I guarantee you I know a hell of a lot more about how hormones affect the body than you ever will and none of your reading material qualifies you to have a knowledgeable opinion. Stop making yourself look foolish.
I'm sorry you're having difficulty. My mother had a very bad experience around age 50 as well. I have no idea what that feels like and I never will and I never said I did.
So, with your greatly increased knowledge of how hormones work in women around age 50, what did I say about treatments for people under 18 that was incorrect?
(03-24-2023, 05:58 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]That was a verbal [BLEEP] whoopin if I ever read one lololol
Just because she's mad doesn't mean she's right.
(03-24-2023, 06:32 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (03-24-2023, 06:05 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry you're having difficulty. My mother had a very bad experience around age 50 as well. I have no idea what that feels like and I never will and I never said I did.
So, with your greatly increased knowledge of how hormones work in women around age 50, what did I say about treatments for people under 18 that was incorrect?
Just because she's mad doesn't mean she's right.
In this case it does..
What did I say that was wrong, and where in her post did she point out that it was wrong?
She's right in saying that you have no clue when it comes to certain hormones in her genetic makeup. There's just some things that we'll never grasp unless we experience them ourselves. And that goes for both sexes.. And if anyone around here knows your M.O., it’s giving everyone on here a regurgitated version of a wiki page, which was coming next until she stopped you dead in your tracks with a handbag full of hammers..
(03-24-2023, 07:25 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]She's right in saying that you have no clue when it comes to certain hormones in her genetic makeup. There's just some things that we'll never grasp unless we experience them ourselves. And that goes for both sexes.. And if anyone around here knows your M.O., it’s giving everyone on here a regurgitated version of a wiki page, which was coming next until she stopped you dead in your tracks with a handbag full of hammers..
I'm confused. Is she a transgender kid?
She didn't say she was. She is saying it's stupid to [BLEEP] with hormones unless absolutely necessary, and the studies support that conclusion. Unless a kid is born with both a penis and vagina, we don't need to do much of anything to alter them in their teens. MOST body dysmorphia goes away over time. This is what most kids are dealing with. We need to stop coddling the American mind. Mental illness is real, but sometimes the best thing that can be done is to confront these delusions.
I wonder what ChatGPT would say about this..
(03-24-2023, 08:52 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]She didn't say she was. She is saying it's stupid to [BLEEP] with hormones unless absolutely necessary, and the studies support that conclusion. Unless a kid is born with both a penis and vagina, we don't need to do much of anything to alter them in their teens. MOST body dysmorphia goes away over time. This is what most kids are dealing with. We need to stop coddling the American mind. Mental illness is real, but sometimes the best thing that can be done is to confront these delusions.
It is stupid to mess with hormones unless absolutely necessary. I dont disagree. But when the percentage of people with this identification committing suicide is so high, I think that reaches the threshold of being able to mess with hormones. And we know that suicide attempt rates peak right after puberty. So why not encourage this one specific subpopulation to delay their puberty until they figure more stuff out?
It's been a while since I've read the Florida Times-Union so I took advantage of their introductory subscription offer and signed up to see how it's doing. If you access the site, as I'm doing, there are two sides to it. One side is a mixture of a small amount of local news along with healthy doses of Gannett publication articles from around Florida and the country. If anyone has had the misfortune of reading a USA Today edition, then you understand the Gannett publishing model of leftist bias. All pretentions of neutrality and context remain moldering by the wayside. It's an endless litany of slanted news and opinion.
However, with the subscription, there is also access to the eNewspaper, which is what is published on paper locally. This side of the site offers a more local focus, but again with a dose of Gannett and AP screeds. The Letters to the Editor section is the most disheartening to behold of what has become of our local paper tying itself to a national brand to stay afloat. I've had a few letters published in the T-U years ago when it was still an independent local newspaper with a brick-and-mortar office. The standards were a little more rigid. Now if one wishes to express any disdainful opinion of the Republicans, and especially Ron DeSantis, it gets top billing. One guy even wrote in saying DeSantis was using fascist tactics. Back in the day of actual journalism, that would have been passed over. In the modern day of journalism where anything goes in order to try to make profit, with an emphasis on bashing anyone who doesn't toe the leftist line, standards are almost non-existent.
What a shame. I really used to like reading the local paper, but now it reads like an echo chamber of CNN.
