(09-29-2022, 09:29 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]“95% of my social world defines as Democrat.
Family, friends, colleagues, people I meet socially - virtually all Dems.
Recently I've been wondering - if I believe partisanship is one of our biggest issues, would it be "righteous" to switch sides to play devil's advocate?”
More -
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/15751...84864.html
Mikesez wrote a really self-aware article there. He just didn't admit that he's been playing DA for several years already.
(09-30-2022, 12:20 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Mike, did you read the article?
Yes. It was pretty good. Did you?
(09-30-2022, 08:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-29-2022, 09:29 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]“95% of my social world defines as Democrat.
Family, friends, colleagues, people I meet socially - virtually all Dems.
Recently I've been wondering - if I believe partisanship is one of our biggest issues, would it be "righteous" to switch sides to play devil's advocate?”
More -
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/15751...84864.html
Mikesez wrote a really self-aware article there. He just didn't admit that he's been playing DA for several years already.
I don't see liberal opinions as the devil. I sometimes agree with them, but often don't agree. You're the ones who see them as devilish. The term "devil's advocate" can imply that a person is being insincere. I'm usually sincere.
I'm just trying to talk you off the ledge so you simply say, "that liberal's opinion is incorrect and will hurt our economy," instead of, "that liberal's opinion will take your job, rape your wife, and teach your children to hate you."
I just want a world with less hyperbole and less hate.
(09-30-2022, 09:15 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 08:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Mikesez wrote a really self-aware article there. He just didn't admit that he's been playing DA for several years already.
I don't see liberal opinions as the devil. I sometimes agree with them, but often don't agree. You're the ones who see them as devilish. The term "devil's advocate" can imply that a person is being insincere. I'm usually sincere.
I'm just trying to talk you off the ledge so you simply say, "that liberal's opinion is incorrect and will hurt our economy," instead of, "that liberal's opinion will take your job, rape your wife, and teach your children to hate you."
I just want a world with less hyperbole and less hate.
It's weird that you still try to coopt the term "liberal" when we're all talking about Leftists. I can get along with Kennedy Democrats (especially since that's basically today's GOP), but I cannot get along with those that are beyond them on the left side of scale because they are out there supporting or enabling those things you said there. Just because you are unwilling to speak the truth about them doesn't mean everyone else has to play your game. If you're being sincere then you are perhaps to most gullible person on Earth, and I really don't think you are.
(09-30-2022, 09:15 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 08:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Mikesez wrote a really self-aware article there. He just didn't admit that he's been playing DA for several years already.
I don't see liberal opinions as the devil. I sometimes agree with them, but often don't agree. You're the ones who see them as devilish. The term "devil's advocate" can imply that a person is being insincere. I'm usually sincere.
I'm just trying to talk you off the ledge so you simply say, "that liberal's opinion is incorrect and will hurt our economy," instead of, "that liberal's opinion will take your job, rape your wife, and teach your children to hate you."
I just want a world with less hyperbole and less hate.
There is a difference between liberals/Democrats and leftists. My FIL is liberal but he's also 75 years old and those old school liberals are not even the same as those in their 40s and younger.
Leftists are the crazy people who follow AOC and her "squad" of nutcases, Buttigieg, that crazy mayor in Chicago, etc., who are determined to ruin this country. There is absolutely nothing they say or believe that is helpful to this country and it's people.
For the first time in his life my FIL has no idea who he will vote for. He's finally realized the leftists have hijacked the Democratic party and he will have no part of advancing their idiocy. A lot of Republicans feel the same about the far right Trump humpers who have hijacked their party.
As a Libertarian I never have someone to vote for who can actually win and do something. If DeSantis ever runs for higher office he will likely have my vote, otherwise I'm not sure who will get it.
(09-30-2022, 10:35 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 09:15 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see liberal opinions as the devil. I sometimes agree with them, but often don't agree. You're the ones who see them as devilish. The term "devil's advocate" can imply that a person is being insincere. I'm usually sincere.
I'm just trying to talk you off the ledge so you simply say, "that liberal's opinion is incorrect and will hurt our economy," instead of, "that liberal's opinion will take your job, rape your wife, and teach your children to hate you."
I just want a world with less hyperbole and less hate.
There is a difference between liberals/Democrats and leftists. My FIL is liberal but he's also 75 years old and those old school liberals are not even the same as those in their 40s and younger.
Leftists are the crazy people who follow AOC and her "squad" of nutcases, Buttigieg, that crazy mayor in Chicago, etc., who are determined to ruin this country. There is absolutely nothing they say or believe that is helpful to this country and it's people.
