(03-06-2023, 12:45 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 11:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If they sell shares for more than the acquisition price, then they are taxed, always.
People are falling for the myth that we don't tax rich people, but it is a fact that rich people pay way more than most of the income taxes that are collected, and poorer people pay almost nothing in income taxes.
There are plenty of demagogues out there that will tell you rich people aren't paying their "fair share," but they are ignoring facts. In 2020, the top 1% of earners paid 42% of all the taxes collected. The bottom 50% of earners paid 2% of all the taxes collected.
Not when "they" is a trust. First the person transfers their shares or their options to a trust, then the trust sells them and collects the money.
If shares are transferred to a trust, and the trust sells the shares and keeps the money, there is no person who received any money, therefore, why would anyone pay personal income tax on that?
Besides, if the trust sells the shares, the trust will owe the tax anyway.
(03-06-2023, 03:30 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1...0Qkow&s=19
Jesus H. Christ those people need to be kept in jail. What a bunch of idiots.
Defend the Atlanta Forest sent a statement Sunday night that said in part.
“Cop City will never be a legitimate project. It continues to be widely opposed by Atlantans. The civil rights violations committed by police today reaffirms that this cop training facility should never be built. We stand steadfast in our conviction to build a new world in which all people are safe from police terror.”
(03-06-2023, 06:58 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 03:17 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Mikey ain't wrong about this. There is a true income disparity in the US that is widening and needs to be fixed.
I disagree. I don't see any need to fix it. I think if a person invents a product or service that we all like and want, and he sells enough of it to become a billionaire, more power to him. What he or she has done is a benefit to society. And as I have already shown, we already tax the hell out of these people.
But aside from that, if it was up to you, how would you fix it?
No fix needed. The only thing that needs 'fixing' here is the idea that making a lot of money as Marty suggests above is somehow wrong or evil. Exploiting people while on the way to doing that? Wrong. Paying a bunch of government lackeys and lawyers to keep your business productive and viable? Wrong. Adding real value to a society thru a product or service and making a bunch of money doing it without exploiting workers or raping the environment? Right.
(03-06-2023, 11:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 08:45 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]That's kind of a fairytale. You might have people like Jobs or Gates in mind as you say this. I agree it's good for those people to get huge rewards for their accomplishments. Theres nothing wrong with the existence of billionaires per se. But we don't necessarily tax the hell out of them. They can acquire money by growing their business and selling shares of it afterwards, but, they are not always taxed on that. Often it goes to a trust. It's a convoluted issue, especially for the extreme cases at the very top, and the large corporations.
If they sell shares for more than the acquisition price, then they are taxed, always.
People are falling for the myth that we don't tax rich people, but it is a fact that rich people pay way more than most of the income taxes that are collected, and poorer people pay almost nothing in income taxes.
There are plenty of demagogues out there that will tell you rich people aren't paying their "fair share," but they are ignoring facts. In 2020, the top 1% of earners paid 42% of all the taxes collected. The bottom 50% of earners paid 2% of all the taxes collected.
The most equitable tax is a flat rate tax. Abolish tax loopholes for people and businesses and government. Determine a reasonable low rate (10-15%) and then live within it. Scale back the IRS; we shouldn't be needing as many audits or corporate tax lawyers.
(03-06-2023, 03:53 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 06:58 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree. I don't see any need to fix it. I think if a person invents a product or service that we all like and want, and he sells enough of it to become a billionaire, more power to him. What he or she has done is a benefit to society. And as I have already shown, we already tax the hell out of these people.
But aside from that, if it was up to you, how would you fix it?
No fix needed. The only thing that needs 'fixing' here is the idea that making a lot of money as Marty suggests above is somehow wrong or evil. Exploiting people while on the way to doing that? Wrong. Paying a bunch of government lackeys and lawyers to keep your business productive and viable? Wrong. Adding real value to a society thru a product or service and making a bunch of money doing it without exploiting workers or raping the environment? Right.
(03-06-2023, 11:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If they sell shares for more than the acquisition price, then they are taxed, always.
