(08-22-2024, 03:16 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-22-2024, 01:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I happen to know a lot of people in the farming and heavy equipment industries that would very much disagree with you (myself included).
The landscaping and light construction industries are relying more on rechargeable, swappable batteries every year. No reason farms and heavy construction can't be next. The level of torque you can get out of a well designed DC motor beats a four stroke diesel pound for pound every day and twice on Sunday.
It's just a matter of packaging the batteries and converting the skeptics.
The batteries, compared to a diesel fuel tank, are more cost and more dead weight. That's a major disadvantage for heavy trucks, but for applications where vehicle weight is less of a limitation like tractors, cranes, etc, it would not matter much.
Landscaping? Well, my son owns a firm. Asked him and yes when it is dry they try to use battery powered trimmer, edgers blowers. He still has to have gas powered ones as it RAINS and the work still has to get done. Rains ruins the equipment. The battery powered mowers are way too heavy for commercial use. They sink into any soft ground as the batteries weight a ton, in addition to the moisture issue with electricity and ruts in the yard irritate his customers. Comparisons are difficult on passenger vehicles as they stopped listing curb weight on the spec sheets. Car and track weighted them and the f150 lighting has a 6,500lb curb weight compared to about 4,500-5,000 gas model F150. This would be magnified the larger you go.
The main reason we are being pushed electricity is you can put a meter on it and control generation easier. Hydrogen is not that way, Norway is putting in refill stations. they are easy for individuals own and operate. Check it out.
https://img.fuelcellsworks.com/wp-conten...x683-1.jpg
The old school oil families do not want the golden goose to die, that is why they are pushing to buy companies like the JEA., also the reason Nexterra bought Florida Power and Light.... LOL
(08-22-2024, 03:16 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-22-2024, 01:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I happen to know a lot of people in the farming and heavy equipment industries that would very much disagree with you (myself included).
The landscaping and light construction industries are relying more on rechargeable, swappable batteries every year. No reason farms and heavy construction can't be next. The level of torque you can get out of a well designed DC motor beats a four stroke diesel pound for pound every day and twice on Sunday.
It's just a matter of packaging the batteries and converting the skeptics.
The batteries, compared to a diesel fuel tank, are more cost and more dead weight. That's a major disadvantage for heavy trucks, but for applications where vehicle weight is less of a limitation like tractors, cranes, etc, it would not matter much.
That's where you are wrong.
First of all, lithium batteries do not perform the same way as a traditional battery. Rather than gradually lose power and get weaker, they will operate until "done" and their output drops like a rock.
Someone working in the middle of the woods on a piece of heavy equipment doesn't need a machine suddenly dying and losing power. Then you have to go get the replacement batteries, transport them to the machine somehow and get them replaced. Time is money and that's too much down time on a job.
The same could be said about a farmer whose battery dies in the middle of a 500 acre field. Again, getting the tractor/combine/etc. serviced and back up and running is just too much time and effort.
Then the time and cost required to re-charge the batteries.
As far as weight, some machines depend on weight for performance and have extra weight built in.
My practice after a day of working on one of my tractors, my excavator or my skid steer is to not only grease it when I'm done, but also top off the fuel tank for various reasons. I can run any one of my machines straight for an 8, 10 or even 12 hour day without running out of fuel. A lithium battery is not capable of doing that, especially in extreme temperatures (hot or cold).
Like it or not, diesel is the lifeblood of this country and will continue to be, despite you liberals hoping and wishing for "green energy".
(08-22-2024, 03:46 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-22-2024, 03:16 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The landscaping and light construction industries are relying more on rechargeable, swappable batteries every year. No reason farms and heavy construction can't be next. The level of torque you can get out of a well designed DC motor beats a four stroke diesel pound for pound every day and twice on Sunday.
It's just a matter of packaging the batteries and converting the skeptics.
The batteries, compared to a diesel fuel tank, are more cost and more dead weight. That's a major disadvantage for heavy trucks, but for applications where vehicle weight is less of a limitation like tractors, cranes, etc, it would not matter much.
Landscaping? Well, my son owns a firm. Asked him and yes when it is dry they try to use battery powered trimmer, edgers blowers. He still has to have gas powered ones as it RAINS and the work still has to get done. Rains ruins the equipment. The battery powered mowers are way too heavy for commercial use. They sink into any soft ground as the batteries weight a ton, in addition to the moisture issue with electricity and ruts in the yard irritate his customers. Comparisons are difficult on passenger vehicles as they stopped listing curb weight on the spec sheets. Car and track weighted them and the f150 lighting has a 6,500lb curb weight compared to about 4,500-5,000 gas model F150. This would be magnified the larger you go.
