Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-25-2022, 02:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-25-2022, 01:44 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Who knew guys that give dollar bills to strippers were only doing it to celebrate the dancer’s gender? Crazy, huh?

I thought we were talking about kids with gender dysphoria.  Now you're talking about sexualization.  We can stay on topic if you want to stay on topic.

"Kids with gender dysphoria" formally knows and being a kid. I wanted to be Spiderman as a kid, I really, REALLY did.

What it is, is these selfish, child abusing "parents" that want to be seen as WOKE and popular that are forcing this idea on their kids. Its the same as the parent that makes their kids sick and keeps them sick so they can get attention and sympathy. This crap has gotten out of hand, and it ALL needs to stop...

This is now STATE sanctioned child abuse and nothing more..

(10-25-2022, 02:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-25-2022, 01:44 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Who knew guys that give dollar bills to strippers were only doing it to celebrate the dancer’s gender? Crazy, huh?

I thought we were talking about kids with gender dysphoria.  Now you're talking about sexualization.  We can stay on topic if you want to stay on topic.

We were but when the conversation turned to your side accessing children for sexualization under the guise of gender, you defaulted to your usual tactics when cornered.

(10-25-2022, 03:27 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-25-2022, 02:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I thought we were talking about kids with gender dysphoria.  Now you're talking about sexualization.  We can stay on topic if you want to stay on topic.

We were but when the conversation turned to your side accessing children for sexualization under the guise of gender, you defaulted to your usual tactics when cornered.

You brought up sexualization of kids, not me.  To state what should be obvious, I'm not in favor of sexualizing kids! I think that photo you posted is sad, obscene, shameful... words fail. But I don't see what this has to do with kids (under the advice of licensed psychologists) potentially changing the names and pronouns they use at school.  They are different things and you are the one confusing the two, not me.

Fetterman may have shown Biden up during his debate for being the most mentally disabled politician.

Not sure who thought that was a good idea to allow him to debate. The doctor should have his license pulled. His illegal alien wife needs to be put in jail and then deported for abusing him by forcing him out there when he can't even talk.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

I've read his 1st 2 books, The Way Things Ought To Be and, See, I Told You So......Going to delve in to this one as soon as I get the chance. Rush started writing this book before he passed away. I'm glad that his Wife and Brother decided to finish it so we could have one last helping of his logic, wit, and humor.......

(10-25-2022, 05:03 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-25-2022, 03:27 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]We were but when the conversation turned to your side accessing children for sexualization under the guise of gender, you defaulted to your usual tactics when cornered.

You brought up sexualization of kids, not me.  To state what should be obvious, I'm not in favor of sexualizing kids! I think that photo you posted is sad, obscene, shameful... words fail. But I don't see what this has to do with kids (under the advice of licensed psychologists) potentially changing the names and pronouns they use at school.  They are different things and you are the one confusing the two, not me.

My point being the sexualization of kids is the next step after inculcating them about gender at a young age. We know this because we’ve already seen schools and organizations enlist sex workers and drag queens to plant their message. How do you think the kids in the picture I posted were put into that position? The reason Crist and Biden don’t want to address the gender issue is because they recognize the outright creep factor and its progression to child grooming.

(10-26-2022, 08:44 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-25-2022, 05:03 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You brought up sexualization of kids, not me.  To state what should be obvious, I'm not in favor of sexualizing kids! I think that photo you posted is sad, obscene, shameful... words fail. But I don't see what this has to do with kids (under the advice of licensed psychologists) potentially changing the names and pronouns they use at school.  They are different things and you are the one confusing the two, not me.

My point being the sexualization of kids is the next step after inculcating them about gender at a young age. We know this because we’ve already seen schools and organizations enlist sex workers and drag queens to plant their message. How do you think the kids in the picture I posted were put into that position? The reason Crist and Biden don’t want to address the gender issue is because they recognize the outright creep factor and its progression to child grooming.

This is the part where I remind you that I had no problem with Florida's new Parental Rights in Education bill. Prior to fourth grade, any instruction about how a brain has a gender identity that is distinct from anatomy is not allowed.  Any talk of dysphoria at that age would be 100% child-initiated.

