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(02-04-2023, 11:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-04-2023, 04:57 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, it does provide an advantage for gathering SIGINT (Signals Intelligence). 

When you hear about spy aircraft flying off the coast of opposing nations, what they’re doing is listening for and gathering electronic signals ranging from communications to RADAR signatures. That’s how threat libraries of search and fire control RADARS are assembled to program into countermeasure devices on aircraft flying into hostile environments. 

What this balloon was doing, in my opinion, was attempting to gather SIGINT from nuclear missile and strategic air bases too far inland to be surveilled by aircraft. This is why the Pentagon said they had taken measures to prevent the balloon from gathering intelligence. They went into an EMCON (Emissions Control) condition which suspends use of certain RF spectra to prevent detection and recording.

However, we can also gather intelligence from the balloon because it was most assuredly transmitting information itself. We intercept those signals and study them. 

It was an open game of spy versus spy.

Well I stand corrected if this is true.

I just find it hard to believe a balloon (Obviously it’s more than just a balloon) can gather intel that someone can’t just hack with a computer.

Because you're too young to know when over-the-air communications was essential to the average person, and you've never been in the military. I don't mean that in a condescending manner, it's just a statement of fact. Militaries the world over still rely heavily, and with the most eminence of importance, on the electromagnetic spectrum for communications (digital and analog), detection, interference, countermeasure, and a wide variety of other uses. The Radio Frequency spectrum crackles with activity around strategically important and forward deployed military assets. In that realm, computers networks are the manipulators, but not the medium. Even your cellphone relies on it. Satellites fly too high to detect tropospheric RF energy, but balloons don't. They can gather a tremendous amount of signal, and visual data via extremely high-resolution cameras, and instantly transmit that data spaceward. 

With that being said, do I believe the Chinese gathered much data? No, and that was not their intention. The Chinese simply poked the gorilla with a stick and then observed our reaction. Not just military-wise, but political and social. This is how the Chinese work. They are patient with long-term goals. In this instance, they literally floated a trial balloon and watched the reaction to gather data on how our National Command structure and society reacted. Rightfully, in years past, nothing was said to the public when these balloons were detected. Our people know the Chinese want a public reaction and they denied that to them. Unfortunately, this one was spotted. I have no doubt the Chinese believed if they floated enough of these things, they would eventually succeed in getting the U.S. public's attention. The importance is to realize the balloon is simply a part of a much bigger puzzle being pieced together.

I ran across this article this morning which supports my assertion. 

That Downed Chinese Balloon Wasn’t Exactly For Spying. It Was a ‘Trial’ Balloon (msn.com)

(02-05-2023, 01:38 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-04-2023, 11:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Well I stand corrected if this is true.

I just find it hard to believe a balloon (Obviously it’s more than just a balloon) can gather intel that someone can’t just hack with a computer.

Because you're too young to know when over-the-air communications was essential to the average person, and you've never been in the military. I don't mean that in a condescending manner, it's just a statement of fact. Militaries the world over still rely heavily, and with the most eminence of importance, on the electromagnetic spectrum for communications (digital and analog), detection, interference, countermeasure, and a wide variety of other uses. The Radio Frequency spectrum crackles with activity around strategically important and forward deployed military assets. In that realm, computers networks are the manipulators, but not the medium. Even your cellphone relies on it. Satellites fly too high to detect tropospheric RF energy, but balloons don't. They can gather a tremendous amount of signal, and visual data via extremely high-resolution cameras, and instantly transmit that data spaceward. 

With that being said, do I believe the Chinese gathered much data? No, and that was not their intention. The Chinese simply poked the gorilla with a stick and then observed our reaction. Not just military-wise, but political and social. This is how the Chinese work. They are patient with long-term goals. In this instance, they literally floated a trial balloon and watched the reaction to gather data on how our National Command structure and society reacted. Rightfully, in years past, nothing was said to the public when these balloons were detected. Our people know the Chinese want a public reaction and they denied that to them. Unfortunately, this one was spotted. I have no doubt the Chinese believed if they floated enough of these things, they would eventually succeed in getting the U.S. public's attention. The importance is to realize the balloon is simply a part of a much bigger puzzle being pieced together.

