(03-01-2025, 07:06 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 03:20 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]So Rubio went on TV saying "the 'economic partnership' is a security deal in its own way."
It isn't at all.
Russia, in 2029, probably: "Hey US, our army is going to invade, and replace Ukraine's government, but don't worry, our new Ukraine government will honor that minerals deal the previous Ukraine government made."
See how that works?
I do see how that works, if TDS affected my sense of reasoning as well.
That was the ultimate reach. Trent Baalke would love you.
You think Russia is suddenly going to start honoring cease fire agreements?
Depends, is the Ukrainian Oompa Loompa going to quit antagonizing him?
(03-01-2025, 12:43 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 12:32 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Trump and Vance behaved inexcusably. Regardless of their opinions of the war in Ukraine or of the Ukraine leader himself, they didn’t comport themselves with any kind of composure or dignity towards what should be considered a strategic ally against Russia. The leader of the US must do better.
Nah, toss that freeloading dwarf out like Gimli during the Battle Of Helm's Deep. Ukraine is not our ally and never will be.
Look, If you add all the assistance Ukraine has gotten since the Russian invasion from the rest of the world it is a fraction of what the US has supplied. Trump and the voters have made it clear we in debt big time, are going to take care of our people first, can no longer be the world's piggy bank and policeman. People that require us to pay them are only pretending to be our friends in order to take advantage of us. We will find out now with the reciprocal tariffs who our real friends are. They raise theirs ours automatically go up, they lower theirs ours go down.
Trump has made clear many times he would not give a security deal to Ukraine. He said it point blank. Zelensky knew this, he also knew he was invited to a meeting to complete a minerals deal that did not include a security agreement. If you look in the background you can see the Ukrainian negotiator put their head in their hands when he started with it. He ambushed Trump on national TV in the oval office. A respectful person would have taken care of this before the cameras began rolling, Zelensky obviously did not. No excuse for this.
I do not want the US to give him a security agreement that would put us at war with Russia based on any decision made by Ukraine's President Zelensky. If you are a fan of this I suggest you should be the first volunteer to be on the plane there to defend them.
(03-01-2025, 07:31 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Depends, is the Ukrainian Oompa Loompa going to quit antagonizing him?
What did he do to "antagonize" them?
He wasn't there when this started in 2014.
(03-01-2025, 12:32 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 12:08 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]On the surface, the Oval Office kerfuffle looked unfavorable towards Trump and Vance. However, Marco Rubio explains there was more to it than the public sees.
https://youtu.be/P4MzGljlpr8?si=sDq8tntm8fDmq-nX
Trump and Vance behaved inexcusably. Regardless of their opinions of the war in Ukraine or of the Ukraine leader himself, they didn’t comport themselves with any kind of composure or dignity towards what should be considered a strategic ally against Russia. The leader of the US must do better.
Zelenskyy: "Have you ever been to Ukraine Mr. Vance?”
Vance: "I’ve eh… I’ve eh… I’ve read the stories and seen the news."
.gif "Laughing")
Traitor Trump was mad because Zelenskyy didn't agree to his BS mineral rights that favors him and his boyfriend Putin so Orange Lord is not use to people telling him to go F himself.
Zelensky is a true leader of his country unlike our traitor of a president.
Appears we have 2 guys volunteering to go defend Ukraine here...
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/norwegia...r-ukraine/
Quote:Norwegian fuel company Haltbakk Bunkers has announced it will cease supplying fuel to U.S. military forces in Norway and American ships docking in Norwegian ports, citing dissatisfaction with recent U.S. policy towards Ukraine. In a strongly worded statement, the company criticised a televised event involving U.S. President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance, referring to it as the “biggest shitshow ever presented live on TV.” Haltbakk Bunkers praised Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for his restraint, accusing the U.S. of “putting on a backstabbing TV show” and declaring that the spectacle “made us sick.”
We could have avoided all this madness and chaos had we not elected a lifelong crook, rapist and conman and his "they're eating the cats, they're eating the dogs" sidekick.
Oh, and this won't be the last company that does something like this because of Trump/Vance/Elon/Putin.
(03-01-2025, 07:42 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 12:43 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Nah, toss that freeloading dwarf out like Gimli during the Battle Of Helm's Deep. Ukraine is not our ally and never will be.
Look, If you add all the assistance Ukraine has gotten since the Russian invasion from the rest of the world it is a fraction of what the US has supplied. Trump and the voters have made it clear we in debt big time, are going to take care of our people first, can no longer be the world's piggy bank and policeman. People that require us to pay them are only pretending to be our friends in order to take advantage of us. We will find out now with the reciprocal tariffs who our real friends are. They raise theirs ours automatically go up, they lower theirs ours go down.
