(04-14-2023, 01:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 12:54 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The one that will last the longest in my family is his abandonment of Afghanistan. The anger that my close veteran relatives feel over the mangling of our withdrawal is something that will not fade. It's a shame in our generation on par with the shame over the fall of Saigon and the images are just as imprinted in our memories as those helicopters over the embassy are to my father's generation. You probably don't comprehend that feeling in your bubble.
No, I also felt some kind of way about our Afghan "allies" yielding to the Taliban so quickly, not giving us enough time for an orderly exit. I feel really bad that a lot of those guys thought we would take them with us, and then we didn't. Those two things go together, of course. When it became clear that we weren't going to process their visas in time, they kinda stopped defending the presidential palace and airport in response. And if we had processed more of their visas more expeditiously, then more of them would have been here when we were wrapping up, not there, and they also wouldn't have provided gate security during our evacuation.
I don't really blame Biden for that, sorry.
It was up to the Afghans to form a mass of people who could fight the Taliban and who wished to remain in Afghanistan for that fight for the rest of their lives. We had a mass of Afghans like that when we first got there. But at some point before Bush left office, that was gone.
Hey, I heard Biden is putting together his own dance team.. They're called the 'I Didn't Do it' Dance Troupe..
Bet they have an opening for ya..
Multiple positions open, bring Marty with ya..
![[Image: looney-tunes-bugs-bunny.gif]](https://s12.gifyu.com/images/looney-tunes-bugs-bunny.gif)
(04-14-2023, 01:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 12:54 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The one that will last the longest in my family is his abandonment of Afghanistan. The anger that my close veteran relatives feel over the mangling of our withdrawal is something that will not fade. It's a shame in our generation on par with the shame over the fall of Saigon and the images are just as imprinted in our memories as those helicopters over the embassy are to my father's generation. You probably don't comprehend that feeling in your bubble.
No, I also felt some kind of way about our Afghan "allies" yielding to the Taliban so quickly, not giving us enough time for an orderly exit. I feel really bad that a lot of those guys thought we would take them with us, and then we didn't. Those two things go together, of course. When it became clear that we weren't going to process their visas in time, they kinda stopped defending the presidential palace and airport in response. And if we had processed more of their visas more expeditiously, then more of them would have been here when we were wrapping up, not there, and they also wouldn't have provided gate security during our evacuation.
I don't really blame Biden for that, sorry.
It was up to the Afghans to form a mass of people who could fight the Taliban and who wished to remain in Afghanistan for that fight for the rest of their lives. We had a mass of Afghans like that when we first got there. But at some point before Bush left office, that was gone.
Biden was warned against this withdrawal. He however went all in on getting the troops out on the anniversary of 9-11. This [BLEEP] was more interested in a photo-op concerning the date of the withdrawal than anything else. I could go on and pick apart more of your response however every time I think about that fact and that fact alone I lose any and all composure I may have. What is more infuriating to me is not one single media outlet that I have seen has even questioned this.
(04-14-2023, 01:55 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 01:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]No, I also felt some kind of way about our Afghan "allies" yielding to the Taliban so quickly, not giving us enough time for an orderly exit. I feel really bad that a lot of those guys thought we would take them with us, and then we didn't. Those two things go together, of course. When it became clear that we weren't going to process their visas in time, they kinda stopped defending the presidential palace and airport in response. And if we had processed more of their visas more expeditiously, then more of them would have been here when we were wrapping up, not there, and they also wouldn't have provided gate security during our evacuation.
I don't really blame Biden for that, sorry.
It was up to the Afghans to form a mass of people who could fight the Taliban and who wished to remain in Afghanistan for that fight for the rest of their lives. We had a mass of Afghans like that when we first got there. But at some point before Bush left office, that was gone.
Biden was warned against this withdrawal. He however went all in on getting the troops out on the anniversary of 9-11. This [BLEEP] was more interested in a photo-op concerning the date of the withdrawal than anything else. I could go on and pick apart more of your response however every time I think about that fact and that fact alone I lose any and all composure I may have. What is more infuriating to me is not one single media outlet that I have seen has even questioned this.
I'm sorry it makes you so mad. You know people stop thinking straight when they get mad.
But let's try to bring you back. He was warned. What should he have done with that warning? Paused? Should we still be there now? What about the fact that Trump signed a treaty promising to leave by a certain time? Could that have been renegotiated? Or should we have simply violated it?
How do I get that job?
(04-14-2023, 12:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 08:18 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You're dreaming, bro. Who on this board has changed their opinion on Trump since the last election. People who have their minds made up about him (and they are out there), are doubling down on their cognitive dissonance. At the very best, you are hoping for Trump fatigue. Even then, the establishment HATES Trump and managed to manufacture hundreds of thousands of votes in the last election. You think they can't do it again? Sure, it will take a couple weeks after the election is over, but they'll get there. The moderates have been conditioned to accept these types of shenanigans, so who's going to complain about it with a big enough voice to change anything?
