It’s the fact that so many borrowed huge amounts of money to get worthless liberal arts degrees that is so aggravating. Who knew a philosophy degree wouldn’t garner a high paying job? Or any job, for that matter.
"Whether you can afford it or not" should not be what prevents you from going to college. Tying a poor or even middle class person into decades of debt to be able to go to college is a stain on this country and folks like you who are clamoring to return to the classism of the Gilded Age. We can and should do better. And "Loan forgiveness" is discharging interest debt that was never borrowed, it was created and assessed after the fact, it was never taken from anyone because it was never given out only added to take more from the people to fill the government's coffers with the wages of the Middle Class. That you guys just don't want to accept this basic fact shows that you don't really care about being paid back, you only care about making it hard on people you don't like for political jollies.
I'm so mad that my neighbor only gave me back $26,000 on that $10,000 loan I gave him and not $38,000. Such bull [BLEEP] from the right on this one, You guys should do better.
(08-09-2024, 09:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]"Whether you can afford it or not" should not be what prevents you from going to college. Tying a poor or even middle class person into decades of debt to be able to go to college is a stain on this country and folks like you who are clamoring to return to the classism of the Gilded Age. We can and should do better. And "Loan forgiveness" is discharging interest debt that was never borrowed, it was created and assessed after the fact, it was never taken from anyone because it was never given out only added to take more from the people to fill the government's coffers with the wages of the Middle Class. That you guys just don't want to accept this basic fact shows that you don't really care about being paid back, you only care about making it hard on people you don't like for political jollies.
I'm so mad that my neighbor only gave me back $26,000 on that $10,000 loan I gave him and not $38,000. Such bull [BLEEP] from the right on this one, You guys should do better.
What is the proper forgiveness amount? Is there a max? Should expenditures be scrutinized? I know people who used their loans for nice spots at the beach and picking up bar tabs at the Ritz while I lived on campus. Books and tuition only? Cmon, let's talk parameters.
(08-09-2024, 09:30 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]It’s the fact that so many borrowed huge amounts of money to get worthless liberal arts degrees that is so aggravating. Who knew a philosophy degree wouldn’t garner a high paying job? Or any job, for that matter.
Most treated their loans like an open ended credit card outside of education.
(08-09-2024, 09:46 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2024, 09:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]"Whether you can afford it or not" should not be what prevents you from going to college. Tying a poor or even middle class person into decades of debt to be able to go to college is a stain on this country and folks like you who are clamoring to return to the classism of the Gilded Age. We can and should do better. And "Loan forgiveness" is discharging interest debt that was never borrowed, it was created and assessed after the fact, it was never taken from anyone because it was never given out only added to take more from the people to fill the government's coffers with the wages of the Middle Class. That you guys just don't want to accept this basic fact shows that you don't really care about being paid back, you only care about making it hard on people you don't like for political jollies.
I'm so mad that my neighbor only gave me back $26,000 on that $10,000 loan I gave him and not $38,000. Such bull [BLEEP] from the right on this one, You guys should do better.
What is the proper forgiveness amount? Is there a max? Should expenditures be scrutinized? I know people who used their loans for nice spots at the beach and picking up bar tabs at the Ritz while I lived on campus. Books and tuition only? Cmon, let's talk parameters.
(08-09-2024, 09:30 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]It’s the fact that so many borrowed huge amounts of money to get worthless liberal arts degrees that is so aggravating. Who knew a philosophy degree wouldn’t garner a high paying job? Or any job, for that matter.
Most treated their loans like an open ended credit card outside of education.
The proper forgiveness amount is the interest. Expenditures can be scrutinized by simply paying the tuition and book costs directly to the school while also putting downward pressure on them to keep costs contained. This isn't complicated and we can fix it, but not by blasting people who did what they were supposed to and got screwed over by the government, the college marketers, and the predatory loan servicers.
And Philosophy degrees are extremely useful for white collar jobs, but not all white collar jobs are automatically rich either.
I don't have any interest (pun intended) in absolute loan forgiveness, but I do think it's wrong that we have a system set up to put most of these people into years long debt for the benefit of the government and loan servicing corporations.