For the first time in his life my FIL has no idea who he will vote for. He's finally realized the leftists have hijacked the Democratic party and he will have no part of advancing their idiocy. A lot of Republicans feel the same about the far right Trump humpers who have hijacked their party.
As a Libertarian I never have someone to vote for who can actually win and do something. If DeSantis ever runs for higher office he will likely have my vote, otherwise I'm not sure who will get it.
I hear you loud and clear. You have never been one of the people I worry about around these parts. I know your opinions aren't extreme and I know you prefer getting along to violence.
(09-29-2022, 11:49 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-29-2022, 11:12 AM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ]The WH Press Secretary's answers to the question after were painful to watch. Woof, what a mess.
Jean-Pierre is a race baiting one trick pony, but even I feel sorry for her having to clean up after Mr. Poopypants.
Box checker.
(09-30-2022, 10:01 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Study finds that climate change added 10% to Ian's rainfall | AP News
Climate change added at least 10% more rain to Hurricane Ian, a study prepared immediately after the storm shows.
Thursday’s research, which is not peer-reviewed, compared peak rainfall rates during the real storm to about 20 different computer scenarios of a model with Hurricane Ian’s characteristics slamming into the Sunshine State in a world with no human-caused climate change...
And yet overall, this is one of the quietest hurricane seasons on record. Grasping at straws here.
(09-30-2022, 11:47 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 10:35 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]There is a difference between liberals/Democrats and leftists. My FIL is liberal but he's also 75 years old and those old school liberals are not even the same as those in their 40s and younger.
Leftists are the crazy people who follow AOC and her "squad" of nutcases, Buttigieg, that crazy mayor in Chicago, etc., who are determined to ruin this country. There is absolutely nothing they say or believe that is helpful to this country and it's people.
For the first time in his life my FIL has no idea who he will vote for. He's finally realized the leftists have hijacked the Democratic party and he will have no part of advancing their idiocy. A lot of Republicans feel the same about the far right Trump humpers who have hijacked their party.
As a Libertarian I never have someone to vote for who can actually win and do something. If DeSantis ever runs for higher office he will likely have my vote, otherwise I'm not sure who will get it.
I hear you loud and clear. You have never been one of the people I worry about around these parts. I know your opinions aren't extreme and I know you prefer getting along to violence.
Stop. We all would prefer getting along to violence. But getting along cannot be the same as surrender either; it can be compromise, but after decades of compromise by the Right it's clear that the leftists only care about complete surrender.
(09-30-2022, 11:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 11:47 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I hear you loud and clear. You have never been one of the people I worry about around these parts. I know your opinions aren't extreme and I know you prefer getting along to violence.
Stop. We all would prefer getting along to violence. But getting along cannot be the same as surrender either; it can be compromise, but after decades of compromise by the Right it's clear that the leftists only care about complete surrender.
Yes. It can be compromise. But a compromise from 5 or 10 years ago shouldn't make us feel bitter when discussing compromises today, because the context is always changing. We have new information and new people in office.
(09-30-2022, 12:22 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 11:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Stop. We all would prefer getting along to violence. But getting along cannot be the same as surrender either; it can be compromise, but after decades of compromise by the Right it's clear that the leftists only care about complete surrender.
Yes. It can be compromise. But a compromise from 5 or 10 years ago shouldn't make us feel bitter when discussing compromises today, because the context is always changing. We have new information and new people in office.
The hell it shouldn't, when you lose ground in a war you don't just forget about it, you try to reclaim it. The only changing of the context is how the middle has shifted left over and over again. Regardless of who is in office today the steps that got us here aren't just magically going to be undone because they weren't compromise, they were concession. Now we're at the point where a significant portion of the Right in not willing to concede anymore, because they've gained very little by doing so, but their Establishment leadership doesn't care as long as they get to keep their cushy role as the concerned minority opposition. Never accountable for winning, only for slowing the losses. This can't end well.
(09-30-2022, 01:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 12:22 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. It can be compromise. But a compromise from 5 or 10 years ago shouldn't make us feel bitter when discussing compromises today, because the context is always changing. We have new information and new people in office.
The hell it shouldn't, when you lose ground in a war you don't just forget about it, you try to reclaim it. The only changing of the context is how the middle has shifted left over and over again. Regardless of who is in office today the steps that got us here aren't just magically going to be undone because they weren't compromise, they were concession. Now we're at the point where a significant portion of the Right in not willing to concede anymore, because they've gained very little by doing so, but their Establishment leadership doesn't care as long as they get to keep their cushy role as the concerned minority opposition. Never accountable for winning, only for slowing the losses. This can't end well.