Fox News is about to lose a $1.6 Billion dollar lawsuit over that claim.
If they can provide any kind of evidence for it during the next month or two, they might win that lawsuit, and not have to pay. But still nothing.
So why are you still saying this? You want to get sued as well?
You have the memory of a goldfish when it's convenient. I've discussed this no less than 4 different occasions with you, and you have no answer for the numerical discrepancies. There is a difference between proof and highly probably. You're just too easily manipulated to use your brain for critical thought... except for that great idea you had about South Korea encouraging North Koreans to come over. That was deeply insightful................ still in awe.........
(04-14-2023, 03:01 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]How do I get that job?
(04-14-2023, 12:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Fox News is about to lose a $1.6 Billion dollar lawsuit over that claim.
If they can provide any kind of evidence for it during the next month or two, they might win that lawsuit, and not have to pay. But still nothing.
So why are you still saying this? You want to get sued as well?
You have the memory of a goldfish when it's convenient. I've discussed this no less than 4 different occasions with you, and you have no answer for the numerical discrepancies. There is a difference between proof and highly probably. You're just too easily manipulated to use your brain for critical thought... except for that great idea you had about South Korea encouraging North Koreans to come over. That was deeply insightful................ still in awe.........
You have to know The Dalai Lama..
(04-14-2023, 02:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 01:55 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Biden was warned against this withdrawal. He however went all in on getting the troops out on the anniversary of 9-11. This [BLEEP] was more interested in a photo-op concerning the date of the withdrawal than anything else. I could go on and pick apart more of your response however every time I think about that fact and that fact alone I lose any and all composure I may have. What is more infuriating to me is not one single media outlet that I have seen has even questioned this.
I'm sorry it makes you so mad. You know people stop thinking straight when they get mad.
But let's try to bring you back. He was warned. What should he have done with that warning? Paused? Should we still be there now? What about the fact that Trump signed a treaty promising to leave by a certain time? Could that have been renegotiated? Or should we have simply violated it?
Man you're a [BLEEP] bag.
(04-14-2023, 02:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 01:55 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Biden was warned against this withdrawal. He however went all in on getting the troops out on the anniversary of 9-11. This [BLEEP] was more interested in a photo-op concerning the date of the withdrawal than anything else. I could go on and pick apart more of your response however every time I think about that fact and that fact alone I lose any and all composure I may have. What is more infuriating to me is not one single media outlet that I have seen has even questioned this.
I'm sorry it makes you so mad. You know people stop thinking straight when they get mad.
But let's try to bring you back. He was warned. What should he have done with that warning? Paused? Should we still be there now? What about the fact that Trump signed a treaty promising to leave by a certain time? Could that have been renegotiated? Or should we have simply violated it?
Again you show your ignorance when it comes to military matters. You also let us know that you did not read or perhaps understand the terms of the agreement Trump put in play. Regardless of that, the fact that Biden’s only objective in the withdrawal was to get it done on the anniversary of 9-11 regardless of any recommendations from HIS own advisers for the optics of getting us out on September 11 for a [BLEEP] photo op should infuriate you and every single American. Your inability to comprehend how insulting that is in the wake of American lives lost on this cluster [BLEEP] of a plan is exactly why you and I will always be at odds. For the love of God Mike, imagine if that was your child or a relative losing their life on a tarmac so the president could stand in front of a camera spouting “look what we did on the anniversary of 9-11”.
(04-14-2023, 07:46 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 02:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry it makes you so mad. You know people stop thinking straight when they get mad.
But let's try to bring you back. He was warned. What should he have done with that warning? Paused? Should we still be there now? What about the fact that Trump signed a treaty promising to leave by a certain time? Could that have been renegotiated? Or should we have simply violated it?
Again you show your ignorance when it comes to military matters. You also let us know that you did not read or perhaps understand the terms of the agreement Trump put in play. Regardless of that, the fact that Biden’s only objective in the withdrawal was to get it done on the anniversary of 9-11 regardless of any recommendations from HIS own advisers for the optics of getting us out on September 11 for a [BLEEP] photo op should infuriate you and every single American. Your inability to comprehend how insulting that is in the wake of American lives lost on this cluster [BLEEP] of a plan is exactly why you and I will always be at odds. For the love of God Mike, imagine if that was your child or a relative losing their life on a tarmac so the president could stand in front of a camera spouting “look what we did on the anniversary of 9-11”.
Don't waste your breath.. Democrats will democrat.
