(12-02-2024, 08:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Pardoning his son is a really bad thing to do, but, how does a man let his son go to prison if he can prevent it? Yes, it's a corrupt thing to do, but there are no consequences for it.
I don't like it. Biden is a liar and a hypocrite. But if I put myself in his shoes, I could do a corrupt thing too, especially if there are no consequences.
And no, I am not excusing it.
It seems like every President gets to the end of his term and does a bunch of last minute pardons for people who do not deserve to be pardoned.
No consequences for it? Maybe not for Joe personally, but what about our political system in general? It establishes a precedent, justifying whatever pardons Trump and all future Presidents may issue and the corruption in government continues to grow.
What about the trickle-down effect and the message (if you're rich and/or powerful, you're above the law) it sends out to the average citizen or illegal migrant?
(12-02-2024, 09:44 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 08:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Pardoning his son is a really bad thing to do, but, how does a man let his son go to prison if he can prevent it? Yes, it's a corrupt thing to do, but there are no consequences for it.
I don't like it. Biden is a liar and a hypocrite. But if I put myself in his shoes, I could do a corrupt thing too, especially if there are no consequences.
And no, I am not excusing it.
It seems like every President gets to the end of his term and does a bunch of last minute pardons for people who do not deserve to be pardoned.
No consequences for it? Maybe not for Joe personally, but what about our political system in general? It establishes a precedent, justifying whatever pardons Trump and all future Presidents may issue and the corruption in government continues to grow.
What about the trickle-down effect and the message (if you're rich and/or powerful, you're above the law) it sends out to the average citizen or illegal migrant?
It doesn't establish a precedent, because Presidents issuing corrupt pardons has been going on for a long time. Usually for, or at the request of, a big campaign contributor.
This is bad, but it's not new. Trump pardoned many friends and supporters at the end of his first term. Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner's father, and on and on. Elliot Broider, a leading Trump fund-raiser. These were convicted criminals. Other Presidents have done the same.
(12-02-2024, 09:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 09:44 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]No consequences for it? Maybe not for Joe personally, but what about our political system in general? It establishes a precedent, justifying whatever pardons Trump and all future Presidents may issue and the corruption in government continues to grow.
What about the trickle-down effect and the message (if you're rich and/or powerful, you're above the law) it sends out to the average citizen or illegal migrant?
It doesn't establish a precedent, because Presidents issuing corrupt pardons has been going on for a long time. Usually for, or at the request of, a big campaign contributor.
This is bad, but it's not new.
So who's the real threat to democracy, Marty?
(12-02-2024, 09:53 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 09:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't establish a precedent, because Presidents issuing corrupt pardons has been going on for a long time. Usually for, or at the request of, a big campaign contributor.
This is bad, but it's not new.
So who's the real threat to democracy, Marty?
Maybe you can elaborate on that question a bit. I have never said anyone is a threat to democracy.
(12-02-2024, 09:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 09:53 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]So who's the real threat to democracy, Marty?
Maybe you can elaborate on that question a bit. I have never said anyone is a threat to democracy.
Your ilk has been calling Trump a threat to democracy.. How does that make you feel hearing that, knowing what you know now?
Or is your TDS so strong that you just don't give a [BLEEP]?
(12-02-2024, 09:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 09:44 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]No consequences for it? Maybe not for Joe personally, but what about our political system in general? It establishes a precedent, justifying whatever pardons Trump and all future Presidents may issue and the corruption in government continues to grow.
What about the trickle-down effect and the message (if you're rich and/or powerful, you're above the law) it sends out to the average citizen or illegal migrant?
It doesn't establish a precedent, because Presidents issuing corrupt pardons has been going on for a long time. Usually for, or at the request of, a big campaign contributor.
This is bad, but it's not new. Trump pardoned many friends and supporters at the end of his first term. Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner's father, and on and on. Elliot Broider, a leading Trump fund-raiser. These were convicted criminals. Other Presidents have done the same.
A family member is a new level. I assume you would be okay with Trump pardoning himself?
Biden.. Crime.. Family..
https://twitter.com/berniemoreno/status/...vejnA&s=19
First, they told us the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian misinformation, with 51 “intelligence experts” prostituting their reputations to protect him. Then they tried to give Hunter a sweetheart deal to avoid convicting him for his obvious corruption.
And now, after promising he would never do it, “the big guy” issues the broadest pardon in American history for his son Hunter.
What makes this even worse? Joe Biden oversaw a Department of Justice that quite literally made harassing and imprisoning President Trump and his allies their top priority over the past four years- And now he's the one complaining about the politicization of the Justice System?
(12-02-2024, 09:57 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 09:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe you can elaborate on that question a bit. I have never said anyone is a threat to democracy.
Your ilk has been calling Trump a threat to democracy.. How does that make you feel hearing that, knowing what you know now?
Or is your TDS so strong that you just don't give a [BLEEP]?
My ilk? lol. Who would be my ilk?
(12-02-2024, 10:04 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 09:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't establish a precedent, because Presidents issuing corrupt pardons has been going on for a long time. Usually for, or at the request of, a big campaign contributor.
This is bad, but it's not new. Trump pardoned many friends and supporters at the end of his first term. Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner's father, and on and on. Elliot Broider, a leading Trump fund-raiser. These were convicted criminals. Other Presidents have done the same.
A family member is a new level. I assume you would be okay with Trump pardoning himself?
Lol. Clinton pardoned his brother. So did Carter.
And since when is a father in law not a family member?
Read!
Look things up!
(12-02-2024, 10:05 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Biden.. Crime.. Family..
https://x.com/berniemoreno/status/186356...vejnA&s=19
First, they told us the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian misinformation, with 51 “intelligence experts” prostituting their reputations to protect him. Then they tried to give Hunter a sweetheart deal to avoid convicting him for his obvious corruption.