Trump has made clear many times he would not give a security deal to Ukraine. He said it point blank. Zelensky knew this, he also knew he was invited to a meeting to complete a minerals deal that did not include a security agreement. If you look in the background you can see the Ukrainian negotiator put their head in their hands when he started with it. He ambushed Trump on national TV in the oval office. A respectful person would have taken care of this before the cameras began rolling, Zelensky obviously did not. No excuse for this.
I do not want the US to give him a security agreement that would put us at war with Russia based on any decision made by Ukraine's President Zelensky. If you are a fan of this I suggest you should be the first volunteer to be on the plane there to defend them.
It's fine you don't want our country to have a security deal with Ukraine, but, Ukraine has no reason to agree to a cease fire with no security deal. So the war would continue. And that's fine too.
(02-28-2025, 11:04 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2025, 09:20 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Zelensky is the democratically elected leader of a country that wants to resist being absorbed by Russia at all costs.
You can say he's making a mistake, but with Trump in the White House, there is no winning move for him.
After today how is he going to do that? Trump's no dummy he invited him based on an agreement or the invitation would not have been extended. Once here Mr. Z appeared to add conditions that were not agreed to before hand. You could see the surprise on Trump and Vance's faces. That is kind of disrespectful. Best I can say is he wants to resist being absorbed by Russia on his terms.
It was all just a setup. Trump was never going to give Zelensky a dime. He just wanted to fly him across the planet so he could say F-you to his face. Trump had a plan to end the war in one day. His plan, which he never revealed, was to cut off all funding to Ukraine so that they could no longer defend themselves. But he couldn't do that without creating a fallacy that Zelensky is to blame for why he's cutting off Ukraine.
Everything we saw play out yesterday was pre-planned.
(03-01-2025, 10:45 PM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2025, 11:04 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]After today how is he going to do that? Trump's no dummy he invited him based on an agreement or the invitation would not have been extended. Once here Mr. Z appeared to add conditions that were not agreed to before hand. You could see the surprise on Trump and Vance's faces. That is kind of disrespectful. Best I can say is he wants to resist being absorbed by Russia on his terms.
It was all just a setup. Trump was never going to give Zelensky a dime. He just wanted to fly him across the planet so he could say F-you to his face. Trump had a plan to end the war in one day. His plan, which he never revealed, was to cut off all funding to Ukraine so that they could no longer defend themselves. But he couldn't do that without creating a fallacy that Zelensky is to blame for why he's cutting off Ukraine.
Everything we saw play out yesterday was pre-planned.
And it's exactly what we wanted. You are free to go stand in Ukraine if you want to defend them so badly, otherwise you can go back to whatever hole you crawled out of and seethe some more.
(03-01-2025, 10:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 07:42 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Look, If you add all the assistance Ukraine has gotten since the Russian invasion from the rest of the world it is a fraction of what the US has supplied. Trump and the voters have made it clear we in debt big time, are going to take care of our people first, can no longer be the world's piggy bank and policeman. People that require us to pay them are only pretending to be our friends in order to take advantage of us. We will find out now with the reciprocal tariffs who our real friends are. They raise theirs ours automatically go up, they lower theirs ours go down.
Trump has made clear many times he would not give a security deal to Ukraine. He said it point blank. Zelensky knew this, he also knew he was invited to a meeting to complete a minerals deal that did not include a security agreement. If you look in the background you can see the Ukrainian negotiator put their head in their hands when he started with it. He ambushed Trump on national TV in the oval office. A respectful person would have taken care of this before the cameras began rolling, Zelensky obviously did not. No excuse for this.
I do not want the US to give him a security agreement that would put us at war with Russia based on any decision made by Ukraine's President Zelensky. If you are a fan of this I suggest you should be the first volunteer to be on the plane there to defend them.
It's fine you don't want our country to have a security deal with Ukraine, but, Ukraine has no reason to agree to a cease fire with no security deal. So the war would continue. And that's fine too.
Here's your deal: give us 75% of your oil and mineral rights and we'll put American companies there to exploit them and dare Putin to attack us. Or you can go fight Russia on your own dime. Your choice Gimli. That old [BLEEP] you were using to steal our wealth go put out to pasture, it's a new day with America's interest first and primary in America foreign policy.
Trumpists hostility to Zelensky is always telling.
Here's a guy, the Ukranian version of Jon Stewart essentially, fought the establishment, won and stood his ground when invaded against impossible odds, didn't take the easy road out and has done NOTHING but fight tirelessly for the cause of his country for years now.
Is he perfect?
No.
But he has more balls than Trump has in his pinky toe.
And you hate him for it.