(04-14-2023, 07:46 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 02:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry it makes you so mad. You know people stop thinking straight when they get mad.
But let's try to bring you back. He was warned. What should he have done with that warning? Paused? Should we still be there now? What about the fact that Trump signed a treaty promising to leave by a certain time? Could that have been renegotiated? Or should we have simply violated it?
Again you show your ignorance when it comes to military matters. You also let us know that you did not read or perhaps understand the terms of the agreement Trump put in play. Regardless of that, the fact that Biden’s only objective in the withdrawal was to get it done on the anniversary of 9-11 regardless of any recommendations from HIS own advisers for the optics of getting us out on September 11 for a [BLEEP] photo op should infuriate you and every single American. Your inability to comprehend how insulting that is in the wake of American lives lost on this cluster [BLEEP] of a plan is exactly why you and I will always be at odds. For the love of God Mike, imagine if that was your child or a relative losing their life on a tarmac so the president could stand in front of a camera spouting “look what we did on the anniversary of 9-11”.
Ok, so if American troops were still there now, you wouldn't be complaining? You're certain?
(04-14-2023, 03:01 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]How do I get that job?
(04-14-2023, 12:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Fox News is about to lose a $1.6 Billion dollar lawsuit over that claim.
If they can provide any kind of evidence for it during the next month or two, they might win that lawsuit, and not have to pay. But still nothing.
So why are you still saying this? You want to get sued as well?
You have the memory of a goldfish when it's convenient. I've discussed this no less than 4 different occasions with you, and you have no answer for the numerical discrepancies. There is a difference between proof and highly probably. You're just too easily manipulated to use your brain for critical thought... except for that great idea you had about South Korea encouraging North Koreans to come over. That was deeply insightful................ still in awe.........
You're missing the point.
You believe there is a "high probability." Fine. But Tucker does not. Rupert does not. And many others, we have text messages of them saying they didn't believe any of this stuff that they said on the air. And that's why they are getting sued.
But my point stands. Why are so sure you've figured something out that Rupert Murdoch can't figure out? Not just that he can't figure it out, but that he doesn't even believe? Rupert has 1.6 billion reasons to say he believes these ideas, and in his deposition, he admitted he did not. What do you see that a highly motivated Rupert Murdoch doesn't see? Thats rhetorical. You don't need to explain it a 5th time.
(04-14-2023, 01:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 12:54 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The one that will last the longest in my family is his abandonment of Afghanistan. The anger that my close veteran relatives feel over the mangling of our withdrawal is something that will not fade. It's a shame in our generation on par with the shame over the fall of Saigon and the images are just as imprinted in our memories as those helicopters over the embassy are to my father's generation. You probably don't comprehend that feeling in your bubble.
No, I also felt some kind of way about our Afghan "allies" yielding to the Taliban so quickly, not giving us enough time for an orderly exit. I feel really bad that a lot of those guys thought we would take them with us, and then we didn't. Those two things go together, of course. When it became clear that we weren't going to process their visas in time, they kinda stopped defending the presidential palace and airport in response. And if we had processed more of their visas more expeditiously, then more of them would have been here when we were wrapping up, not there, and they also wouldn't have provided gate security during our evacuation.
I don't really blame Biden for that, sorry.
It was up to the Afghans to form a mass of people who could fight the Taliban and who wished to remain in Afghanistan for that fight for the rest of their lives. We had a mass of Afghans like that when we first got there. But at some point before Bush left office, that was gone.
The 20 years of conflict after the US invasion devastated Afghanistan, with more than 40,000 civilians killed in attacks by both the Taliban and the US-led forces. At least 64,000 Afghan military and police and more than 3,500 international soldiers were also killed.
Hell, the ANA (Afghan National Army) that we trained to fight alongside us barely showed up when we were there. They would often run away or hide when SHTF. You think they're going to fight the Taliban on their own? The answer to that would be no.
Our government knew all of this. The manner in which that whole debacle was handled is 100% on the shoulders of the people who made the decision to let it happen. As the POTUS and CIC of our Armed Forces, Biden is the final authority so it's on him.
That man has failed this country at every level.
Did anyone see the pudding attack? Lol They are going at governor DeSantis.
(04-14-2023, 10:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 07:46 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Again you show your ignorance when it comes to military matters. You also let us know that you did not read or perhaps understand the terms of the agreement Trump put in play. Regardless of that, the fact that Biden’s only objective in the withdrawal was to get it done on the anniversary of 9-11 regardless of any recommendations from HIS own advisers for the optics of getting us out on September 11 for a [BLEEP] photo op should infuriate you and every single American. Your inability to comprehend how insulting that is in the wake of American lives lost on this cluster [BLEEP] of a plan is exactly why you and I will always be at odds. For the love of God Mike, imagine if that was your child or a relative losing their life on a tarmac so the president could stand in front of a camera spouting “look what we did on the anniversary of 9-11”.
