I really don't understand where some of you are coming from on this "he declassified everything, it's all declassified" idea. Trump doesn't agree with you about that! If Trump really thought that, he wouldn't have lied to investigators about how many documents he had or which documents they were.
(06-12-2023, 09:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't understand where some of you are coming from on this "he declassified everything, it's all declassified" idea. Trump doesn't agree with you about that! If Trump really thought that, he wouldn't have lied to investigators about how many documents he had or which documents they were.
And, he wouldn't have told a friend that he didn't declassify them. They allegedly have him on tape saying that.
Had Trump cooperated with the initial requests to return these documents there would be no issue. His obstinance created this mess for himself.
(06-12-2023, 10:44 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Had Trump cooperated with the initial requests to return these documents there would be no issue. His obstinance created this mess for himself.
Exactly. It's all the unforced errors that caused him to not get much passed his first two years, caused them to lose Congress after that, then lose to Biden. He's got Muhammad Ali's mouth with Marvis Frazier's fists.
(06-12-2023, 11:30 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-12-2023, 10:44 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Had Trump cooperated with the initial requests to return these documents there would be no issue. His obstinance created this mess for himself.
Exactly. It's all the unforced errors that caused him to not get much passed his first two years, caused them to lose Congress after that, then lose to Biden. He's got Muhammad Ali's mouth with Marvis Frazier's fists.
This might be the most clever thing you've ever said. Where'd you hear that?
Unfortunately for Trump, "what about Biden" will not be allowed as a defense in this case.
(06-12-2023, 02:20 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately for Trump, "what about Biden" will not be allowed as a defense in this case.
But it certainly makes clear the reason for the persecution.
(06-12-2023, 03:49 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]The tape recording does matter. It's the fig leaf they are going to use to legitimize taking him off the ballot in certain states. MI PA WIS AZ etc. If he's convicted purplish states will move to pull his name so he can't get to 270, and they'll have a reasonable constitutional predicate to do it.
What are the odds the one in a million only way these laws are even applicable is the one scenario 45 lays out on tape? My gosh... where's Kelly Anne when u need her?
That isn't the tape, that is the national security aspect. They are charging him with the espionage act so that they can keep from servicing office. They can't keep him from office otherwise and technically he could be elected from jail.
(06-12-2023, 10:35 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (06-12-2023, 09:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't understand where some of you are coming from on this "he declassified everything, it's all declassified" idea. Trump doesn't agree with you about that! If Trump really thought that, he wouldn't have lied to investigators about how many documents he had or which documents they were.
And, he wouldn't have told a friend that he didn't declassify them. They allegedly have him on tape saying that.
Trump "declassifying" something versus it being deemed unclassified for the president are not the same thing. The president doesn't have to follow the markings on the docs, can share with whoever, etc. The doc can still be classified though in the sense because no one else is able to share it because they are responsible for following the policies in place. Congress and any of the other agencies can make whatever rules they want, even the president could make a rule about what can be shared, but that doesn't mean the president has to follow it.
Trump had copies and can share them if he wanted even though they were still classified and the originals could not be shared because the agency possessing the originals still has them marked as classified.
The liberals still are confused about what the docs are. They are notes, copies of original docs, media, etc that contains classified info. Once Trump has them in his possession after he leaves office, they are considered personal and are his property. This was all settled in the Clinton case.
What this doesn't mean is that there were instructions from the president to declassify any of that info. That wasn't done, it also wasn't done in the Clinton case. That info that was on the tapes didn't all of a sudden become unclassified, they remained classified for everyone else. The president doesn't have to follow any of those rules.
(06-12-2023, 10:44 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Had Trump cooperated with the initial requests to return these documents there would be no issue. His obstinance created this mess for himself.
He didn't need to respond to anything. The docs aren't classified. This has already been decided and no reason to return anything. They can ask for anything they want and he can say nope.
There is an interesting side note that all the requests and charges mention docs with classified markings. They don't mention the docs actually being classified. There seems to be some reason for this but unknown what it is.
(06-12-2023, 02:42 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (06-12-2023, 03:49 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]The tape recording does matter. It's the fig leaf they are going to use to legitimize taking him off the ballot in certain states. MI PA WIS AZ etc. If he's convicted purplish states will move to pull his name so he can't get to 270, and they'll have a reasonable constitutional predicate to do it.