Trump and Trumpists are cowardly people who pretend to be strong.
(03-01-2025, 11:13 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 10:45 PM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ]It was all just a setup. Trump was never going to give Zelensky a dime. He just wanted to fly him across the planet so he could say F-you to his face. Trump had a plan to end the war in one day. His plan, which he never revealed, was to cut off all funding to Ukraine so that they could no longer defend themselves. But he couldn't do that without creating a fallacy that Zelensky is to blame for why he's cutting off Ukraine.
Everything we saw play out yesterday was pre-planned.
And it's exactly what we wanted. You are free to go stand in Ukraine if you want to defend them so badly, otherwise you can go back to whatever hole you crawled out of and seethe some more.
(03-01-2025, 10:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's fine you don't want our country to have a security deal with Ukraine, but, Ukraine has no reason to agree to a cease fire with no security deal. So the war would continue. And that's fine too.
Here's your deal: give us 75% of your oil and mineral rights and we'll put American companies there to exploit them and dare Putin to attack us. Or you can go fight Russia on your own dime. Your choice Gimli. That old [BLEEP] you were using to steal our wealth go put out to pasture, it's a new day with America's interest first and primary in America foreign policy.
Actually, Trump cut him a break. It was only 50%. Also, the US will foot the bill for the up front development costs using Ukrainian companies which is not a small amount of capital. This would pump needed jobs and money into their country for rebuilding purposes. The US cut would first be applied to the hundreds of billion dollars we have given them since this war began. If you read those transactions you will find they are actually loans with no repayment timetable. So Trump was giving him a way to repay us and his neighbors for causing this war. Yes, Mr Z caused it.
The agreement with the then Soviet Union said they could govern themselves as long as they DID NOT JOIN NATO. Russia will not allow a NATO country to share a border with them. Putin warned Mr Z if he kept trying to join NATO he would be required to attack to stop it. He did not stop. So at the end of the day Mr Z pooped in his pants and caused this mess. Trump came up with a way to get him out of the trouble he caused his country, stop the bloodshed, loss of land and in return he performed an ambushed in the oval office. What an idiot.
(03-02-2025, 12:19 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 11:13 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]And it's exactly what we wanted. You are free to go stand in Ukraine if you want to defend them so badly, otherwise you can go back to whatever hole you crawled out of and seethe some more.
Here's your deal: give us 75% of your oil and mineral rights and we'll put American companies there to exploit them and dare Putin to attack us. Or you can go fight Russia on your own dime. Your choice Gimli. That old [BLEEP] you were using to steal our wealth go put out to pasture, it's a new day with America's interest first and primary in America foreign policy.
Actually, Trump cut him a break. It was only 50%. Also, the US will foot the bill for the up front development costs using Ukrainian companies which is not a small amount of capital. This would pump needed jobs and money into their country for rebuilding purposes. The US cut would first be applied to the hundreds of billion dollars we have given them since this war began. If you read those transactions you will find they are actually loans with no repayment timetable. So Trump was giving him a way to repay us and his neighbors for causing this war. Yes, Mr Z caused it.
The agreement with the then Soviet Union said they could govern themselves as long as they DID NOT JOIN NATO. Russia will not allow a NATO country to share a border with them. Putin warned Mr Z if he kept trying to join NATO he would be required to attack to stop it. He did not stop. So at the end of the day Mr Z pooped in his pants and caused this mess. Trump came up with a way to get him out of the trouble he caused his country, stop the bloodshed, loss of land and in return he performed an ambushed in the oval office. What an idiot.
Not even a third grader would believe this [BLEEP] post of yours.
Are you trolling or do you actually believe this? I'm shocked of how clueless you truly are. Not sure why you attempt to discuss European politics when your clearly not smart enough to realize whats going on in your own land. MAGAs are very weird
(03-01-2025, 07:21 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 07:06 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I do see how that works, if TDS affected my sense of reasoning as well.
That was the ultimate reach. Trent Baalke would love you.
You think Russia is suddenly going to start honoring cease fire agreements?
Do you think Russia would attack a country we had a security deal with?
I still can't believe you pulled that far-fetched scenario out of your [BLEEP] and then had the temerity to post it.
Put down the TDS, Mike, and think instead of feel.
(03-02-2025, 12:49 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2025, 07:21 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You think Russia is suddenly going to start honoring cease fire agreements?
Do you think Russia would attack a country we had a security deal with?
I still can't believe you pulled that far-fetched scenario out of your [BLEEP] and then had the temerity to post it.
Put down the TDS, Mike, and think instead of feel.
No, I don't think Russia would attack a country we had a security deal with.
I do think they would attack a country that we only had a mineral rights deal with.
