Mikey ain't wrong about this. There is a true income disparity in the US that is widening and needs to be fixed.
(03-06-2023, 03:17 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Mikey ain't wrong about this. There is a true income disparity in the US that is widening and needs to be fixed.
I disagree. I don't see any need to fix it. I think if a person invents a product or service that we all like and want, and he sells enough of it to become a billionaire, more power to him. What he or she has done is a benefit to society. And as I have already shown, we already tax the hell out of these people.
But aside from that, if it was up to you, how would you fix it?
(03-06-2023, 06:58 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 03:17 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Mikey ain't wrong about this. There is a true income disparity in the US that is widening and needs to be fixed.
I disagree. I don't see any need to fix it. I think if a person invents a product or service that we all like and want, and he sells enough of it to become a billionaire, more power to him. What he or she has done is a benefit to society. And as I have already shown, we already tax the hell out of these people.
But aside from that, if it was up to you, how would you fix it?
That's kind of a fairytale. You might have people like Jobs or Gates in mind as you say this. I agree it's good for those people to get huge rewards for their accomplishments. Theres nothing wrong with the existence of billionaires per se. But we don't necessarily tax the hell out of them. They can acquire money by growing their business and selling shares of it afterwards, but, they are not always taxed on that. Often it goes to a trust. It's a convoluted issue, especially for the extreme cases at the very top, and the large corporations.
(03-06-2023, 08:45 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 06:58 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree. I don't see any need to fix it. I think if a person invents a product or service that we all like and want, and he sells enough of it to become a billionaire, more power to him. What he or she has done is a benefit to society. And as I have already shown, we already tax the hell out of these people.
But aside from that, if it was up to you, how would you fix it?
That's kind of a fairytale. You might have people like Jobs or Gates in mind as you say this. I agree it's good for those people to get huge rewards for their accomplishments. Theres nothing wrong with the existence of billionaires per se. But we don't necessarily tax the hell out of them. They can acquire money by growing their business and selling shares of it afterwards, but, they are not always taxed on that. Often it goes to a trust. It's a convoluted issue, especially for the extreme cases at the very top, and the large corporations.
It's also a fairytale to think by taxing them more that the additional tax revenue is going to go to some greater cause to help those in need. I'd pay more in taxes and advocate for all those billionaires to pay more if I thought society would receive some great benefit out of it, but we don't. At the end of the day, taxing them more is just going to put people out of jobs and stifle growth.
(03-06-2023, 09:14 AM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 08:45 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]That's kind of a fairytale. You might have people like Jobs or Gates in mind as you say this. I agree it's good for those people to get huge rewards for their accomplishments. Theres nothing wrong with the existence of billionaires per se. But we don't necessarily tax the hell out of them. They can acquire money by growing their business and selling shares of it afterwards, but, they are not always taxed on that. Often it goes to a trust. It's a convoluted issue, especially for the extreme cases at the very top, and the large corporations.
It's also a fairytale to think by taxing them more that the additional tax revenue is going to go to some greater cause to help those in need. I'd pay more in taxes and advocate for all those billionaires to pay more if I thought society would receive some great benefit out of it, but we don't. At the end of the day, taxing them more is just going to put people out of jobs and stifle growth.
I think that's a separate question but I don't disagree.
The most rational justification for trying to increase tax revenue is to reduce government debt, and therefore reduce interest rates and inflation. What the government spends that money on is a separate discussion.
(03-05-2023, 09:24 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2023, 06:27 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can you give me an example?
Adjusted gross income is not true income. It is income minus deductions. In 2022 the standard deduction is over $12k. You can still buy stuff with that $12k. Most people do.
Wellllllllllll, I'll give you credit for almost being right.
Adjusted Gross Income (Line 11 on Form 1040) is income minus SOME deductions. (Frex: alimony paid, IRA contributions, half of SE Tax).
However where you went wrong is that the Standard Deduction (and Schedule A Itemized Deductions) are NOT subtracted from income to arrive at Adjusted Gross Income.
Instead the Standard Deduction (and Schedule A Itemized Deductions) (Line 12 on Form 1040) plus Qualified Business Income Deduction (Line 13 on Form 1040) are subtracted FROM Adjusted Gross Income (Line 11 on Form 1040) to arrive at Taxable Income (Line 15 on Form 1040).
(03-06-2023, 11:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 08:45 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]That's kind of a fairytale. You might have people like Jobs or Gates in mind as you say this. I agree it's good for those people to get huge rewards for their accomplishments. Theres nothing wrong with the existence of billionaires per se. But we don't necessarily tax the hell out of them. They can acquire money by growing their business and selling shares of it afterwards, but, they are not always taxed on that. Often it goes to a trust. It's a convoluted issue, especially for the extreme cases at the very top, and the large corporations.