What are the odds the one in a million only way these laws are even applicable is the one scenario 45 lays out on tape? My gosh... where's Kelly Anne when u need her?
That isn't the tape, that is the national security aspect. They are charging him with the espionage act so that they can keep from servicing office. They can't keep him from office otherwise and technically he could be elected from jail.
Ur missing it. He might not be on enough state ballots to get to 270.
(06-12-2023, 06:20 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-12-2023, 02:42 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]That isn't the tape, that is the national security aspect. They are charging him with the espionage act so that they can keep from servicing office. They can't keep him from office otherwise and technically he could be elected from jail.
Ur missing it. He might not be on enough state ballots to get to 270.
There's a big legal fight to do that and the cases most likely won't be over in time to remove him from the ballot. The espionage act violations keep him from holding office, so it won't matter even if he did win. The states can't remove him just because they don't like him. I'm sure they will try but they can't unless they already have existing laws in place. As long as you qualify, you are on the ballot.
This gives all those states the ability to remove him as he isn't eligible to hold office.
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(06-12-2023, 06:55 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (06-12-2023, 06:20 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Ur missing it. He might not be on enough state ballots to get to 270.
There's a big legal fight to do that and the cases most likely won't be over in time to remove him from the ballot. The espionage act violations keep him from holding office, so it won't matter even if he did win. The states can't remove him just because they don't like him. I'm sure they will try but they can't unless they already have existing laws in place. As long as you qualify, you are on the ballot.
This gives all those states the ability to remove him as he isn't eligible to hold office.
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Do you 2020 bro?
Wisconsin state law strictly forbids the use of Drop Boxxess, their Supreme Court said so. Didn't matter!
We're not a nation of laws and we never have been. We're a nation of political will and we always will be. Covid created the national will for Doordarshing the vote and whala! A conviction in federal court will see all kinds of Shenanigans.
Moreover, let's say somehow he's on the ballot and he gets the conviction (he's getting convicted) on the espionage act overturned. Right now 63% of independents take this crap seriously.
Trumps not a sympathetic figure. Hes not the hero we deserve he's the bully you Send to roast the bad guys. Seeing him purp walked for his own stupidity is going to drive even more independents away from him.
THERES NO WAY HE GETS TO 270. The country would have to be in the midst of an economic collapse of biblical proportion and even then, history shows us that there's an even greater chance of turning towards big government to solve the problem.
(06-13-2023, 03:42 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-12-2023, 06:55 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]There's a big legal fight to do that and the cases most likely won't be over in time to remove him from the ballot. The espionage act violations keep him from holding office, so it won't matter even if he did win. The states can't remove him just because they don't like him. I'm sure they will try but they can't unless they already have existing laws in place. As long as you qualify, you are on the ballot.
This gives all those states the ability to remove him as he isn't eligible to hold office.
Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk
Do you 2020 bro?
Wisconsin state law strictly forbids the use of Drop Boxxess, their Supreme Court said so. Didn't matter!
We're not a nation of laws and we never have been. We're a nation of political will and we always will be. Covid created the national will for Doordarshing the vote and whala! A conviction in federal court will see all kinds of Shenanigans.
Moreover, let's say somehow he's on the ballot and he gets the conviction (he's getting convicted) on the espionage act overturned. Right now 63% of independents take this crap seriously.
Trumps not a sympathetic figure. Hes not the hero we deserve he's the bully you Send to roast the bad guys. Seeing him purp walked for his own stupidity is going to drive even more independents away from him.
THERES NO WAY HE GETS TO 270. The country would have to be in the midst of an economic collapse of biblical proportion and even then, history shows us that there's an even greater chance of turning towards big government to solve the problem.
South Florida will not be an unanimous jury. If it makes it to trial, one side will have at least 1 person that won't give in.
I understand the law isn't being followed but it takes time to for those cases. The trials won't even be decided until late next year and if there are appeals it will add more time.
They can try to remove him but ballots are printed early, they have tons of time given to mail them in, so you are looking at probably June for them to try and pull that off.
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