FSG is right. And so is SC1. The system is being abused at both ends and the best way to end the abuse is to make sure the student isn't handling the money. Then the student's lifestyle choices outside class become irrelevant. The government should be granting money to the schools, and the schools should be matching that money with their own then loaning it out to the students who can't afford tuition. If the student cries poverty after graduation, that becomes the school's problem. Suddenly the needy but talented student looking for entry into the middle class may not be permitted to major in lower-paid areas of study. Or tuition goes down. One of the two.
(08-08-2024, 04:54 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2024, 03:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I wasn't for the entire mess that is the student loans scam, but the government chose to nationalize those loans. I don't believe an education should usuriously put people into a lifetime of predatory debt nor do I believe that education should only be for those of means. That doesn't mean I'm for discharging all loans, it simply means we should make the program better for students at the expense of the banks and government. If they haven't nationalized CC debt then it's not the same thing regardless of "directness." Not that complicated.
What I want to know is what is being done for the students that scrimped and lived close to the edge to pay their loans off? People beat the drum about fairness, equity etc. I see they don't really mean it a lot of the time or is only for certain people.
^^ This.
Also, what about the person that chose to live at home and go to UNF at the State Tuition Annual Rate of $6,000 rather then go to University of Georgia and pay the $30,000 annual out of state Tuition + Room & Board fees. Student A pays off his $24,000 College costs and Student B racks up ~ $160,000 in College costs and has the Gov bail him/her out.
IF I had to pass this bill, I would cap it at 50% of the State University Tuition rate. In this case, the forgiveness would be capped at $12,000 in the State of Florida.
(08-09-2024, 11:44 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2024, 04:54 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]What I want to know is what is being done for the students that scrimped and lived close to the edge to pay their loans off? People beat the drum about fairness, equity etc. I see they don't really mean it a lot of the time or is only for certain people.
^^ This.
Also, what about the person that chose to live at home and go to UNF at the State Tuition Annual Rate of $6,000 rather then go to University of Georgia and pay the $30,000 annual out of state Tuition + Room & Board fees. Student A pays off his $24,000 College costs and Student B racks up ~ $160,000 in College costs and has the Gov bail him/her out.
IF I had to pass this bill, I would cap it at 50% of the State University Tuition rate. In this case, the forgiveness would be capped at $12,000 in the State of Florida.
We shouldn't treat cancer, it's not fair that some people survived it.
(08-09-2024, 09:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]"Whether you can afford it or not" should not be what prevents you from going to college. Tying a poor or even middle class person into decades of debt to be able to go to college is a stain on this country and folks like you who are clamoring to return to the classism of the Gilded Age. We can and should do better. And "Loan forgiveness" is discharging interest debt that was never borrowed, it was created and assessed after the fact, it was never taken from anyone because it was never given out only added to take more from the people to fill the government's coffers with the wages of the Middle Class. That you guys just don't want to accept this basic fact shows that you don't really care about being paid back, you only care about making it hard on people you don't like for political jollies.
I'm so mad that my neighbor only gave me back $26,000 on that $10,000 loan I gave him and not $38,000. Such bull [BLEEP] from the right on this one, You guys should do better.
You are suggesting that this loan forgiveness is the recipients are still paying back their loans but at a much more reasonable interest rate. To the best of my knowledge that is not what Biden offered but total forgiveness. Correct me if I am wrong.
(08-09-2024, 11:44 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2024, 04:54 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]What I want to know is what is being done for the students that scrimped and lived close to the edge to pay their loans off? People beat the drum about fairness, equity etc. I see they don't really mean it a lot of the time or is only for certain people.
^^ This.
Also, what about the person that chose to live at home and go to UNF at the State Tuition Annual Rate of $6,000 rather then go to University of Georgia and pay the $30,000 annual out of state Tuition + Room & Board fees. Student A pays off his $24,000 College costs and Student B racks up ~ $160,000 in College costs and has the Gov bail him/her out.
IF I had to pass this bill, I would cap it at 50% of the State University Tuition rate. In this case, the forgiveness would be capped at $12,000 in the State of Florida.
It must be really cold in hell right now because I somewhat agree with HURRICANE!!! I never went to college by my 3 other siblings all did. My older brother and sister worked/saved while they were in school as well as got some grants/scholarships to help them out. I suppose it also helped that we lived in the same city as the university so they were able to stay at home and save on board/food costs. Both of them were able to earn Masters degrees.