If they sell shares for more than the acquisition price, then they are taxed, always.
People are falling for the myth that we don't tax rich people, but it is a fact that rich people pay way more than most of the income taxes that are collected, and poorer people pay almost nothing in income taxes.
There are plenty of demagogues out there that will tell you rich people aren't paying their "fair share," but they are ignoring facts. In 2020, the top 1% of earners paid 42% of all the taxes collected. The bottom 50% of earners paid 2% of all the taxes collected.
Not when "they" is a trust. First the person transfers their shares or their options to a trust, then the trust sells them and collects the money.
(03-06-2023, 11:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 10:43 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Taxes suck
True
(03-06-2023, 10:53 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Taxation is theft.
Dangerously false.
Pfft. Word game time!
Theft - the physical removal of an item capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner.
I do not consent to income taxes therefore that money is stolen from me.
Ok, let's see your latest entry in the mental gymnastics!
(03-06-2023, 01:01 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 11:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]True
Dangerously false.
Pfft. Word game time!
Theft - the physical removal of an item capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner.
I do not consent to income taxes therefore that money is stolen from me.
Ok, let's see your latest entry in the mental gymnastics!
Right, there first has to be an owner for there to then be a theft. Who says you own anything?
(03-06-2023, 01:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 01:01 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Pfft. Word game time!
Theft - the physical removal of an item capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner.
I do not consent to income taxes therefore that money is stolen from me.
Ok, let's see your latest entry in the mental gymnastics!
Right, there first has to be an owner for there to then be a theft. Who says you own anything?
Our whole system is a scheme. There's nothing federal about the federal reserve. They set terms, dictate terms and create order out of chaos routinely and historically. Lending money they create by pulling it out of their [BLEEP] and lending it out to Big Brother with an interest fee tagged to it.
It is theft. Not only is it theft. Big Brother gets to decide what to do with that money more than any voter could ever dream of. I don't mind paying taxes. I just wish I had a say in exactly where it goes. If I want it to go more towards the educational system or the truly impoverished or homeless veterans? I should have the right to do so.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson.
(03-06-2023, 02:51 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 02:41 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Our whole system is a scheme. There's nothing federal about the federal reserve. They set terms, dictate terms and create order out of chaos routinely and historically. Lending money they create by pulling it out of their [BLEEP] and lending it out to Big Brother with an interest fee tagged to it.
It is theft. Not only is it theft. Big Brother gets to decide what to do with that money more than any voter could ever dream of. I don't mind paying taxes. I just wish I had a say in exactly where it goes. If I want it to go more towards the educational system or the truly impoverished or homeless veterans? I should have the right to do so.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson.
Took 3 seconds.
https://www.monticello.org/research-educ...quotation/
And?
After The Federal Reserve Act was signed:
President Wilson later came to regret signing the bill:
"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
Here's more to read on this.
https://famguardian.org/Subjects/MoneyBa...fadden.htm
Same group of men or type of men at the time also were looking to overthrow our Government and outright take it over.
https://www.arcadiapublishing.com/Naviga...rthrow-the
(03-06-2023, 06:58 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 03:17 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Mikey ain't wrong about this. There is a true income disparity in the US that is widening and needs to be fixed.
I disagree. I don't see any need to fix it. I think if a person invents a product or service that we all like and want, and he sells enough of it to become a billionaire, more power to him. What he or she has done is a benefit to society. And as I have already shown, we already tax the hell out of these people.
But aside from that, if it was up to you, how would you fix it?
I have already said what I'd do. I'd tether yearly income to the lowest paid employee of a company (100x), and I'd tether the highest yearly income in America to the median household income (100x).
I once bought into the unlimited wealth theory, but it's for simpletons. Once people start making obscene amounts of money, they turn it into political capital, essentially robbing us of our power. Either we take away the ability of the elites to impose their will on our society, or we start capping what the highest earners make.
2 things: Firstly, I don't care about the "they will just move argument." It's stupid. There is no shortage of entrepreneurial and ambitious people who would love to make more than 100X more their peers in this country. We'd be fine. Secondly, I don't think these people should be taxed. It doesn't do any good to give the money to the government. Instead, they only get taxed if they don't redistribute the money. They can give it to people if they want. They can reinvest it in approved public good ventures. They can increase the wages of the people in their company. I don't care what they do with the excess. They just can't keep it.
That's my solution. The stock market is a different animal that needs to be tamed, also.
(03-06-2023, 01:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 01:01 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Pfft. Word game time!
Theft - the physical removal of an item capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner.
I do not consent to income taxes therefore that money is stolen from me.
Ok, let's see your latest entry in the mental gymnastics!
Right, there first has to be an owner for there to then be a theft. Who says you own anything?
Good God. Get the hell out of here, Obama.