People are falling for the myth that we don't tax rich people, but it is a fact that rich people pay way more than most of the income taxes that are collected, and poorer people pay almost nothing in income taxes.
There are plenty of demagogues out there that will tell you rich people aren't paying their "fair share," but they are ignoring facts. In 2020, the top 1% of earners paid 42% of all the taxes collected. The bottom 50% of earners paid 2% of all the taxes collected.
The most equitable tax is a flat rate tax. Abolish tax loopholes for people and businesses and government. Determine a reasonable low rate (10-15%) and then live within it. Scale back the IRS; we shouldn't be needing as many audits or corporate tax lawyers.
I think the problem with any income tax is that people argue about what is income. Is it gross income or net income? What expenses are we allowed to deduct from gross income to reach taxable income? and on and on and on. It's the same problem we have with the tax code now- thousands of pages of tax code are all about defining what is "income."
I think the most equitable tax would be a consumption tax.
(03-06-2023, 04:08 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 03:53 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]No fix needed. The only thing that needs 'fixing' here is the idea that making a lot of money as Marty suggests above is somehow wrong or evil. Exploiting people while on the way to doing that? Wrong. Paying a bunch of government lackeys and lawyers to keep your business productive and viable? Wrong. Adding real value to a society thru a product or service and making a bunch of money doing it without exploiting workers or raping the environment? Right.
The most equitable tax is a flat rate tax. Abolish tax loopholes for people and businesses and government. Determine a reasonable low rate (10-15%) and then live within it. Scale back the IRS; we shouldn't be needing as many audits or corporate tax lawyers.
I think the problem with any income tax is that people argue about what is income. Is it gross income or net income? What expenses are we allowed to deduct from gross income to reach taxable income? and on and on and on. It's the same problem we have with the tax code now- thousands of pages of tax code are all about defining what is "income."
I think the most equitable tax would be a consumption tax.
You are right. And I should know this from my career with an electric utility. Even tho they do manage to slip some 'fees, surcharges, etc' that are not linked to consumption in to bolster revenue. Makes you wonder tho how far the government would go to find consumables to tax you on.
(03-06-2023, 04:17 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 04:08 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think the problem with any income tax is that people argue about what is income. Is it gross income or net income? What expenses are we allowed to deduct from gross income to reach taxable income? and on and on and on. It's the same problem we have with the tax code now- thousands of pages of tax code are all about defining what is "income."
I think the most equitable tax would be a consumption tax.
You are right. And I should know this from my career with an electric utility. Even tho they do manage to slip some 'fees, surcharges, etc' that are not linked to consumption in to bolster revenue. Makes you wonder tho how far the government would go to find consumables to tax you on.
Have either of you read The Fair Tax Book by Neal Boortz? He explains how a consumption-like tax can work.
(03-06-2023, 03:24 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 01:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Right, there first has to be an owner for there to then be a theft. Who says you own anything?
Good God. Get the hell out of here, Obama.
You've misunderstood the question. You and I both own certain things. I'm not denying that. But I don't own things just because I say so, not even because you say so. I own them because government and society say so.
(03-06-2023, 04:34 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 03:24 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]Good God. Get the hell out of here, Obama.
You've misunderstood the question. You and I both own certain things. I'm not denying that. But I don't own things just because I say so, not even because you say so. I own them because government and society say so.
Agreed. I did misunderstand the question.
It's funny... I hate it when progressives use "racism" as the tool to demagogue those who "uphold the system of oppression," because that's a lie. However, there does need to be a name for it, because something like that exists, and it's prevalent in these comments.
The "capitalists" won. They have leveraged their vast wealth and use it against us to further entrench their power and wealth. They buy our politicians, universities, our science, our healthcare, and our journalists. I don't think our system of government is bad. I just think that even if we were to completely reset it, we'd end up back in this same exact situation in less than a century, because it's a system that's exploitable.