(10-26-2022, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 08:44 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]My point being the sexualization of kids is the next step after inculcating them about gender at a young age. We know this because we’ve already seen schools and organizations enlist sex workers and drag queens to plant their message. How do you think the kids in the picture I posted were put into that position? The reason Crist and Biden don’t want to address the gender issue is because they recognize the outright creep factor and its progression to child grooming.

This is the part where I remind you that I had no problem with Florida's new Parental Rights in Education bill. Prior to fourth grade, any instruction about how a brain has a gender identity that is distinct from anatomy is not allowed.  Any talk of dysphoria at that age would be 100% child-initiated.

That is still an 8 to 9 year old.  Are you really saying that you approve of proposing that an 8-9 year old should think about the possibility of changing his/her sex?

(10-26-2022, 09:31 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]This is the part where I remind you that I had no problem with Florida's new Parental Rights in Education bill. Prior to fourth grade, any instruction about how a brain has a gender identity that is distinct from anatomy is not allowed.  Any talk of dysphoria at that age would be 100% child-initiated.

That is still an 8 to 9 year old.  Are you really saying that you approve of proposing that an 8-9 year old should think about the possibility of changing his/her sex?

Are you really saying that DeSantis and the Legislature didn't go far enough on this issue?

(10-26-2022, 09:34 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 09:31 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]That is still an 8 to 9 year old.  Are you really saying that you approve of proposing that an 8-9 year old should think about the possibility of changing his/her sex?

Are you really saying that DeSantis and the Legislature didn't go far enough on this issue?

Absolutely. 8-9 is too young, IMHO. I don't know how much of that law was DeSantis and how much was the Legislature, but certainly DeSantis can personally avoid exposure to this for his own kids by home schooling or private schooling, but others can't. And I agree with you that this issue has been ridiculously amplified at this point, because that's what radicals from both sides do to get an issue normalized that only a tiny fraction of the population even cares about. But this also opens the door to faddism; except in this case, its not just experimenting with homosexuality/bisexuality in college and rejecting it later, it's effecting potential irreversible and damaging change to the body. My ultimate question is: why do this at all? Why present this option? Why override sound anatomical and physiological design and science with psychological feelings and emotions that most likely will resolve to being heteronormative eventually?

Worthy of reposting:

https://youtube.com/shorts/4d6VPu6L-1U?feature=share

(10-26-2022, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 08:44 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]My point being the sexualization of kids is the next step after inculcating them about gender at a young age. We know this because we’ve already seen schools and organizations enlist sex workers and drag queens to plant their message. How do you think the kids in the picture I posted were put into that position? The reason Crist and Biden don’t want to address the gender issue is because they recognize the outright creep factor and its progression to child grooming.

This is the part where I remind you that I had no problem with Florida's new Parental Rights in Education bill. Prior to fourth grade, any instruction about how a brain has a gender identity that is distinct from anatomy is not allowed.  Any talk of dysphoria at that age would be 100% child-initiated.

Gender is distinct from anatomy? 

You are so easily manipulated. It's like you have an inability to see where other people are lying to you. If this movement were centered around masculinity vs femininity only, in the sense that girls can want to blow things up and boys can want to wear items that make them feel feminine, it would not be NEARLY the issue it is in our culture. HOWEVER, that's not what this is about. The LEFT has conflated gender and sex, and ONLY uses that exact argument to appease non-thinking moderates. Can we have XY only bathrooms according to trans activists? Or XY only sports? No? 

If not, this isn't about "gender," as they have once again redefined a term, but about sex. Can men get pregnant, Mikey? Stop being so [BLEEP] gullible. Stop letting them redefine terms to change culture. If you were better read, you would understand the forces that are at work here, which is the malleability of language and culture as a tool for power. It works, but only because people like you can't seem to call [BLEEP] when you need to. 

I have really come to believe that this is a problem with our intellectuals being too afraid of looking stupid to draw a line in the sand with regards to linguistic integrity. Some douche comes along and changes the meaning of a word, and all the intellectuals line up to show how quickly they can adopt this new paradigm into their belief system.

(10-26-2022, 12:54 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]This is the part where I remind you that I had no problem with Florida's new Parental Rights in Education bill. Prior to fourth grade, any instruction about how a brain has a gender identity that is distinct from anatomy is not allowed.  Any talk of dysphoria at that age would be 100% child-initiated.