(03-25-2023, 08:05 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]It's been a while since I've read the Florida Times-Union so I took advantage of their introductory subscription offer and signed up to see how it's doing. If you access the site, as I'm doing, there are two sides to it. One side is a mixture of a small amount of local news along with healthy doses of Gannett publication articles from around Florida and the country. If anyone has had the misfortune of reading a USA Today edition, then you understand the Gannett publishing model of leftist bias. All pretentions of neutrality and context remain moldering by the wayside. It's an endless litany of slanted news and opinion.
However, with the subscription, there is also access to the eNewspaper, which is what is published on paper locally. This side of the site offers a more local focus, but again with a dose of Gannett and AP screeds. The Letters to the Editor section is the most disheartening to behold of what has become of our local paper tying itself to a national brand to stay afloat. I've had a few letters published in the T-U years ago when it was still an independent local newspaper with a brick-and-mortar office. The standards were a little more rigid. Now if one wishes to express any disdainful opinion of the Republicans, and especially Ron DeSantis, it gets top billing. One guy even wrote in saying DeSantis was using fascist tactics. Back in the day of actual journalism, that would have been passed over. In the modern day of journalism where anything goes in order to try to make profit, with an emphasis on bashing anyone who doesn't toe the leftist line, standards are almost non-existent.
What a shame. I really used to like reading the local paper, but now it reads like an echo chamber of CNN.
Local newspapers everywhere are a tradegy in slow motion. Local TV too.
And the hive mind has really taken its effort to redefine fascism as "anything Republicans like, or anything we don't like" into overdrive. Certainly events like January 6, the drive to use threats of violence to overule and sideline our elected leadership, were fascist, but most things Republicans do are nowhere near that map. Doesn't matter. "Your opinion angers me. I feel like you don't tolerate me. Therefore you are intolerant and I invoke Karl Popper on you and refuse to tolerate you or anything you say."
(03-24-2023, 06:05 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-24-2023, 05:30 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Screw you Mike. Have you had to endure ANYTHING related to hormone issues?
I'm dealing with it right now going through the absolute worst perimenopause anyone I know has heard about, to include my very experienced doctor. It's like a perfect [BLEEP] storm of mental and physical misery that is barely controlled by hormone replacement therapy that we can't seem to get quite right but it's better than nothing. And because of HRT my thyroid is affected but I can't do a damn thing about it because I have adrenal fatigue.
I'm not going into anymore detail than that but I guarantee you I know a hell of a lot more about how hormones affect the body than you ever will and none of your reading material qualifies you to have a knowledgeable opinion. Stop making yourself look foolish.
I'm sorry you're having difficulty. My mother had a very bad experience around age 50 as well. I have no idea what that feels like and I never will and I never said I did.
So, with your greatly increased knowledge of how hormones work in women around age 50, what did I say about treatments for people under 18 that was incorrect?
(03-24-2023, 05:58 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]That was a verbal [BLEEP] whoopin if I ever read one lololol
Just because she's mad doesn't mean she's right.
Lol. You are so delusional. For everything you change in the human body there is a reaction. I'll make it super simple for you....
Everyone has estrogen and testosterone but men and women have different levels of each according to their biological make-up. Testosterone for men and estrogen for women. It's pretty simple.
Adding hormones to a male body that is not biologically engineered to receive those extra hormones is going to do damage to the body and the mind. Same for doing it to the female body.
Restricting hormones from either sex when their bodies supposed to have them, we're talking puberty, does damage to the body and the mind.
When men and women's bodies start decreasing in those hormones later in life it does damage to the body and mind. For men it's andropause, for women it's menopause. Thankfully there are ways to help ease this
natural transition by using HRT to keep things from going off the rails. Unless you're like me and there's a perfect storm of three hormone related issues going on at once, but I digress.
Hormones in all their forms drive everything in the human body. To artificially alter any of it is detrimental. It can cause anything from depression to digestion issues to joint pain. That's the extremely short list.
Our bodies are constantly changing from birth to death and what feels weird at age 12 is going to feel different at ages 15, 18, 30 and so on.
I could go on about how medications given to kids, specifically meds for ADD/ADHD, and all the processed food kids eat actually alters their hormones and is probably what has led to this explosion in numbers of them being confused about who they are, but I have better ways to spend the rest of my Saturday.
You go ahead and wallow in your willful ignorance though. It seems to be your happy place.
(03-24-2023, 05:58 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]That was a verbal [BLEEP] whoopin if I ever read one lololol
I wasn't even really trying. I'm just tired of his schtick. He knows nothing but pretends he knows everything. As if reading about something makes you truly knowledgeable. Doctors don't know how to do their job until they actually start doing it. Book knowledge and real life knowledge are not the same thing.
Everything Mike 'knows' about this subject is definitely not from real life, or on-the-job knowledge.