(03-06-2023, 07:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny... I hate it when progressives use "racism" as the tool to demagogue those who "uphold the system of oppression," because that's a lie. However, there does need to be a name for it, because something like that exists, and it's prevalent in these comments.
The "capitalists" won. They have leveraged their vast wealth and use it against us to further entrench their power and wealth. They buy our politicians, universities, our science, our healthcare, and our journalists. I don't think our system of government is bad. I just think that even if we were to completely reset it, we'd end up back in this same exact situation in less than a century, because it's a system that's exploitable.
It was ever thus. There is either a king like figure whose power is limited only by the loyalty of his generals, or there is a body like a senate that represents the interests of all of the people who are wealthy enough to potentially fund an army if society really goes sideways. Or there is both and a sort of interplay between them. You can have a revolution and kill all the oligarchs and take their stuff, but then the people you distribute that stuff to become the new senators/kings. There can be growth, but there is always some exploitation. The great compact of post industrial revolution America is that the masses are consumers, and the senatorial class maximizes their wealth by making sure the plebian class has some purchasing power, even if it's not enough to meaningfully influence government.
(03-06-2023, 03:45 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 12:45 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Not when "they" is a trust. First the person transfers their shares or their options to a trust, then the trust sells them and collects the money.
If shares are transferred to a trust, and the trust sells the shares and keeps the money, there is no person who received any money, therefore, why would anyone pay personal income tax on that?
Besides, if the trust sells the shares, the trust will owe the tax anyway.
(03-06-2023, 03:30 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1...0Qkow&s=19
Jesus H. Christ those people need to be kept in jail. What a bunch of idiots.
Defend the Atlanta Forest sent a statement Sunday night that said in part.
“Cop City will never be a legitimate project. It continues to be widely opposed by Atlantans. The civil rights violations committed by police today reaffirms that this cop training facility should never be built. We stand steadfast in our conviction to build a new world in which all people are safe from police terror.”
They were let out almost immediately. There were 1-2 foreigners that should have been charged, fined, remove visas or whatever, banned from entering again, and immediately sent out of the country. There were only 2 that were actually from Atlanta. The rest all were shipped in and are being paid to do this.
Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk
(03-06-2023, 10:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2023, 07:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny... I hate it when progressives use "racism" as the tool to demagogue those who "uphold the system of oppression," because that's a lie. However, there does need to be a name for it, because something like that exists, and it's prevalent in these comments.
The "capitalists" won. They have leveraged their vast wealth and use it against us to further entrench their power and wealth. They buy our politicians, universities, our science, our healthcare, and our journalists. I don't think our system of government is bad. I just think that even if we were to completely reset it, we'd end up back in this same exact situation in less than a century, because it's a system that's exploitable.
It was ever thus. There is either a king like figure whose power is limited only by the loyalty of his generals, or there is a body like a senate that represents the interests of all of the people who are wealthy enough to potentially fund an army if society really goes sideways. Or there is both and a sort of interplay between them. You can have a revolution and kill all the oligarchs and take their stuff, but then the people you distribute that stuff to become the new senators/kings. There can be growth, but there is always some exploitation. The great compact of post industrial revolution America is that the masses are consumers, and the senatorial class maximizes their wealth by making sure the plebian class has some purchasing power, even if it's not enough to meaningfully influence government.
Which is why we are doing it wrong. Keep the free market, but cap the earnings. Don't tax the rich, but they have to give their money to something else.
(03-07-2023, 02:35 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/16...2EJIQ&s=19
The big lie is starting to unravel..
How can you trust Tucker Carlson after the revelations in the Dominion lawsuit? Why do believe he's sincere in what he says now, when he hasn't been sincere in the past?
(03-07-2023, 08:45 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2023, 02:35 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/16...2EJIQ&s=19
The big lie is starting to unravel..
That's not news. We've seen that footage before.
Wow, now you've gone to directly lying for your Dem buddies. It's a shame how far you've fallen from "I'm a moderate Republican" to "I was really always just in the bag for the Dems."
Looks like Mikey's masters were not truthful with him.
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