Gender is distinct from anatomy? 

You are so easily manipulated. It's like you have an inability to see where other people are lying to you. If this movement were centered around masculinity vs femininity only, in the sense that girls can want to blow things up and boys can want to wear items that make them feel feminine, it would not be NEARLY the issue it is in our culture. HOWEVER, that's not what this is about. The LEFT has conflated gender and sex, and ONLY uses that exact argument to appease non-thinking moderates. Can we have XY only bathrooms according to trans activists? Or XY only sports? No? 

If not, this isn't about "gender," as they have once again redefined a term, but about sex. Can men get pregnant, Mikey? Stop being so [BLEEP] gullible. Stop letting them redefine terms to change culture. If you were better read, you would understand the forces that are at work here, which is the malleability of language and culture as a tool for power. It works, but only because people like you can't seem to call [BLEEP] when you need to. 

I have really come to believe that this is a problem with our intellectuals being too afraid of looking stupid to draw a line in the sand with regards to linguistic integrity. Some douche comes along and changes the meaning of a word, and all the intellectuals line up to show how quickly they can adopt this new paradigm into their belief system.

Like most issues, this is messy.  You're demanding a standard of consistency which can only be met with an all or nothing approach. Lia Thomas and Bruce Jenner are very different from Kim Petras or Quinn or Jazz.  I do think women's sports should be more exclusive and Lia Thomas should never have been included.

I think we've only just begun to have a conversation about  what age is appropriate for a kid to change their pronouns and manner of dress (which is totally reversible). Or what age is appropriate for a puberty blocking hormone (which is also totally reversible). Or what age is appropriate for a cross gender hormone (which is not reversible). And finally what age is appropriate for surgery.  The right wants to say "no, never, nothing" is the answer to all of these questions and they are threatening anyone who thinks differently with prosecution. The left wants to say "mind your own business" is the answer to all of these questions, which is understandable because the other side is threatening prosecution, and they threaten anyone who thinks differently with cancelation.  So both sides are putting out messages that have a massive chilling effect on the actual difficult conversation we need to have.  

You do get one thing right.  We are being manipulated and it is for political gain.  However, it is not at all this nebulous academic Left that supposedly has long term plans to overturn the constitution and usher in some nebulous, yet-to-be defined dictatorship of the proletariat.  To the extent that such people exist, they do not have the influence to create the moral panic we are in at the moment. It's much more simple than that.  This issue is bad for Democrats.  Discussing it helps Republicans.  Republicans who are currently elected and who are seeking reelection are using this issue, and discussing it in the most unproductive way possible, so it remains unresolved and so they can milk it for a few more cycles.

(10-26-2022, 09:31 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]This is the part where I remind you that I had no problem with Florida's new Parental Rights in Education bill. Prior to fourth grade, any instruction about how a brain has a gender identity that is distinct from anatomy is not allowed.  Any talk of dysphoria at that age would be 100% child-initiated.

That is still an 8 to 9 year old.  Are you really saying that you approve of proposing that an 8-9 year old should think about the possibility of changing his/her sex?

Of course he is. He's already stated he doesn't have a problem with hormone blockers and pretty much all of his arguments seem to lean toward allowing kids to make their own decisions despite what their parents say. IIRC he did once say kids shouldn't actually have surgery until they turn 18.

(10-26-2022, 04:14 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 09:31 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]That is still an 8 to 9 year old.  Are you really saying that you approve of proposing that an 8-9 year old should think about the possibility of changing his/her sex?

Of course he is. He's already stated he doesn't have a problem with hormone blockers and pretty much all of his arguments seem to lean toward allowing kids to make their own decisions despite what their parents say. IIRC he did once say kids shouldn't actually have surgery until they turn 18.

I don't think anything should be done without consulting the parents. Not even changing pronouns. If the parents are totally unsupportive and situation escalates to the point where a reasonable person thinks the kid is in imminent danger of harm, the kid could be removed from the parents, we already have laws and procedures for that.  But that would be a few steps down the road.  

Very very few kids have any transgender feelings.  Less than 1%.
Of these, most report to their parents first.  Not to the school.
Of these, most parents take it slow and see what happens.  Freaking out and condemning would be the worst thing and parents know that.  
So most of the time the school is only getting involved at the parents' request, not at the school's initiation.
If your kid ends up having a classmate who transitions, your job as a parent is the same as it always was. "Johnny, not every family is like ours.  You can be friends with that kid or not, but you are never allowed to pick on them for being different." Simple.
Amazing how overblown all of this is.