Ok, so if American troops were still there now, you wouldn't be complaining? You're certain?
That is not the conversation we’re having. Don’t change the subject.
(04-14-2023, 11:29 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 01:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]No, I also felt some kind of way about our Afghan "allies" yielding to the Taliban so quickly, not giving us enough time for an orderly exit. I feel really bad that a lot of those guys thought we would take them with us, and then we didn't. Those two things go together, of course. When it became clear that we weren't going to process their visas in time, they kinda stopped defending the presidential palace and airport in response. And if we had processed more of their visas more expeditiously, then more of them would have been here when we were wrapping up, not there, and they also wouldn't have provided gate security during our evacuation.
I don't really blame Biden for that, sorry.
It was up to the Afghans to form a mass of people who could fight the Taliban and who wished to remain in Afghanistan for that fight for the rest of their lives. We had a mass of Afghans like that when we first got there. But at some point before Bush left office, that was gone.
The 20 years of conflict after the US invasion devastated Afghanistan, with more than 40,000 civilians killed in attacks by both the Taliban and the US-led forces. At least 64,000 Afghan military and police and more than 3,500 international soldiers were also killed.
Hell, the ANA (Afghan National Army) that we trained to fight alongside us barely showed up when we were there. They would often run away or hide when SHTF. You think they're going to fight the Taliban on their own? The answer to that would be no.
Our government knew all of this. The manner in which that whole debacle was handled is 100% on the shoulders of the people who made the decision to let it happen. As the POTUS and CIC of our Armed Forces, Biden is the final authority so it's on him.
That man has failed this country at every level.
I dont disagree with any of that. What better choice could Biden have made?
(04-15-2023, 08:31 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 10:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so if American troops were still there now, you wouldn't be complaining? You're certain?
That is not the conversation we’re having. Don’t change the subject.
That's not changing the subject. I'm asking you to commit to the point you're making. If you're so sure Biden made a mistake, you should not only be able to explain what the mistake was, but also explain why things would better if a different decision was made. Otherwise, all you've proven is Biden was in a bad situation. He may have made the best possible choice out of a bunch of bad choices. You have to demonstrate that a better choice was available.
(04-15-2023, 09:57 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2023, 11:29 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]The 20 years of conflict after the US invasion devastated Afghanistan, with more than 40,000 civilians killed in attacks by both the Taliban and the US-led forces. At least 64,000 Afghan military and police and more than 3,500 international soldiers were also killed.
Hell, the ANA (Afghan National Army) that we trained to fight alongside us barely showed up when we were there. They would often run away or hide when SHTF. You think they're going to fight the Taliban on their own? The answer to that would be no.
Our government knew all of this. The manner in which that whole debacle was handled is 100% on the shoulders of the people who made the decision to let it happen. As the POTUS and CIC of our Armed Forces, Biden is the final authority so it's on him.
That man has failed this country at every level.
I dont disagree with any of that. What better choice could Biden have made?
(04-15-2023, 08:31 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]That is not the conversation we’re having. Don’t change the subject.
That's not changing the subject. I'm asking you to commit to the point you're making. If you're so sure Biden made a mistake, you should not only be able to explain what the mistake was, but also explain why things would better if a different decision was made. Otherwise, all you've proven is Biden was in a bad situation. He may have made the best possible choice out of a bunch of bad choices. You have to demonstrate that a better choice was available.
I have committed to the point I am making. One more time, Biden went against ALL of the advice he was given by the experts HE chose to advise him for the soul purpose of being able to stand in front of the camera’s and say look what I did on the anniversary of 9-11. That is what happened and people died. You still refuse to hold him accountable for that debacle. I’m done you can have the last word.
(04-15-2023, 12:05 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2023, 09:57 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I dont disagree with any of that. What better choice could Biden have made?
That's not changing the subject. I'm asking you to commit to the point you're making. If you're so sure Biden made a mistake, you should not only be able to explain what the mistake was, but also explain why things would better if a different decision was made. Otherwise, all you've proven is Biden was in a bad situation. He may have made the best possible choice out of a bunch of bad choices. You have to demonstrate that a better choice was available.
I have committed to the point I am making. One more time, Biden went against ALL of the advice he was given by the experts HE chose to advise him for the soul purpose of being able to stand in front of the camera’s and say look what I did on the anniversary of 9-11. That is what happened and people died. You still refuse to hold him accountable for that debacle. I’m done you can have the last word.
What day should they have wrapped up? Would October 11 have been enough time?