(09-08-2023, 04:32 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately voters are like politicians, they become gears in the machine rather than individual voices of reason. This is why a strong third party needs to emerge. At least for a little while. The two party system has become a duopoly.
100%
(09-08-2023, 03:53 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2023, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]"The right" and millions upon millions of sensible voters on the left had a pump the brakes attitude.
As usual, the loudest voices in the room get amplified and the cries of the "defund" cuckoo-birds got the attention.
That doesn't mean they represent a majority of Dem/Left voters.
There are years worth of posts from me in the various "death by police" threads saying better vetting of recruits and reformed training in use of lethal force were the way forward. Sure, plenty of police dept's around the country could be budgeted more wisely, but you never heard me calling to defund or dismantle them. Just fix the problems. And many of them work diligently to do so in a variety of ways.
Most folks are wise enough to value public safety beyond such a ridiculous concept as defunding police.
No such thing really.
Cute.
If you asked 60 million Biden voters (since you don't think there were 81 mil) if they wanted to defund or dismantle the police dept in their town, how many do you think would actually want that?
(09-08-2023, 04:32 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately voters are like politicians, they become gears in the machine rather than individual voices of reason. This is why a strong third party needs to emerge. At least for a little while. The two party system has become a duopoly.
Tried it in the 90s with Perot and Ventura and Buchanan. There are reasons it won't happen.
Every race for every seat is a two candidate race, whether it's an R vs D race in FL or a D vs I race in VT. It's possible that we could get a regional third party like a Bernie party in New England or a Cheney party in the mountain west but that's not desirable. That woild be just more division.
First we should work on creating space for 3 way races for Congress. We could use ranked choice voting, or multi member districts. Then maybe (but only maybe) those people will vote amend the constitution to make 3 way races for President possible and desirable.
But those are both longshots. We're stuck with 2 parties until ranked choice voting or multi member districts come. So what should we do? We have to join our parties and care about them. And work for them to be better. Standing detached and saying "they both suck" ... how does that solve anything?
(09-08-2023, 07:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2023, 04:32 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately voters are like politicians, they become gears in the machine rather than individual voices of reason. This is why a strong third party needs to emerge. At least for a little while. The two party system has become a duopoly.
100%
(09-08-2023, 03:53 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]No such thing really.
Cute.
If you asked 60 million Biden voters (since you don't think there were 81 mil) if they wanted to defund or dismantle the police dept in their town, how many do you think would actually want that?
Some do. Definitely. Others accept the lie that defund just means reform. There is no reason to conflate those words unless you're teaching a master class on the Overton Window.
(09-08-2023, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2023, 12:36 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Sure but it was all fun and games to pound the podium and rail against the police until she needed them. If memory severs me correct, I believe it was the right saying pump the brakes. We need the police but let’s get rid of the few bad apples.
"The right" and millions upon millions of sensible voters on the left had a pump the brakes attitude.
As usual, the loudest voices in the room get amplified and the cries of the "defund" cuckoo-birds got the attention.
That doesn't mean they represent a majority of Dem/Left voters.
There are years worth of posts from me in the various "death by police" threads saying better vetting of recruits and reformed training in use of lethal force were the way forward. Sure, plenty of police dept's around the country could be budgeted more wisely, but you never heard me calling to defund or dismantle them. Just fix the problems. And many of them work diligently to do so in a variety of ways.
Most folks are wise enough to value public safety beyond such a ridiculous concept as defunding police.
Just because you were a voice of reason does not change the fact that the not Fox News agencies went all in on the defund the police rhetoric. You know this to be true and you know your party embraced the narrative. Until you and many like minded sensible democrats start challenging your party this is what you get. Many republicans have left their party and went Libertarian. We will not see a change until moderate democrats start openly challenging the far left party leader’s currently in charge of your party.
(09-08-2023, 07:58 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2023, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]"The right" and millions upon millions of sensible voters on the left had a pump the brakes attitude.
As usual, the loudest voices in the room get amplified and the cries of the "defund" cuckoo-birds got the attention.
That doesn't mean they represent a majority of Dem/Left voters.
There are years worth of posts from me in the various "death by police" threads saying better vetting of recruits and reformed training in use of lethal force were the way forward. Sure, plenty of police dept's around the country could be budgeted more wisely, but you never heard me calling to defund or dismantle them. Just fix the problems. And many of them work diligently to do so in a variety of ways.