(10-26-2022, 01:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 12:54 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Gender is distinct from anatomy? 

You are so easily manipulated. It's like you have an inability to see where other people are lying to you. If this movement were centered around masculinity vs femininity only, in the sense that girls can want to blow things up and boys can want to wear items that make them feel feminine, it would not be NEARLY the issue it is in our culture. HOWEVER, that's not what this is about. The LEFT has conflated gender and sex, and ONLY uses that exact argument to appease non-thinking moderates. Can we have XY only bathrooms according to trans activists? Or XY only sports? No? 

If not, this isn't about "gender," as they have once again redefined a term, but about sex. Can men get pregnant, Mikey? Stop being so [BLEEP] gullible. Stop letting them redefine terms to change culture. If you were better read, you would understand the forces that are at work here, which is the malleability of language and culture as a tool for power. It works, but only because people like you can't seem to call [BLEEP] when you need to. 

I have really come to believe that this is a problem with our intellectuals being too afraid of looking stupid to draw a line in the sand with regards to linguistic integrity. Some douche comes along and changes the meaning of a word, and all the intellectuals line up to show how quickly they can adopt this new paradigm into their belief system.

Like most issues, this is messy.  You're demanding a standard of consistency which can only be met with an all or nothing approach. Lia Thomas and Bruce Jenner are very different from Kim Petras or Quinn or Jazz.  I do think women's sports should be more exclusive and Lia Thomas should never have been included.

I think we've only just begun to have a conversation about  what age is appropriate for a kid to change their pronouns and manner of dress (which is totally reversible). Or what age is appropriate for a puberty blocking hormone (which is also totally reversible). Or what age is appropriate for a cross gender hormone (which is not reversible). And finally what age is appropriate for surgery.  The right wants to say "no, never, nothing" is the answer to all of these questions and they are threatening anyone who thinks differently with prosecution. The left wants to say "mind your own business" is the answer to all of these questions, which is understandable because the other side is threatening prosecution, and they threaten anyone who thinks differently with cancelation.  So both sides are putting out messages that have a massive chilling effect on the actual difficult conversation we need to have.  

You do get one thing right.  We are being manipulated and it is for political gain.  However, it is not at all this nebulous academic Left that supposedly has long term plans to overturn the constitution and usher in some nebulous, yet-to-be defined dictatorship of the proletariat.  To the extent that such people exist, they do not have the influence to create the moral panic we are in at the moment. It's much more simple than that.  This issue is bad for Democrats.  Discussing it helps Republicans.  Republicans who are currently elected and who are seeking reelection are using this issue, and discussing it in the most unproductive way possible, so it remains unresolved and so they can milk it for a few more cycles.

This issue is only messy because you're too quick to adopt stupid premises. We shouldn't be having a conversation about when kids get to "choose" their gender. It's not really a thing one should be choosing, especially not if it exists on a spectrum like what people claim. This is just another attempt to sexualize children, destroy cultural norms, and usher in a new generation with no preconceived notions about what their society is supposed to "look" like. This comes from progressive ideology that has concerned itself with eradicating western culture, which is doing so by stopping its reproduction. 

Actual body dysmorphia is a mental disorder that needs to be treated, because those people commit suicides at alarming rates. Nothing that is being done by the left is genuinely attempting to solve that. Now, young people who are easily manipulated and sociopaths are using this type of victimhood to find a place in this "new" cultural paradigm. It's stupid. And you're an enabler.

(10-26-2022, 07:39 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-26-2022, 01:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Like most issues, this is messy.  You're demanding a standard of consistency which can only be met with an all or nothing approach. Lia Thomas and Bruce Jenner are very different from Kim Petras or Quinn or Jazz.  I do think women's sports should be more exclusive and Lia Thomas should never have been included.