I ran across this article this morning which supports my assertion. 

That Downed Chinese Balloon Wasn’t Exactly For Spying. It Was a ‘Trial’ Balloon (msn.com)

That’s a good read.

Thanks for sharing

(02-05-2023, 02:02 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]We don't have any of these lurking around anywhere, nope, sure don't.

Sure we do, but are we flying them above China’s sovereign airspace?

Word coming out now that this happened at least three times during the Trump Admin but was never disclosed to the public.

(02-05-2023, 11:47 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Word coming out now that this happened at least three times during the Trump Admin but was never disclosed to the public.

lololol

No way am I believing that one lol

Sorry, but we'd have seen video evidence the minute it happened.. That would have been the Libs own personal Pavolv's dog lolol

(02-05-2023, 11:55 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-05-2023, 11:47 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Word coming out now that this happened at least three times during the Trump Admin but was never disclosed to the public.

lololol

No way am I believing that one lol

Sorry, but we'd have seen video evidence the minute it happened.. That would have been the Libs own personal Pavolv's dog lolol

Actually, it's more likely that the Deep State permitted their CCP masters to do so and hid it from the President.

(02-06-2023, 09:03 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-05-2023, 11:55 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]lololol

No way am I believing that one lol

Sorry, but we'd have seen video evidence the minute it happened.. That would have been the Libs own personal Pavolv's dog lolol

Actually, it's more likely that the Deep State permitted their CCP masters to do so and hid it from the President.

Still extremely far fetched.. Everyone owns a smart phone with camera. Trump would have gotten roasted 6 ways from Sunday if that happened on his watch.

Yes, there were other balloons while Trump was in office, but, we, umm, didn’t know about it. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

— Biden official 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chinese...n-official

Mark Esper, John Ratcliffe and Mike Pompeo all refuted that claim.

DeSantis files complaint against Orlando Philharmonic for hosting ‘sexually explicit’ drag event (msn.com)

...Before the event, the administration reportedly warned the venue that its license would be subject to penalties if it refused to ban children from attending the performances. Some of the children in attendance “appeared to be younger than six years old” and alcohol was allegedly sold.

In response to the warning, organisers reportedly placed a sign saying that while minors were not restricted, “some may think that the context is not appropriate for [people] under 18.”

The department also accused performers of “intentionally exposing prosthetic breasts and genitalia, buttocks” and “depictions of childbirth and abortion.”

The complaint alleges that the show violated six statutes in the state. The Independent has contacted the Orlando Philarmonic Foundation for comment.

In July, DeSantis’ administration also filed a state complaint against the R House in Miami, claiming that the restaurant in the Wynwood neighbourhood had hosted weekend brunches in which minors are exposed to “sexually explicit drag shows.”

The bar was accused of disorderly conduct, and the complaint argued that “the nature of the performances ... particularly when conducted in the presence of young children, corrupts the public morals and outrages the sense of public decency”, according to The Miami Herald.

(02-06-2023, 12:22 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, there were other balloons while Trump was in office, but, we, umm, didn’t know about it. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

— Biden official 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chinese...n-official

It either happened or it didn’t.  I find it hard to believe Trump would have let one fly(float) by.  I find it hard to believe they’d try with him in office.  IF, it happened and we didn’t know about it, I’d say the government did its job.  I understand why some things don’t come to light to “us civilians”.

(02-06-2023, 07:55 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2023, 12:22 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, there were other balloons while Trump was in office, but, we, umm, didn’t know about it. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

— Biden official 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chinese...n-official

It either happened or it didn’t.  I find it hard to believe Trump would have let one fly(float) by.  I find it hard to believe they’d try with him in office.  IF, it happened and we didn’t know about it, I’d say the government did its job.  I understand why some things don’t come to light to “us civilians”.

But if it did actually happen, and they hid it from Trump, that is Treasonous.