(03-02-2025, 09:10 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2025, 12:49 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think Russia would attack a country we had a security deal with?
I still can't believe you pulled that far-fetched scenario out of your [BLEEP] and then had the temerity to post it.
Put down the TDS, Mike, and think instead of feel.
No, I don't think Russia would attack a country we had a security deal with.
I do think they would attack a country that we only had a mineral rights deal with.
If the mineral rights deal is a de facto security deal, and is advertised as such to the world, the Russians wouldn't dare attack.
Thems the bonuses when you're the most powerful country on the planet. We can throw our weight around. I know that's hard to believe after four years of meat puppet and that trainwreck administration which loudly proclaimed the U.S. are pushovers and presented us as the world's doormat, but it's not like that now.
However, I will concede your point if another impotent Democrat gains office. In that case, Ukraine would be the least of our worries and it would be left to Europe to do its duty. But that's doubtful considering the puling, supine ideology they've embraced.
(03-02-2025, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2025, 09:10 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]No, I don't think Russia would attack a country we had a security deal with.
I do think they would attack a country that we only had a mineral rights deal with.
If the mineral rights deal is a de facto security deal, and is advertised as such to the world, the Russians wouldn't dare attack.
Thems the bonuses when you're the most powerful country on the planet. We can throw our weight around. I know that's hard to believe after four years of meat puppet and that trainwreck administration which loudly proclaimed the U.S. are pushovers and presented us as the world's doormat, but it's not like that now.
However, I will concede your point if another impotent Democrat gains office. In that case, Ukraine would be the least of our worries and it would be left to Europe to do its duty. But that's doubtful considering the puling, supine ideology they've embraced.
The first bold , yes we know.
Second one, I agree the mineral rights deal is a de facto security deal, just without
Zelensky the Idiot deciding if the US goes to war.
Last, If Russia and the US were to go to war make no mistake about it, it would be WW3.
Zelensky and Rulers of the Ukraine are idiots that over played there hand with Putin. They embarrassed him on the world stage and got Crimean penensula physically taken from them, their country invaded, people killed and towns destroyed. He then overplayed his hand with Trump and embarrassed him in the oval office. Years from now this event will be studied in universities as how to NOT do this.
(03-02-2025, 12:58 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2025, 12:31 AM)TDOSS Wrote: [ -> ]Not even a third grader would believe this [BLEEP] post of yours.
Are you trolling or do you actually believe this? I'm shocked of how clueless you truly are. Not sure why you attempt to discuss European politics when your clearly not smart enough to realize whats going on in your own land. MAGAs are very weird
LOL ... What a pigeon you are. But in a sense of fairness read this. You actually need to understand how the Russian side feels about the Warsaw pact countries. Without that you will be clueless as you are now. This is a couple articles on the subject and pretty correct. You can find many more on you own time.
https://warontherocks.com/2016/07/promis...t-matters/
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/...ders-early
I understand how Russia feels about the Warsaw pact countries very well. And I also don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about it and as the red-blooded American you claim to be, you shouldn't either.
The countries of the former Warsaw pact are democracies that are free to choose closer relations with Russia if they wish. And they do not wish to do so at this time. The next generation of Russians can learn a lesson and learn to play nice, and maybe they will have better luck with those countries.
(03-02-2025, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2025, 09:10 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]No, I don't think Russia would attack a country we had a security deal with.
I do think they would attack a country that we only had a mineral rights deal with.
If the mineral rights deal is a de facto security deal, and is advertised as such to the world, the Russians wouldn't dare attack.
Thems the bonuses when you're the most powerful country on the planet. We can throw our weight around. I know that's hard to believe after four years of meat puppet and that trainwreck administration which loudly proclaimed the U.S. are pushovers and presented us as the world's doormat, but it's not like that now.
However, I will concede your point if another impotent Democrat gains office. In that case, Ukraine would be the least of our worries and it would be left to Europe to do its duty. But that's doubtful considering the puling, supine ideology they've embraced.
That's exactly the narrative Putin wants you to believe. We will never know exactly why Putin chose to invade the day and the month that he did. But even though you say it's because Biden's a pushover, we know that Biden opened up our stores of weapons to the Ukrainians, and Russian casualties so far are about 2:1 of Ukrainian casualties. So Russia is definitely not happy about Biden's response.
We also know that the Russian media openly hoped for Trump to win in 2016, 2020, and 2024. If one of our parties is tough on Russia, and the other is a doormat, wouldn't Russia hope for the doormat party to win? Doesn't it seem like the doormat is actually Trump, then?
Don't you see the game? Putin is trying to control our political process. And you've bought in 100%. Vote for the right guy, Putin attacks, vote in the wrong guy, Putin doesn't attack. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.