Most folks are wise enough to value public safety beyond such a ridiculous concept as defunding police.
Just because you were a voice of reason does not change the fact that the not Fox News agencies went all in on the defund the police rhetoric. You know this to be true and you know your party embraced the narrative. Until you and many like minded sensible democrats start challenging your party this is what you get. Many republicans have left their party and went Libertarian. We will not see a change until moderate democrats start openly challenging the far left party leader’s currently in charge of your party.
The media outlets (traditional and social) push narratives that keep viewers watching, more than they push any particular agenda. They are looking for engagement to sell ads. Their agenda is to have the same or better market share and viewership next quarter.
Yes, the MSM pushed defund the police as a narrative. People engaged with that even though they disagreed. Biden ran against the idea. He was on the ballot. The MSM wasn't.
(09-08-2023, 07:58 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2023, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]"The right" and millions upon millions of sensible voters on the left had a pump the brakes attitude.
As usual, the loudest voices in the room get amplified and the cries of the "defund" cuckoo-birds got the attention.
That doesn't mean they represent a majority of Dem/Left voters.
There are years worth of posts from me in the various "death by police" threads saying better vetting of recruits and reformed training in use of lethal force were the way forward. Sure, plenty of police dept's around the country could be budgeted more wisely, but you never heard me calling to defund or dismantle them. Just fix the problems. And many of them work diligently to do so in a variety of ways.
Most folks are wise enough to value public safety beyond such a ridiculous concept as defunding police.
Just because you were a voice of reason does not change the fact that the not Fox News agencies went all in on the defund the police rhetoric. You know this to be true and you know your party embraced the narrative. Until you and many like minded sensible democrats start challenging your party this is what you get. Many republicans have left their party and went Libertarian. We will not see a change until moderate democrats start openly challenging the far left party leader’s currently in charge of your party.
I'm independent so it's not my party - but I appreciate the sentiment of the post. Even if I believe many actual voters of the party were not all in on that rhetoric as much as the media would lead you to believe.
I think sensibly minded folk from both side of the aisle need to capitulate change.
If we are to rid ourselves of so much ridiculous extreme [BLEEP]-for-tat it will need to be a wave of such folk calling for an end to the silliness.
(09-08-2023, 07:31 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2023, 07:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]100%
Cute.
If you asked 60 million Biden voters (since you don't think there were 81 mil) if they wanted to defund or dismantle the police dept in their town, how many do you think would actually want that?
Some do. Definitely. Others accept the lie that defund just means reform. There is no reason to conflate those words unless you're teaching a master class on the Overton Window.
I didn't conflate [BLEEP] - not one bit - but great job on not offering any semblance of an answer
It's not always about you, dog. You love to hide behind "words in your mouth" when most of us are talking about concepts or movements. You're not part of that movement. Great job. You still support it. Our economy sucks right now because Biden is the lesser of two evils. People are dying at greater rates in inner cities because leftist DAs aren't prosecuting crime and cops are being hamstrung. Sure glad you never said "defund the police!" You support people that did with your vote. I don't give a [BLEEP] about your words.
The economy would be suffering just as much with Trump in charge.
We have a trilemma right now. Higher interest rates are punishing poor and lower middle class people and tamping down consumer spending. We have to either raise taxes, or reduce spending, or lower interest rates and accept some inflation. Biden has been doing his best to delay the decision. Trump would be doing the same.
(09-09-2023, 08:32 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The economy would be suffering just as much with Trump in charge.
We have a trilemma right now. Higher interest rates are punishing poor and lower middle class people and tamping down consumer spending. We have to either raise taxes, or reduce spending, or lower interest rates and accept some inflation. Biden has been doing his best to delay the decision. Trump would be doing the same.
You really are a broken record. For once, forget about Trump and let's have a meaningful discussion about the
current President and what he is or is not doing for the economy.
(09-09-2023, 08:10 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It's not always about you, dog. You love to hide behind "words in your mouth" when most of us are talking about concepts or movements. You're not part of that movement. Great job. You still support it. Our economy sucks right now because Biden is the lesser of two evils. People are dying at greater rates in inner cities because leftist DAs aren't prosecuting crime and cops are being hamstrung. Sure glad you never said "defund the police!" You support people that did with your vote. I don't give a [BLEEP] about your words.