Ironically, my only "formal education" came from my time in the Navy. After I got out of the Navy and went to work in civilian life, I actually was earning more than either of them.
My other sister's situation is kind of unique. She was a bit older and had a very well paying job and was doing well financially. After a life-changing medical issue she chose to quit her job and go to school to become a nurse. She pretty much paid for school on her own. She advanced very quickly and for a short period of time was the lead nurse (supervisor) at Shands Hospital in Jacksonville.
I am curious though and too lazy to look it up. What kind of interest rate/terms is a typical student loan?
(08-09-2024, 12:40 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2024, 09:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]"Whether you can afford it or not" should not be what prevents you from going to college. Tying a poor or even middle class person into decades of debt to be able to go to college is a stain on this country and folks like you who are clamoring to return to the classism of the Gilded Age. We can and should do better. And "Loan forgiveness" is discharging interest debt that was never borrowed, it was created and assessed after the fact, it was never taken from anyone because it was never given out only added to take more from the people to fill the government's coffers with the wages of the Middle Class. That you guys just don't want to accept this basic fact shows that you don't really care about being paid back, you only care about making it hard on people you don't like for political jollies.
I'm so mad that my neighbor only gave me back $26,000 on that $10,000 loan I gave him and not $38,000. Such bull [BLEEP] from the right on this one, You guys should do better.
You are suggesting that this loan forgiveness is the recipients are still paying back their loans but at a much more reasonable interest rate. To the best of my knowledge that is not what Biden offered but total forgiveness. Correct me if I am wrong.
The original plan was something like everyone under $125,000 a year got up to $12,000 in forgiveness. It's evolved into all kinds of stuff since then, but that was the plan that caused the Republicans to hit their fainting couches.
Compromise would be to drop interest rate to 0% for let's say, 20 years. Everybody wins.
That doesn't win votes though so it would be never happen.
(08-09-2024, 02:28 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2024, 11:44 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]^^ This.
Also, what about the person that chose to live at home and go to UNF at the State Tuition Annual Rate of $6,000 rather then go to University of Georgia and pay the $30,000 annual out of state Tuition + Room & Board fees. Student A pays off his $24,000 College costs and Student B racks up ~ $160,000 in College costs and has the Gov bail him/her out.
IF I had to pass this bill, I would cap it at 50% of the State University Tuition rate. In this case, the forgiveness would be capped at $12,000 in the State of Florida.
It must be really cold in hell right now because I somewhat agree with HURRICANE!!! I never went to college by my 3 other siblings all did. My older brother and sister worked/saved while they were in school as well as got some grants/scholarships to help them out. I suppose it also helped that we lived in the same city as the university so they were able to stay at home and save on board/food costs. Both of them were able to earn Masters degrees.
Ironically, my only "formal education" came from my time in the Navy. After I got out of the Navy and went to work in civilian life, I actually was earning more than either of them.
My other sister's situation is kind of unique. She was a bit older and had a very well paying job and was doing well financially. After a life-changing medical issue she chose to quit her job and go to school to become a nurse. She pretty much paid for school on her own. She advanced very quickly and for a short period of time was the lead nurse (supervisor) at Shands Hospital in Jacksonville.
I am curious though and too lazy to look it up. What kind of interest rate/terms is a typical student loan?
Government loans are currently 5.5% for undergrad, 7.05% for graduate loans, and 8.05% for PLUS which are parent co-signed loans. These are on the level 10 year plan, but there's all kinds of consolidation that has to happen once repayment starts. MyThen own student loans from 15 years ago were awarded by school year, so I ended up with 6 loans at graduation. they put you on 20 to 30 year terms which most people take for the lower monthly payments. My wife's loans from the late 1990s were at 3.75%.
(08-09-2024, 03:43 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Compromise would be to drop interest rate to 0% for let's say, 20 years. Everybody wins.
That doesn't win votes though so it would be never happen.
And that's the crux of it, once it becomes political it's only about beating the other side, not about what's best for the country.
(08-09-2024, 02:28 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2024, 11:44 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]^^ This.