(02-06-2023, 08:08 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2023, 07:55 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]It either happened or it didn’t.  I find it hard to believe Trump would have let one fly(float) by.  I find it hard to believe they’d try with him in office.  IF, it happened and we didn’t know about it, I’d say the government did its job.  I understand why some things don’t come to light to “us civilians”.

But if it did actually happen, and they hid it from Trump, that is Treasonous.

You can't be surprised.

(02-06-2023, 12:18 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2023, 09:03 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, it's more likely that the Deep State permitted their CCP masters to do so and hid it from the President.

Still extremely far fetched.. Everyone owns a smart phone with camera. Trump would have gotten roasted 6 ways from Sunday if that happened on his watch.

Not far fetched at all. We had numerous incidents during his administration where his underlings circumvented his instructions. Just to recount one, Chairman of the JCS Mark Milley told the ChiComs he'd let them know if we were going to attack. 

"I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay. If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise." [font=Georgia, 'Century Gothic', tahoma, verdana]Milley to Gen. Li Zoucheng, on Oct. 30, 2020.[/font]

That's not some hack talking either, that's from Bob Woodward. It's not a hard thing to believe at all.

(02-07-2023, 05:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2023, 12:18 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Still extremely far fetched.. Everyone owns a smart phone with camera. Trump would have gotten roasted 6 ways from Sunday if that happened on his watch.

Not far fetched at all. We had numerous incidents during his administration where his underlings circumvented his instructions. Just to recount one, Chairman of the JCS Mark Milley told the ChiComs he'd let them know if we were going to attack. 

"I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay. If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise." [font=Georgia, 'Century Gothic', tahoma, verdana]Milley to Gen. Li Zoucheng, on Oct. 30, 2020.[/font]

That's not some hack talking either, that's from Bob Woodward. It's not a hard thing to believe at all.

I don't blame Milley at all.
Trump is too vain and impulsive for adult conversations.  Everyone who has ever dealt with him other his children, wives, and Mike Pompeo agrees about this.

(02-07-2023, 05:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2023, 12:18 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Still extremely far fetched.. Everyone owns a smart phone with camera. Trump would have gotten roasted 6 ways from Sunday if that happened on his watch.

Not far fetched at all. We had numerous incidents during his administration where his underlings circumvented his instructions. Just to recount one, Chairman of the JCS Mark Milley told the ChiComs he'd let them know if we were going to attack. 

"I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay. If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise." [font=Georgia, 'Century Gothic', tahoma, verdana]Milley to Gen. Li Zoucheng, on Oct. 30, 2020.[/font]

That's not some hack talking either, that's from Bob Woodward. It's not a hard thing to believe at all.

Proof or it's bull [BLEEP].

(02-07-2023, 05:48 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2023, 05:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Not far fetched at all. We had numerous incidents during his administration where his underlings circumvented his instructions. Just to recount one, Chairman of the JCS Mark Milley told the ChiComs he'd let them know if we were going to attack. 

"I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay. If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise." [font=Georgia, 'Century Gothic', tahoma, verdana]Milley to Gen. Li Zoucheng, on Oct. 30, 2020.[/font]

That's not some hack talking either, that's from Bob Woodward. It's not a hard thing to believe at all.

Proof or it's bull [BLEEP].

Well, I mean, he admitted it, so...

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/15/103745473...bout-trump

Milley confirms that he spoke to Li and other world military leaders in October and in January. But Joint Staff spokesperson Col. Dave Butler said those communications were part of his normal duties and responsibilities "conveying reassurance in order to maintain strategic stability."


Butler also said Milley did not break protocol in the way he got in touch with Li. "All calls from the Chairman to his counterparts, including those reported, are staffed, coordinated and communicated with the Department of Defense" as well as the U.S. security and intelligence community's interagency pipeline, Butler said.

And Big Don and Little Marco thought so too:

In response to reports about Milley's actions as described in the book, Trump and his allies said the general's behavior was treasonous.

If the accounts are accurate, Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., said, "It was an act of treachery that posed a grave risk to our security & our constitutional order."