The main reason we are being pushed electricity is you can put a meter on it and control generation easier. Hydrogen is not that way, Norway is putting in refill stations. they are easy for individuals own and operate. Check it out.
https://img.fuelcellsworks.com/wp-conten...x683-1.jpg
The old school oil families do not want the golden goose to die, that is why they are pushing to buy companies like the JEA., also the reason Nexterra bought Florida Power and Light.... LOL
Yeah hydrogen is going to have a place in applications where the fuel tank can be big but can't be heavy. And lithium batteries are going to have a place where the "fuel tank" can be both big and heavy. Both will have their place. Fewer things will be fossil fuel powered in the future.
They can definitely "meter" hydrogen. They'll make sure you pay, just like any other energy source.
(08-22-2024, 03:52 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-22-2024, 03:16 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The landscaping and light construction industries are relying more on rechargeable, swappable batteries every year. No reason farms and heavy construction can't be next. The level of torque you can get out of a well designed DC motor beats a four stroke diesel pound for pound every day and twice on Sunday.
It's just a matter of packaging the batteries and converting the skeptics.
The batteries, compared to a diesel fuel tank, are more cost and more dead weight. That's a major disadvantage for heavy trucks, but for applications where vehicle weight is less of a limitation like tractors, cranes, etc, it would not matter much.
That's where you are wrong.
First of all, lithium batteries do not perform the same way as a traditional battery. Rather than gradually lose power and get weaker, they will operate until "done" and their output drops like a rock.
Someone working in the middle of the woods on a piece of heavy equipment doesn't need a machine suddenly dying and losing power. Then you have to go get the replacement batteries, transport them to the machine somehow and get them replaced. Time is money and that's too much down time on a job.
The same could be said about a farmer whose battery dies in the middle of a 500 acre field. Again, getting the tractor/combine/etc. serviced and back up and running is just too much time and effort.
Then the time and cost required to re-charge the batteries.
As far as weight, some machines depend on weight for performance and have extra weight built in.
My practice after a day of working on one of my tractors, my excavator or my skid steer is to not only grease it when I'm done, but also top off the fuel tank for various reasons. I can run any one of my machines straight for an 8, 10 or even 12 hour day without running out of fuel. A lithium battery is not capable of doing that, especially in extreme temperatures (hot or cold).
Like it or not, diesel is the lifeblood of this country and will continue to be, despite you liberals hoping and wishing for "green energy".
There are other battery technologies coming online like sodium which will have less of the problems of storage decay that lithium has.
Lithium batteries exist that can drain continually for 12 or even 24 hours. In general any battery tech can discharge just as long or as fast as it charges.
A well prepared worker will have a trailer full of spare, charged batteries. Your emergency response forestry guys will be the last ones to switch over for sure, but a forestry worker who can plan their day, and who can leave a task and come back later, will be able to make good use of battery powered equipment.
(08-22-2024, 06:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-22-2024, 03:46 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Landscaping? Well, my son owns a firm. Asked him and yes when it is dry they try to use battery powered trimmer, edgers blowers. He still has to have gas powered ones as it RAINS and the work still has to get done. Rains ruins the equipment. The battery powered mowers are way too heavy for commercial use. They sink into any soft ground as the batteries weight a ton, in addition to the moisture issue with electricity and ruts in the yard irritate his customers. Comparisons are difficult on passenger vehicles as they stopped listing curb weight on the spec sheets. Car and track weighted them and the f150 lighting has a 6,500lb curb weight compared to about 4,500-5,000 gas model F150. This would be magnified the larger you go.
The main reason we are being pushed electricity is you can put a meter on it and control generation easier. Hydrogen is not that way, Norway is putting in refill stations. they are easy for individuals own and operate. Check it out.
https://img.fuelcellsworks.com/wp-conten...x683-1.jpg
The old school oil families do not want the golden goose to die, that is why they are pushing to buy companies like the JEA., also the reason Nexterra bought Florida Power and Light.... LOL
Yeah hydrogen is going to have a place in applications where the fuel tank can be big but can't be heavy. And lithium batteries are going to have a place where the "fuel tank" can be both big and heavy. Both will have their place. Fewer things will be fossil fuel powered in the future.
They can definitely "meter" hydrogen. They'll make sure you pay, just like any other energy source.
You should tour an Amerigas plant is quite interesting.
Diversity isn't a strength, and it never was
The Fed at Jackson Hole meeting just said his confidence has grown inflation is on a path to 2% and unemployment is rising. They have a dual mandate from congress to stabilize prices (not reduce) and employment. Since unemployment is rising they do not wish more of this. This on the heels of the government "adjusting" past jobs data. They adjusted the last 12 months the largest in history 800,000+ jobs. So the country created over 800,000 less jobs than thought. This is the largest revision in our history, so the current administration cannot count well?
Additionally, they mentioned in politically correct terms the impact of migration expanding the job market. Unemployment of these migrants fell about 1.2 million while US born declined 1.2 million. This has become very complicated as the government has two numbers for this migration. It is either 7 or 15 million over the last 4 years, depending upon which department you want to use. Either way it is about the size of the population of Arizona. Bottom line the jobs are still there but the "Migrants" have been replacing full time American workers and they have been being paid under the table.