Also, what about the person that chose to live at home and go to UNF at the State Tuition Annual Rate of $6,000 rather then go to University of Georgia and pay the $30,000 annual out of state Tuition + Room & Board fees. Student A pays off his $24,000 College costs and Student B racks up ~ $160,000 in College costs and has the Gov bail him/her out.
IF I had to pass this bill, I would cap it at 50% of the State University Tuition rate. In this case, the forgiveness would be capped at $12,000 in the State of Florida.
It must be really cold in hell right now because I somewhat agree with HURRICANE!!!
Yeah, I may have a new friend. I'll save you one of my Taylor Swift Friendship Bracelets. HA !!
(08-09-2024, 03:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2024, 12:40 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]You are suggesting that this loan forgiveness is the recipients are still paying back their loans but at a much more reasonable interest rate. To the best of my knowledge that is not what Biden offered but total forgiveness. Correct me if I am wrong.
The original plan was something like everyone under $125,000 a year got up to $12,000 in forgiveness. It's evolved into all kinds of stuff since then, but that was the plan that caused the Republicans to hit their fainting couches.
Not trying to be obtuse but are you saying the initial loan forgiveness was 12k off of a 125k loan? Because my understanding was it was total forgiveness.
(08-09-2024, 04:09 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2024, 03:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The original plan was something like everyone under $125,000 a year got up to $12,000 in forgiveness. It's evolved into all kinds of stuff since then, but that was the plan that caused the Republicans to hit their fainting couches.
Not trying to be obtuse but are you saying the initial loan forgiveness was 12k off of a 125k loan? Because my understanding was it was total forgiveness.
I think the $125k was salary based. Meaning if you make over $125k you don't qualify.
(08-09-2024, 04:11 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2024, 04:09 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Not trying to be obtuse but are you saying the initial loan forgiveness was 12k off of a 125k loan? Because my understanding was it was total forgiveness.
I think the $125k was salary based. Meaning if you make over $125k you don't qualify.
If that is the case (and honestly I have not followed this issue at all except to shake my head every time Biden mentions it) that is wrong. You are rewarding people more for selecting degrees that do not pay for the level of education received. Mike Rowe has the gist of this in that there needs to be more focus on trades that pay for themselves and less on a college degrees that produce pseudo intellectuals that offer no real benefit to society.
I would on board with interest forgiveness 100% but anyone getting a worthless degree just because can go pound sand.
(08-09-2024, 03:49 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2024, 02:28 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It must be really cold in hell right now because I somewhat agree with HURRICANE!!! I never went to college by my 3 other siblings all did. My older brother and sister worked/saved while they were in school as well as got some grants/scholarships to help them out. I suppose it also helped that we lived in the same city as the university so they were able to stay at home and save on board/food costs. Both of them were able to earn Masters degrees.
Ironically, my only "formal education" came from my time in the Navy. After I got out of the Navy and went to work in civilian life, I actually was earning more than either of them.
My other sister's situation is kind of unique. She was a bit older and had a very well paying job and was doing well financially. After a life-changing medical issue she chose to quit her job and go to school to become a nurse. She pretty much paid for school on her own. She advanced very quickly and for a short period of time was the lead nurse (supervisor) at Shands Hospital in Jacksonville.
I am curious though and too lazy to look it up. What kind of interest rate/terms is a typical student loan?
Government loans are currently 5.5% for undergrad, 7.05% for graduate loans, and 8.05% for PLUS which are parent co-signed loans. These are on the level 10 year plan, but there's all kinds of consolidation that has to happen once repayment starts. MyThen own student loans from 15 years ago were awarded by school year, so I ended up with 6 loans at graduation. they put you on 20 to 30 year terms which most people take for the lower monthly payments. My wife's loans from the late 1990s were at 3.75%.
Hmm... 5.5% or even 7.05% seems pretty reasonable to me, especially since the applicant likely has no real income. I would think that even at a 10 year term the payment(s) would be pretty reasonable. I don't understand the 8.05% rate if the parents co-sign a loan (assuming the parents have good credit). I would think that the rate would actually be lower.
Just my opinion and the way that I have always done financing/loans, I would never take a longer term just for lower payments. I do believe that by doing that you end up paying more in interest in the end.
Either way, I am of the opinion that if a person takes a loan they sign a contract. They should fulfill the terms of that contract and not depend on others to pay their debt for them.