Way to miss the point, dog.
Not about me. I'm attempting to point out there there many millions of Dem voters out there that feel the same way I do about it and you're either willfully ignoring that or being stupid.
Furthering that - those millions vote locally according to the sensibility I've laid out - and most of them now live in cities and towns where the police were never defunded.
A few posters here love to point out 3 US cities that actually have a problem with this horse [BLEEP] and attempt to pretend it is a pandemic in out nation when it's not.
Sucks for the ppl in those few places and I hope they got the lesson they needed to learn about voting locally based on some flavor-of-the-day policy tripe. But this crap isn't rampant and it isn't indicative of a typical Democrat voter.
Just something fun to hate/rant on for the right bent infotainment set.
(09-09-2023, 09:26 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2023, 09:15 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]You really are a broken record. For once, forget about Trump and let's have a meaningful discussion about the current President and what he is or is not doing for the economy.
The post isn't actually about Trump. I am just disagreeing with L2L when he says, "Our economy sucks right now because Biden is the lesser of two evils." Thats wrong. The economy sucks because of the trilemma.
You're wrong, as usual. Our economy is where it is because Biden cares more about the profits of the elite than us. It's that simple. For all of Trump's flaws, he was fighting the elite. Sure, not always. Not even for our benefit. He's just a narcissist that wants to be loved. There was still corruption. It wasn't this, though. Biden is for sale and you're a big dummy to ignore it.
(09-09-2023, 10:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2023, 08:10 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It's not always about you, dog. You love to hide behind "words in your mouth" when most of us are talking about concepts or movements. You're not part of that movement. Great job. You still support it. Our economy sucks right now because Biden is the lesser of two evils. People are dying at greater rates in inner cities because leftist DAs aren't prosecuting crime and cops are being hamstrung. Sure glad you never said "defund the police!" You support people that did with your vote. I don't give a [BLEEP] about your words.
Way to miss the point, dog.
Not about me. I'm attempting to point out there there many millions of Dem voters out there that feel the same way I do about it and you're either willfully ignoring that or being stupid.
Furthering that - those millions vote locally according to the sensibility I've laid out - and most of them now live in cities and towns where the police were never defunded.
A few posters here love to point out 3 US cities that actually have a problem with this horse [BLEEP] and attempt to pretend it is a pandemic in out nation when it's not.
Sucks for the ppl in those few places and I hope they got the lesson they needed to learn about voting locally based on some flavor-of-the-day policy tripe. But this crap isn't rampant and it isn't indicative of a typical Democrat voter.
Just something fun to hate/rant on for the right bent infotainment set.
Sigh. Same old [BLEEP]. How many ways do you think you're wrong in that post? I'll start getting into the numbers if I get bored later. Not that it will matter.
(09-09-2023, 10:37 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2023, 09:26 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The post isn't actually about Trump. I am just disagreeing with L2L when he says, "Our economy sucks right now because Biden is the lesser of two evils." Thats wrong. The economy sucks because of the trilemma.
You're wrong, as usual. Our economy is where it is because Biden cares more about the profits of the elite than us. It's that simple. For all of Trump's flaws, he was fighting the elite. Sure, not always. Not even for our benefit. He's just a narcissist that wants to be loved. There was still corruption. It wasn't this, though. Biden is for sale and you're a big dummy to ignore it.
Those are some big claims. What evidence do you have? What policy decision by Trump showed that he cared about the people more than the profits of the elites? When did Biden reverse that policy?
What evidence do you have that she will ban anything next? That's a question on behalf of all stupid people.
Don't mind me. Just sharing more misinformation.
![[Image: b6219c608254d854f63f15c888922f11.jpg]](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230909/b6219c608254d854f63f15c888922f11.jpg)
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
This is a prime example of a politician attempting to use the force of government for purely political purposes. No surprise it came from Fauxcohontas.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/el...cc7fd&ei=9
...Warren, a member of the Armed Services Committee, said she also wants the Defense Department to look into its contractual relationship with the company...
I'm fairly certain I posted here before that the left is targeting Musk to prevent him from getting government contracts. Fauxcohontas revealed the obvious.
![[Image: e04600b0f4b3abd6f5b433d7e8952996.jpg]](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230909/e04600b0f4b3abd6f5b433d7e8952996.jpg)