This isn't war. That's my whole point. Even in war it can be honorable to permanently cede ground to the enemy. As Mexico did for us. As Germany did for Poland. But again, this isn't war, and it's very dangerous for anyone to think of it as war.
Again, back to my father and my FIL. They both percieve their side as the only one that is compromising. "Why does my side have to keep compromising?!" they say.
(09-30-2022, 02:24 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMfIkz7v6s&t=140s
I agree, it's sad how irresponsible the media in the US is.
I remember trying to talk to people in other forums about 2016.
"Yes, Russians broke our law and spent money to influence American voters. They even hacked into voter rolls to help their effort. But they were not able to change the voter rolls, and they were not able to change votes."
No one wanted to hear it. The Republicans didn't want to hear that the Russians had helped their orange messiah, and the Democrats didn't want to hear that they lost because real American voters chose for them to lose, even if there was illegal influence there, it was still a free choice by the voters.
(09-30-2022, 02:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 02:24 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMfIkz7v6s&t=140s
I agree, it's sad how irresponsible the media in the US is.
I remember trying to talk to people in other forums about 2016.
"Yes, Russians broke our law and spent money to influence American voters. They even hacked into voter rolls to help their effort. But they were not able to change the voter rolls, and they were not able to change votes."
No one wanted to hear it. The Republicans didn't want to hear that the Russians had helped their orange messiah, and the Democrats didn't want to hear that they lost because real American voters chose for them to lose, even if there was illegal influence there, it was still a free choice by the voters.
You almost always try and twist things (reality) into a positive for the left. It’s hilarious that you pretend to be a “moderate”
lol, dude.
(09-30-2022, 02:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 02:24 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMfIkz7v6s&t=140s
I agree, it's sad how irresponsible the media in the US is.
I remember trying to talk to people in other forums about 2016.
"Yes, Russians broke our law and spent money to influence American voters. They even hacked into voter rolls to help their effort. But they were not able to change the voter rolls, and they were not able to change votes."
No one wanted to hear it. The Republicans didn't want to hear that the Russians had helped their orange messiah, and the Democrats didn't want to hear that they lost because real American voters chose for them to lose, even if there was illegal influence there, it was still a free choice by the voters.
You should probably ask why did they all of a sudden say there was cheating? It's because they thought they had cheated enough already to make it impossible to lose.
Both parties know the elections aren't safe but they both benefit so they don't care.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
(09-30-2022, 01:24 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 01:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The hell it shouldn't, when you lose ground in a war you don't just forget about it, you try to reclaim it. The only changing of the context is how the middle has shifted left over and over again. Regardless of who is in office today the steps that got us here aren't just magically going to be undone because they weren't compromise, they were concession. Now we're at the point where a significant portion of the Right in not willing to concede anymore, because they've gained very little by doing so, but their Establishment leadership doesn't care as long as they get to keep their cushy role as the concerned minority opposition. Never accountable for winning, only for slowing the losses. This can't end well.
This isn't war. That's my whole point. Even in war it can be honorable to permanently cede ground to the enemy. As Mexico did for us. As Germany did for Poland. But again, this isn't war, and it's very dangerous for anyone to think of it as war.
Again, back to my father and my FIL. They both percieve their side as the only one that is compromising. "Why does my side have to keep compromising?!" they say.
As I said, you pretend to be gullable but you damn well aren't.
(10-01-2022, 07:20 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 02:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I agree, it's sad how irresponsible the media in the US is.
I remember trying to talk to people in other forums about 2016.
"Yes, Russians broke our law and spent money to influence American voters. They even hacked into voter rolls to help their effort. But they were not able to change the voter rolls, and they were not able to change votes."
No one wanted to hear it. The Republicans didn't want to hear that the Russians had helped their orange messiah, and the Democrats didn't want to hear that they lost because real American voters chose for them to lose, even if there was illegal influence there, it was still a free choice by the voters.
You almost always try and twist things (reality) into a positive for the left. It’s hilarious that you pretend to be a “moderate”
lol, dude.
I'll ask you again: have you ever met a single person, or heard a single opinion, that was too "right wing" for you?
(10-01-2022, 10:28 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2022, 01:24 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't war. That's my whole point. Even in war it can be honorable to permanently cede ground to the enemy. As Mexico did for us. As Germany did for Poland. But again, this isn't war, and it's very dangerous for anyone to think of it as war.
Again, back to my father and my FIL. They both percieve their side as the only one that is compromising. "Why does my side have to keep compromising?!" they say.
As I said, you pretend to be gullable but you damn well aren't.
What did I say that is "pretending to be gullible"?