And now, after promising he would never do it, “the big guy” issues the broadest pardon in American history for his son Hunter.
What makes this even worse? Joe Biden oversaw a Department of Justice that quite literally made harassing and imprisoning President Trump and his allies their top priority over the past four years- And now he's the one complaining about the politicization of the Justice System?
If it wasn't for double standards...
(12-02-2024, 10:04 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 09:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't establish a precedent, because Presidents issuing corrupt pardons has been going on for a long time. Usually for, or at the request of, a big campaign contributor.
This is bad, but it's not new. Trump pardoned many friends and supporters at the end of his first term. Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner's father, and on and on. Elliot Broider, a leading Trump fund-raiser. These were convicted criminals. Other Presidents have done the same.
A family member is a new level. I assume you would be okay with Trump pardoning himself?
No, dammit, if you will actually read what I wrote, I am not okay with any of this.
(12-02-2024, 10:18 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 10:04 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]A family member is a new level. I assume you would be okay with Trump pardoning himself?
No, dammit, if you will actually read what I wrote, I am not okay with any of this.
The problem is that you have routinely backed and defended the party that is infact doing this. You are guilty based solely on your support.
(12-02-2024, 10:16 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 09:57 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Your ilk has been calling Trump a threat to democracy.. How does that make you feel hearing that, knowing what you know now?
Or is your TDS so strong that you just don't give a [BLEEP]?
My ilk? lol. Who would be my ilk?
All those pieces of [BLEEP] out there just like you..
(12-02-2024, 10:20 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 10:16 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]My ilk? lol. Who would be my ilk?
All those pieces of [BLEEP] out there just like you..
You throw around insults awfully freely.
(12-02-2024, 10:28 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 10:20 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]All those pieces of [BLEEP] out there just like you..
You throw around insults awfully freely.
I call it like I see it.. And I don't care about feelings or offending.. You know me better by now.
(12-02-2024, 10:34 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 10:28 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You throw around insults awfully freely.
I call it like I see it.. And I don't care about feelings or offending.. You know me better by now.
It doesn't hurt my feelings. It just makes you seem kind of weird.
(12-02-2024, 10:41 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 10:34 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]I call it like I see it.. And I don't care about feelings or offending.. You know me better by now.
It doesn't hurt my feelings. It just makes you seem kind of weird.
Nothing wrong with weird.. We're all weird.
(12-02-2024, 08:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Pardoning his son is a really bad thing to do, but, how does a man let his son go to prison if he can prevent it? Yes, it's a corrupt thing to do, but there are no consequences for it.
I don't like it. Biden is a liar and a hypocrite. But if I put myself in his shoes, I could do a corrupt thing too, especially if there are no consequences.
And no, I am not excusing it.
It seems like every President gets to the end of his term and does a bunch of last minute pardons for people who do not deserve to be pardoned.
Seriously? Because it's the right thing to do. What does the kid learn if he/she doesn't suffer the consequences of his/her actions? Not a damn thing except they can get away with it again. Hunter is a train wreck for a reason and it's because he's never had to pay any price for his stupidity.
If I were a parent I would not circumvent justice if my child was guilty of a crime. They commit the crime, they pay the price.
I've never understood the whole Presidential pardon thing and don't agree with it, especially if they're allowed to pardon members of their own families. That should absolutely
not be allowed due to obvious conflict of interest.
Between the failure of Harris's campaign bid and this pardon, the Democrats are imploding. I guess they're adopting the 'Go Hard or Go Home' saying except they're going hard before they go home.
(12-02-2024, 11:00 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 08:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Pardoning his son is a really bad thing to do, but, how does a man let his son go to prison if he can prevent it? Yes, it's a corrupt thing to do, but there are no consequences for it.
I don't like it. Biden is a liar and a hypocrite. But if I put myself in his shoes, I could do a corrupt thing too, especially if there are no consequences.
And no, I am not excusing it.
It seems like every President gets to the end of his term and does a bunch of last minute pardons for people who do not deserve to be pardoned.
Seriously? Because it's the right thing to do. What does the kid learn if he/she doesn't suffer the consequences of his/her actions? Not a damn thing except they can get away with it again. Hunter is a train wreck for a reason and it's because he's never had to pay any price for his stupidity.
If I were a parent I would not circumvent justice if my child was guilty of a crime. They commit the crime, they pay the price.
I've never understood the whole Presidential pardon thing and don't agree with it, especially if they're allowed to pardon members of their own families. That should absolutely not be allowed due to obvious conflict of interest.
Between the failure of Harris's campaign bid and this pardon, the Democrats are imploding. I guess they're adopting the 'Go Hard or Go Home' saying except they're going hard before they go home.
Were you upset when Trump pardoned his father in law?
(12-02-2024, 11:21 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2024, 11:00 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously? Because it's the right thing to do. What does the kid learn if he/she doesn't suffer the consequences of his/her actions? Not a damn thing except they can get away with it again. Hunter is a train wreck for a reason and it's because he's never had to pay any price for his stupidity.
If I were a parent I would not circumvent justice if my child was guilty of a crime. They commit the crime, they pay the price.
I've never understood the whole Presidential pardon thing and don't agree with it, especially if they're allowed to pardon members of their own families. That should absolutely not be allowed due to obvious conflict of interest.
Between the failure of Harris's campaign bid and this pardon, the Democrats are imploding. I guess they're adopting the 'Go Hard or Go Home' saying except they're going hard before they go home.
Were you upset when Trump pardoned his father in law?
Are you referring to Charles Kushner, the father of his SIL, Jared Kushner?