I think we've only just begun to have a conversation about  what age is appropriate for a kid to change their pronouns and manner of dress (which is totally reversible). Or what age is appropriate for a puberty blocking hormone (which is also totally reversible). Or what age is appropriate for a cross gender hormone (which is not reversible). And finally what age is appropriate for surgery.  The right wants to say "no, never, nothing" is the answer to all of these questions and they are threatening anyone who thinks differently with prosecution. The left wants to say "mind your own business" is the answer to all of these questions, which is understandable because the other side is threatening prosecution, and they threaten anyone who thinks differently with cancelation.  So both sides are putting out messages that have a massive chilling effect on the actual difficult conversation we need to have.  

You do get one thing right.  We are being manipulated and it is for political gain.  However, it is not at all this nebulous academic Left that supposedly has long term plans to overturn the constitution and usher in some nebulous, yet-to-be defined dictatorship of the proletariat.  To the extent that such people exist, they do not have the influence to create the moral panic we are in at the moment. It's much more simple than that.  This issue is bad for Democrats.  Discussing it helps Republicans.  Republicans who are currently elected and who are seeking reelection are using this issue, and discussing it in the most unproductive way possible, so it remains unresolved and so they can milk it for a few more cycles.

This issue is only messy because you're too quick to adopt stupid premises. We shouldn't be having a conversation about when kids get to "choose" their gender. It's not really a thing one should be choosing, especially not if it exists on a spectrum like what people claim. This is just another attempt to sexualize children, destroy cultural norms, and usher in a new generation with no preconceived notions about what their society is supposed to "look" like. This comes from progressive ideology that has concerned itself with eradicating western culture, which is doing so by stopping its reproduction. 

Actual body dysmorphia is a mental disorder that needs to be treated, because those people commit suicides at alarming rates. Nothing that is being done by the left is genuinely attempting to solve that. Now, young people who are easily manipulated and sociopaths are using this type of victimhood to find a place in this "new" cultural paradigm. It's stupid. And you're an enabler.

I dont think I used the verb choose.
There are some people, very unstable and very wrong, who believe children should be raised as gender ambiguous.  That is ridiculous.  More than 99% of kids will have no confusion about their gender or anatomy. No reasonable person thinks we should change their experience as toddlers or grade schoolers for the sake of the less than 1% who end up expressing dysphoria.  The idiot lady we saw in that video teaching toddlers to question their gender is completely off the deep end.  I hope she faces real consequences.  But as long as they stop teaching that way soon, the kids will forget what they've learned.  It will have no application to most of them.  
So I don't think anyone should be taught that this is a choice.  I'm just saying, what do we do with the kids who are this way and don't remember choosing it, in all likelihood they did not choose it.  Obviously the one response that's always age appropriate is "I hear you, I understand, but let's keep it a secret for now because other kids won't understand." But at a certain point "OK, let's change your name and your clothes" becomes the more appropriate response. And then there are the discussions you have to have with a psychologist before and after that.  And eventually discussions with an endocrinologist, etc.
So if we actually cared about winning tomorrow's political battle rather than rehashing one from 1848, we would acknowledge all of this, we would express sympathy, and we would start putting up realistic government guardrails about when certain treatments are appropriate, with age limits, licensing requirements, requirements to consult multiple professionals, etc.
You have to understand that there are parents out there, who never encouraged or wanted anything like this, who have their kids in church daycare or no daycare at all, and find their son asking why it hurts when they try to cut their penis off with scissors. Yet one side calls such parents groomers when they report these issues.

Look, dude. If a 13-year-old boy is like, I like wearing dressing, drawing flowers, and dancing, you don't need to say, I hear you, but let's keep that a secret. You say, you do you, pal. However, if a 13-year-old boy says I'm about to start my period soon, wants to join girls' soccer, and can't wait to have gender reassignment surgery, he has a mental disorder. NOBODY should be suggesting he hide his delusions or offering him puberty blockers. You would NOT have held this position 10 years ago. You are being manipulated.

I've said it before in various topics, and I'll say it again here. The only person who has a legitimate claim of 'sex/gender dysphoria' is a biological hermaphrodite. Anyone else claiming this, as L2L said above, has a mental disorder.

(10-26-2022, 11:29 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]I've said it before in various topics, and I'll say it again here.  The only person who has a legitimate claim of 'sex/gender dysphoria' is a biological hermaphrodite.  Anyone else claiming this, as L2L said above, has a mental disorder.

Right. And society has an obligation to help people with mental disorders, give them hope, and prevent suicide.